8K discussion thread

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by KRW1

I think that's inevitable. You could have said the same thing in 2008 about Bluray and been spot on. I reckon bluray will do a lot of people for the next few years at least.

Then we'll be talking about 8k but I'm sceptical about a physical version but then I was about 4k as well so the lesson I've learnt is that whatever you think is going to happen, probably won't. I never thought I'd be able to buy some new albums on cassette tape (the worst of all formats!) in 2018, that's for sure.

Come on, we (of certain ages) all know 8-track was WAY worse than cassette. I remember some cassette decks having Dolby settings to handle hiss and compression issues.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Come on, we (of certain ages) all know 8-track was WAY worse than cassette. I remember some cassette decks having Dolby settings to handle hiss and compression issues.

I dunno, they're a bit before my time but I tend to give them a free pass as I've been told that the better sound quality made up for the horrible inconvenience of them.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by KRW1

I dunno, they're a bit before my time but I tend to give them a free pass as I've been told that the better sound quality made up for the horrible inconvenience of them.

You might be onto something with 8 track analogy, we been told that the better video quality of 8K made up for the horrible inconvenience of the no 8K content!

[nick4Knight]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But will physical media be strong enough to support 8K disc in 10-15 years? Discuss.

There will always be a market. However, it could end up hovering at 40$ minimum a disc. Fact is we just are seeing a drop off each format in even enthusiasts willing to upgrade.

I think if you make 15 years the timeline we will see all catalog on film -that warrants a UHD release til now and in the coming 5 years- out in 8K as well. But, making it 15 years I'd say the storage and download options could make physical even more scarcely manufactured. It may be that there is a predominance of MOD models employed by the studios.

Would you pay 50$ for your favourites in 8K detail MOD? In 15 years? I may....

[Staying Salty]

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post55742288

Originally Posted by Lurker123

All that said, however, there is a reason for wanting OLED 8K screens, apparently they demoed glassless 3D via a lightfield effect using an 8K screen. The image was effectively 4K, with the remainder of the pixels creating a depth of field light field in a layer in front of the screen giving you perceived 3D sans glasses. Now that's something I could definitely get behind, although I predict it will be at least 4 years before we see it, provided it can be commercially produced. And then there's the question of cost... it also has to come in at an affordable price point to be mass-accepted.

Would this require new 3D source/content?

[Staying Salty]

http://www.insideci.co.uk/news/japan...-olympics.aspx

While the Tokyo Olympics is seen as a launching ground for 8K UHD, Gray doesn’t predict a significant swing to 8K in Japan, as the country has a long standing preference for smaller TV screens. “80-inches will be the entry size for 8K,” says Gray, “and the things you’ll have to do to get one in the house make it more like furniture than a price of consumer electronics.”

[FilmFreakosaurus]

I saw NHK's 8k demos at NAB last year and color me... unimpressed. They had an 8k projector and it looked like giant 4k. You would be hard pressed to tell the difference in real life detail except for the lack of visible pixel structure by blowing up the image that big.

The compression kills any benefits as well. It really took things down more than a few pegs.

Who the f is going to put a MASSIVE 8k projector in their home except the ultra rich? About 1% of movies could take full advantage of the technology.

The industry MUST get 4k right first! HDR that isn't all over the map and easy to calibrate, content and panels with true 12 bit pixel depth processing and close to Rec 2020 color reproduction that aren't the price of small cars, etc.

[Opips3]

Future later 40 years.

Large thinner window has tv 12K technique. Who know...

[Staying Salty]

https://www.whathifi.com/news/samsun...pFO8HCKAV5J.99

The elephant in the room: 8K. Yes, there is going to be a QLED TV with a 7680 × 4320 resolution. It’s going to be 85in, will be called Q9SN, and is due sometime in the second half of the year.

...and so it begins.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post55742288

Would this require new 3D source/content?

Yes and some forms of it can be seen on Youtube: 360/VR

UHD has always made room for 4K 3d and 8K as the HEVC multi-view plus depthmap codec supports it. VR as 4K/eye or 4K 3D differs in the FPS not the codec. VR @ 90-120 FPS/EYE exceeds HDMI 2.0a, currently supported on UHD Blu-ray players; HDMI 2.1 is needed as well as a higher level HEVC which requires more powerful hardware.

My guess is Sony will first start supporting 8K UHD Blu-ray which will also support a digital bridge with AMD Raven Ridge APUs as Sony has a BDA UHD licence for PC player and drive and Raven Ridge has a new generation codec called VCE (Video Codec Engine) that supports encode and decode at the same time for both HEVC and AVC/h.264 at multiple bitrates for different devices on the home network. A new generation of PS4/PS5 should do the same. These PCs and game consoles have the hardware to do; 8K, 4K 3D, VR and Digital bridge.

Micron (GDDR6 in game consoles) and Samsung GDDR6 memory stress higher fidelity VR and 8K.

The Micron Game Console chart lower right has GDDR6 in game consoles considerably before 2020. The chart deliberately does not have any dates between 2015 and 2020 but if you chart it yourself it's almost a lock for Holiday 2018 which is what Efficientgaming.eu Tier 4 power caps for UHD media Jan 1, 2019 imply.

Then you have a recent Samsung post on GDDR6 mentioning game consoles:

8K Resolution Using Less Power
Effortlessly processing complicated data with greater speed, such as 3D graphics or 8K-resolution video, the Samsung GDDR6 still offers outstanding efficiency, using less power than GDDR5.

Ultra-Fast, Up to 768 GB/s at 384 I/O

With data rates nearly twice as fast as the previous generation, the Samsung GDDR6 offers trailblazing speed for high-resolution video and graphics-intensive 3D games and applications.

From 2012, Sony CTO plans (8K @ 300FPS) for the PS4 have to wait 5 years (2013+5=2018)
3D graphics or 8K resolution Video = 4K per eye @ 120 FPS VR or Glassless 4K 3D on 8K TV = HDMI 2.1.

2010 Sony whitepaper mentioned 8K TVs displaying 5 1080P 60FPS video streams (300FPS) with eye tracking and eye attention to one of the streams has it moved to the central larger window. Also video processing for 5 views to support glassless 3D on the 8K TV. The HEVC Multi-view plus depthmap codec is designed to support all.

Sony will be shipping 8K TVs 2020 (Console supporting 8K needs to on the market before 2020)
Foveated rendering (requires eye tracking) massively reduces the GPU load for 4K VR or even 4K 3D on a glassless 3D 8K TV if the PS4 has a UHD Camera that can also eye track. Sony has already shown a eye tracking camera.

Two new PS4s Holiday 2018 and the PS5 Post 2021

PS4 Will Probably Reach 100 Million In 2019, PS5 And Next Xbox Tentatively Coming In 2021 – IDC Analyst

The Virtual Reality Industry Forum (VRIF) announced the general availability of its first set of VR industry guidelines. It will present them during CES 2018 next month as part of a two-hour masterclass. Topics included in the guidelines include VR content production, distribution, security and consumption, with a focus on the delivery ecosystem of 360-degree video with three degrees of freedom (3DOF). They also incorporate: documentation of cross-industry interoperability points, based on ISO MPEG's Omnidirectional Media Format (OMAF); best industry practices for production of VR360 content, with an emphasis on human factors such as motion sickness; and security considerations for VR360 streaming, including user privacy and content protection.

Other topics to be addressed in 2018 by VRIF include six degrees of freedom (6DOF), live VR services and support for high dynamic range (HDR). The group will outline its 2018 roadmap and showcase VR demonstrations from Fraunhofer and Qualcomm during its CES event, with speakers from Ericsson, Intel, Irdeto, Sky, TNO, Greenlight Insights and others.

First set of VR industry guidelines

First comes HDMI 2.1
GPUs with minimum 2-10 TF common (AMD slide with sweet spot for VR)
Foveated rendering (Polaris and newer)
HEVC + Depthmap* (requires GPU for depthmap which requires GPU protection; ARM and Vega GPU or later)
Content protection (some content may only require trusted boot or none at all like Facebook or Youtube)
Content (all UHD; Game, live, cloud served, Blu-ray)

* HEVC + Depthmap is a UHD standard. Anything UHD IPTV, which according to Sony can start @ 720P or 1080P + HDR and if it includes 3D must use a Depthmap for the 50% bandwidth savings.

The UHD Blu-ray drive speed of 6X already makes provision for 4k 3D thus VR using a Depthmap. The UHD blu-ray standard of 6X can support 4K 3D but not 8K. Most UHD Blu-ray drives support speeds that can support 8K.

[Staying Salty]

https://www.cnet.com/news/microled-i...-it-beat-oled/

Right now the issue with MicroLED isn't image quality, it's manufacturing. The sources cited in the Apple report say the screens are more difficult to produce than OLED displays, to the extent that Apple almost pulled out of development a year ago. At CES Samsung's engineers told CNET's David Katzmaier that the current focus is on making a 4K-resolution MicroLED TV that's smaller than 146 inches, say 75 inches or so. They said that would take another two to five years. Here's why.

I am posting this article here because I would think this technology would eventually be used in 8K displays as well as 4K.

[Staying Salty]

http://ieeexplore-spotlight.ieee.org...al-resolution/

Not necessarily, according to Routhier. 8K allows for much more detail in static shots, but the extra detail can have a zero, or even a negative effect on shots with a lot of action and certain close-ups.

The main factor here is motion. At classic frame rates like 24 frames per second (fps), the blur due to motion is too high to achieve detail due to the low frame rate,” said Routhier. “Increasing spatial resolution just means blur will be covered by more pixels – the image will not be clearer to the viewer. Our studies show below incredibly high frame rates – like 240 fps, which is 10 times the standard fps – most of the shots in a movie or a TV show will be blurry and not benefit much from 8K.

[jibucha]

Bringing 8K Technology into Focus: Will Viewers Benefit from the Move from 4K to 8K?

in answer to your question/subject, the answer is yes, and so begins the controversy; especially given your supporting information

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

http://ieeexplore-spotlight.ieee.org...al-resolution/

[jibucha]

MicroLED is the first new screen tech in a decade. Can it beat OLED?

i agree, that microLED will be used in both UHD formats/resolution of 4K/8K, soon to be recognized as the 'premium display technology' for the best in picture quality

so, yes, it will 'easily' beat OLED

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

https://www.cnet.com/news/microled-i...-it-beat-oled/

I am posting this article here because I would think this technology would eventually be used in 8K displays as well as 4K.

[Staying Salty]

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20180409PD207.html

NHK demonstrated a 300-inch 8K theater, utilizing the composition of the content issued through four 4K projectors to generate an 8K resolution effect and seeking to create a new market space in the 8K era through the combination of super-large screens and ultra-high definition.

As to BOE, it exhibited a series of 8K LCD displays, ranging in sizes covering 27, 65, 75, 98 and 100 inches and now supplied to NHK, art museums, and other enterprise clients requiring large-size ultra-high definition display systems. The company also highlighted its 8K image solutions featuring the combination of BOE cloud service platform, 8K decoding player and 8K display.

[Staying Salty]

https://advanced-television.com/2018...minate-market/

He also forecast that 8K is very much a reality, and that China will dominate shipments with “aggressive” introduction by China’s powerful manufacturing companies despite – today – there being very little content to view. By 2022, he said, some 5.5 million 8K sets will be shipping (although mostly within China). “Early-adopting consumers, enthusiastic for new features,” will be at the forefront, he added.

[Staying Salty]

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1523611680

Sony says that the “Crystal LED” display – Sony’s marketing term for microLED technology – has 8K x 4K resolution, meaning four times as many pixels as your brand new 4K TV. It also has extremely deep blacks and a peak brightness of around 1,000 nits (1,000,000:1 contrast ratio). FlatpanelsHD was not on spot at NAB to experience it but our colleagues over at Display Daily said the following:

- “For me the biggest impression was the 8Kx4K (32’ x 18’ - 9.75 x 5.5m) CLED display. This is an RGB microLED video wall solution that was not only massive but showed incredible images – most of the time. I say most of the time because content that was shot at 24 or 30 fps showed huge amounts of judder when viewed close up. It decreased a bit with distance, but was still noticeable.”

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

....content that was shot at 24 or 30 fps showed huge amounts of judder when viewed close up. It decreased a bit with distance, but was still noticeable.”]

Of course it was. Folks were alerted to judder as a noticeable artifact with HDR on TV-sized displays, years ago - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post13935672 . What did NAB attendees expect when you have a 32’ x 18’ high luminance screen showing HDR at traditional frame rate and 8K rez to boot?

In fact during this demo back in ‘15 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...20post11162451 , the displayed content (shot at 24fps, 180 degree shutter) with fast action showed judder on all the HDR displays except for the Samsung JS9500, which despite the TV provider being asked to turn off before the demo, was the only manufacturer that had their motion interpolation on (engaged). Cured the judder, but imagery looked too much like broadcast 60i video.

[4K fanatic]

https://www.redsharknews.com/product...-quickly-as-4k

[koberulz]

Yes, if you sit two inches from the TV 8K is better.

If you're 99% of people, though...