8K discussion thread - Page 27 - Blu-ray Forum

Geoff D · 06-21-2019, 02:41 PM

Just as streaming still leads the way with 4K content creation (and Netflix did some stuff in 6K several years ago) so shall it be be with 8K. Not surprised that Light Iron are involved either, they've had Fincher put them through their paces with a 6K DI (5K final extraction) on Gone Girl a few years back.

koberulz · 06-21-2019, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There are plenty of capable HDR TVs out there, the problem lies with the tone mapping as much as the actual specs of X TV.

True, and perhaps "most" was an overstatement but there are still a lot of SDR 4K sets around (in homes if not on shelves), and the obvious issue with OLED not really being technically HDR-capable at all.

Quote:

you would not be the first person so enamoured with the SDR image on their OLED that HDR seems to be a minimal improvement, if at all, but the problem stems from that peak brightness as you say.

It's also worth pointing out that my previous viewing experience was an uncalibrated LCD that was absurdly cloudy, but I never noticed because I watched in well-lit rooms anyway. I only really started getting into the AV side of things relatively recently, enough to shut the lights off when watching a film and suddenly realise that my set was horrendously broken. And I'm too far from my TV to even get the full benefit of 1080p, never mind 4K, so on a detail level it's an absolute waste. Only reason I have a 4K TV at all is that's what was around when I noticed the clouding on the old TV (which was thankfully still under the extended warranty I'd been bullied into buying with it).

Penton-Man · 06-21-2019, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puddy77

Panavision says Netflix's Maniac had a full 8k (anamorphic) workflow. So I guess we'll have one show to watch whenever Netflix goes 8k.

https://twitter.com/Panavision/statu...15347206430720

https://youtu.be/VHMcOKAgkZc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Just as streaming still leads the way with 4K content creation (and Netflix did some stuff in 6K several years ago) so shall it be be with 8K. Not surprised that Light Iron are involved either, they've had Fincher put them through their paces with a 6K DI (5K final extraction) on Gone Girl a few years back.

Remember back in the day when many videophiles were screaming their heads off about ‘fake grain’…. this is yet another motion picture that uses a film profile from Livegrain. Wondering how strong the outcry from hobbyists is these days with regards to artificial grain/texture?

Geoff D · 06-21-2019, 05:14 PM

There's been degrain/regraining going on for years behind the scenes (remember that PDF you posted of the Bus Stop restoration?), people only notice it when they notice it, you know? If it's done well then no-one's any the wiser. I thought Halloween looked rather good with the Livegrain, subtly textured but nicely done.

Agent Kay · 06-22-2019, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puddy77

Panavision says Netflix's Maniac had a full 8k (anamorphic) workflow. So I guess we'll have one show to watch whenever Netflix goes 8k.

https://twitter.com/Panavision/statu...15347206430720

https://youtu.be/VHMcOKAgkZc

Let's hope data caps are gone by then

Robert Zohn · 06-22-2019, 04:09 PM

Check out this 16 second video of our installation of Sony's first 98" 8K Z9G TV.

https://www.facebook.com/robert.zohn...t=feed_comment

FilmFreakosaurus · 06-22-2019, 04:24 PM

Wake me when 8k fixes all the problems, missing specs, HDR snafus, and panel issues they should have worked on with 4k.

spider-neil · 06-22-2019, 04:48 PM

I wonder if 8K TVs will mean we can get 4K 3D.

FilmFreakosaurus · 06-22-2019, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spider-neil

I wonder if 8K TVs will mean we can get 4K 3D.

It would have to be added to the BDA spec for UHD Blu-ray with an update to H.265 frame packing as well. All 3D DI's are still mastered in 2k as far as I know.

Robert Zohn · 06-25-2019, 01:39 AM

Here's two of our Sony Z9G 8K TV installs. One 98" and one 85".

Gretiem · 06-25-2019, 03:21 AM

^ my god

LordoftheRings · 06-25-2019, 04:17 AM

Yaman ... go big ~~or go~~ and stay home.

Geoff D · 06-25-2019, 08:55 AM

I hope there wasn't any 'Fallout' from the owner's missus (see what I did there?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

It would have to be added to the BDA spec for UHD Blu-ray with an update to H.265 frame packing as well. All 3D DI's are still mastered in 2k as far as I know.

You get the occasional non-standard workflow, like Ang Lee finishing Billy Lynn's in 120fps 4K 3D, but that and indeed his upcoming Gemini Man have to use bespoke projection set-ups and DCPs in order to be presented as such, there's nothing like that in the DCI spec at all.

Auditor55 · 06-25-2019, 01:09 PM

8K is a joke.!!

4K HDR is barely supported with software. Optical disc is on its way out. The thought of 8K streaming is laughable, so 8K is a joke.

sapiendut · 06-25-2019, 01:19 PM

Do you have anything else to do other than crapping on every single thread in this forum?

DavePS3 · 06-25-2019, 02:06 PM

I'm getting the Samsung 65" 8K set next week (already paid for). I'm not getting it for 8K content... when it comes, it comes but I've seen the up-conversion it does and I'm SO interested in getting all my sources connected and tweaked!

Lee A Stewart · 06-25-2019, 06:41 PM

Will 8K Dampen 4K TV Sales?

"This industry loves to eat its young" is an observation often attributed to Dave Workman, president and CEO of the ProSource buying group. With TV makers and retailers yearning for higher margin 8K TVs, could slim margin 4K sets be the next item on Workman's industry cannibalization menu?

"There really isn't anything a dealer can do if the customer believes [8K] is the next technology coming and is inclined to put off their purchase or upgrade because of this," Workman notes. "The sets are very expensive and there isn't any content available, but the picture does look amazing on the set."

That 8K will someday subsume 4K, just as 4K usurped 2K and just as 2K consumed analog TV, is a given. Whether or not retailers can do anything about 8K excitement impacting sales of 4K TVs in the short-term may be another matter.

All of which assumes 8K is impacting 4K sales.

"We found showing 8K did not hurt 4K sales – and that shocked us," reported Tom Campbell, corporate direct or of the five-store SoCal Video & Audio Center (VAC) chain, "and we had been extremely concerned. For people for whom price is not an issue, they want the latest regardless of cost. But the attitude of most customers is that I can get a great buy on 4K, and when the price comes down on 8K, we'll buy one then."

Considering that 8K TVs still carry $5,000-plus price tags, buying interest could take time to catch up with actual buying. According to Futuresource, sales of 8K sets in the U.S. are projected to reach just 300,000 units this year, a mere 1.3 million by 2023.

"8K technology may cannibalise to a small degree 4K sales going forward, but this is in line with a growing trend toward larger screen TVs in most major markets," notes Matthew Rubin, Futuresource's senior market analyst, "which, when combined with 8K only being available in TVs above 60 inches, suggests the shift will happen naturally, but will be restricted to these extra-large screens."

Stephen Paczkowski, buyer and channel manager for the AVB buying group's Expert Warehouse distribution arm, thinks that 8K can actually boost 4K TV sales. "A smart retailer will use the classic 'sell off of the high-end' product strategy, and move to 4K if they encounter an objection. As the saying goes, start with the Ferrari and move to the Ford."

Even considering the lack of 8K content and the approximate 5x price delta between 4K and 8K sets, some retailers are taking no chances.

"Promoting 8K confuses customers," insists Bob Cole, founder and CEO of Philadelphia's World Wide Stereo. "It’s just another thing that reduces their confidence, and there enough articles that say there is no content, making it sound like a scam. We never promote a TV as 8K right now. We promote it as a better TV, which it is. In-store we explain how. They sell, but there is no velocity yet."

https://www.widescreenreview.com/new...l.php?id=21812

JohnAV · 06-25-2019, 06:50 PM

^ Dealers have to be honest when promoting 8k displays, while they marginally improve PQ, you don’t need consumers led from believing quality 4K displays aren’t capable solutions for years to come.

Krypton_Son · 06-25-2019, 07:57 PM

I'm all for 8k, but I'm not going to upgrade until 8k blu-rays and players are more readily available. Plus the price is just way too high right now.

Robert Zohn · 06-25-2019, 08:07 PM

Please consider the following advantages of owning a 8K TV:

1st, is that the manufacturers are putting the very best display panels exclusively into the 8K TV series. Some good example are; Sony bringing back the highly respected Backlight Master Drive in the 8K Z9G. LG developed a native 8K 88" OLED module for the Z9P and Samsung is coming out with the Micro LED. Sharp will launch the dual cell LCD 75" 8K TV in Q1 2020.

2nd, Each TV manufacturer has also put the best video processing SoCs, like LG's new a9 Gen 2 PRO for the 88" 8K OLED and Sony retuned the flagship X1 Ultimate.

- 2b, bonus, the video processing is so well designed that 4K HDR looks stunning on these 8K TV as does FHD SDR. I've spend a lot of time with Sony's Z9G and Samsung's Q900R and tested and evaluated all sorts of varied content.

3rd, as an amateur enthusiasts photographer, I will be buying Sharp's consumer 8K camera and creating my own native 8K content.

In the end if you want the best TV, like it or not it's an 8K TV.

06-21-2019, 02:41 PM	#521
Geoff D Blu-ray Emperor Top contributor Member since:Feb 2009 Location:Swanage, Engerland 4K collection:1348 Blu-ray collection:2525 Blu-ray reviews: 6 Trading Score:33	Just as streaming still leads the way with 4K content creation (and Netflix did some stuff in 6K several years ago) so shall it be be with 8K. Not surprised that Light Iron are involved either, they've had Fincher put them through their paces with a 6K DI (5K final extraction) on Gone Girl a few years back.

06-21-2019, 05:14 PM	#524
Geoff D Blu-ray Emperor Top contributor Member since:Feb 2009 Location:Swanage, Engerland 4K collection:1348 Blu-ray collection:2525 Blu-ray reviews: 6 Trading Score:33	There's been degrain/regraining going on for years behind the scenes (remember that PDF you posted of the Bus Stop restoration?), people only notice it when they notice it, you know? If it's done well then no-one's any the wiser. I thought Halloween looked rather good with the Livegrain, subtly textured but nicely done.

06-22-2019, 04:24 PM	#527
FilmFreakosaurus Banned Member since:Apr 2012 Location:US of A Blu-ray collection:306 DVD collection:17	Wake me when 8k fixes all the problems, missing specs, HDR snafus, and panel issues they should have worked on with 4k.

06-22-2019, 04:48 PM	#528
spider-neil Blu-ray Knight Member since:Feb 2011	I wonder if 8K TVs will mean we can get 4K 3D.

06-25-2019, 03:21 AM	#531
Gretiem Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Oct 2018 Location:somewhere Trading Score:37	^ my god

06-25-2019, 04:17 AM	#532
LordoftheRings Special Member Top contributor Member since:Mar 2010 Location:Portishead ♫	Yaman ... go big ~~or go~~ and stay home.

06-25-2019, 01:09 PM	#534
Auditor55 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Sep 2011	8K is a joke.!! 4K HDR is barely supported with software. Optical disc is on its way out. The thought of 8K streaming is laughable, so 8K is a joke.

06-25-2019, 01:19 PM	#535
sapiendut Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jul 2009 Location:Canada 4K collection:2 Blu-ray collection:3	Do you have anything else to do other than crapping on every single thread in this forum?

06-25-2019, 02:06 PM	#536
DavePS3 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Toronto Home Theater Gallery:56 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:1	I'm getting the Samsung 65" 8K set next week (already paid for). I'm not getting it for 8K content... when it comes, it comes but I've seen the up-conversion it does and I'm SO interested in getting all my sources connected and tweaked!

06-25-2019, 06:41 PM	#537
Lee A Stewart Blu-ray Baron Member since:Jan 2019 Location:Albuquerque, NM	Will 8K Dampen 4K TV Sales? "This industry loves to eat its young" is an observation often attributed to Dave Workman, president and CEO of the ProSource buying group. With TV makers and retailers yearning for higher margin 8K TVs, could slim margin 4K sets be the next item on Workman's industry cannibalization menu? "There really isn't anything a dealer can do if the customer believes [8K] is the next technology coming and is inclined to put off their purchase or upgrade because of this," Workman notes. "The sets are very expensive and there isn't any content available, but the picture does look amazing on the set." That 8K will someday subsume 4K, just as 4K usurped 2K and just as 2K consumed analog TV, is a given. Whether or not retailers can do anything about 8K excitement impacting sales of 4K TVs in the short-term may be another matter. All of which assumes 8K is impacting 4K sales. "We found showing 8K did not hurt 4K sales – and that shocked us," reported Tom Campbell, corporate direct or of the five-store SoCal Video & Audio Center (VAC) chain, "and we had been extremely concerned. For people for whom price is not an issue, they want the latest regardless of cost. But the attitude of most customers is that I can get a great buy on 4K, and when the price comes down on 8K, we'll buy one then." Considering that 8K TVs still carry $5,000-plus price tags, buying interest could take time to catch up with actual buying. According to Futuresource, sales of 8K sets in the U.S. are projected to reach just 300,000 units this year, a mere 1.3 million by 2023. "8K technology may cannibalise to a small degree 4K sales going forward, but this is in line with a growing trend toward larger screen TVs in most major markets," notes Matthew Rubin, Futuresource's senior market analyst, "which, when combined with 8K only being available in TVs above 60 inches, suggests the shift will happen naturally, but will be restricted to these extra-large screens." Stephen Paczkowski, buyer and channel manager for the AVB buying group's Expert Warehouse distribution arm, thinks that 8K can actually boost 4K TV sales. "A smart retailer will use the classic 'sell off of the high-end' product strategy, and move to 4K if they encounter an objection. As the saying goes, start with the Ferrari and move to the Ford." Even considering the lack of 8K content and the approximate 5x price delta between 4K and 8K sets, some retailers are taking no chances. "Promoting 8K confuses customers," insists Bob Cole, founder and CEO of Philadelphia's World Wide Stereo. "It’s just another thing that reduces their confidence, and there enough articles that say there is no content, making it sound like a scam. We never promote a TV as 8K right now. We promote it as a better TV, which it is. In-store we explain how. They sell, but there is no velocity yet." https://www.widescreenreview.com/new...l.php?id=21812

06-25-2019, 06:50 PM	#538
JohnAV Blu-ray Knight Member since:Sep 2009 Location:Silicon Valley - where you never run out of toys! 4K collection:322 Blu-ray collection:964 MA collection:80 Digital collection:243 Blu-ray reviews:31 Trading Score:2	^ Dealers have to be honest when promoting 8k displays, while they marginally improve PQ, you don’t need consumers led from believing quality 4K displays aren’t capable solutions for years to come.

06-25-2019, 07:57 PM	#539
Krypton_Son Senior Member Top contributor Member since:Jun 2017 Location:Somwhere out there 4K collection:19 Blu-ray collection:527 DVD collection:88 Trading Score:1	I'm all for 8k, but I'm not going to upgrade until 8k blu-rays and players are more readily available. Plus the price is just way too high right now.

06-25-2019, 08:07 PM	#540
Robert Zohn Retailer Insider Member since:Nov 2009 Location:Scarsdale, NY Trading Score:2	Please consider the following advantages of owning a 8K TV: 1st, is that the manufacturers are putting the very best display panels exclusively into the 8K TV series. Some good example are; Sony bringing back the highly respected Backlight Master Drive in the 8K Z9G. LG developed a native 8K 88" OLED module for the Z9P and Samsung is coming out with the Micro LED. Sharp will launch the dual cell LCD 75" 8K TV in Q1 2020. 2nd, Each TV manufacturer has also put the best video processing SoCs, like LG's new a9 Gen 2 PRO for the 88" 8K OLED and Sony retuned the flagship X1 Ultimate. - 2b, bonus, the video processing is so well designed that 4K HDR looks stunning on these 8K TV as does FHD SDR. I've spend a lot of time with Sony's Z9G and Samsung's Q900R and tested and evaluated all sorts of varied content. 3rd, as an amateur enthusiasts photographer, I will be buying Sharp's consumer 8K camera and creating my own native 8K content. In the end if you want the best TV, like it or not it's an 8K TV.

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