Marvel's Doctor Strange (2016)

[The Dragon]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I'm not a comic book guy but I read an article today on the possible future of the MCU and it hinted that Strange's power might be shown to come from an Infinity Stone, rather than magic being real. Is that going to upset the fanboys?

[Show spoiler]Well looking toward Age of Ultron, isn't that implied for The Twins, from the mid-credit scene from The Winter Soldier? Their powers maybe coming from being experiments of Von Strucker's use of Loki's sceptor?

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by The Dragon

[Show spoiler]Well looking toward Age of Ultron, isn't that implied for The Twins, from the mid-credit scene from The Winter Soldier? Their powers maybe coming from being experiments of Von Strucker's use of Loki's sceptor?

Yeah definitely, Marvel can't use the term mutant I believe, so that is their replacement. Which works well in my opinion, I never thought the X-Men and general Marvel universes mixed well anyway.

Makes sense to do the same thing with Doctor Strange.

[The Dragon]

@ StingingVelvet, which article did you read may I ask? Could you provide a link?

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by The Dragon

@ StingingVelvet, which article did you read may I ask? Could you provide a link?

It was just a speculation article somewhere, nothing concrete. If I find it again I'll share it.

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

It was just a speculation article somewhere, nothing concrete. If I find it again I'll share it.

I don't think it will be the case though.

In the case of the twins, there is a specific reason why. Here, there is nothing stopping Marvel from using the actual origin of Strange. And just too much revolves around his actual origin, as in of the Esoteric kind, from his Nemesis

[Show spoiler](Dormammu)

to his collection of powers and even all the "artifacts" generally associated with the title of "Sorcerer Supreme" (and how would that title work with a power essentially derived from cosmic energy?).

Imo the only reason they would explicitly go for this kind of origin would be for political correctness and trying not to alienate (or downright anger) the more extremist religious crowds.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

Imo the only reason they would explicitly go for this kind of origin would be for political correctness and trying not to alienate (or downright anger) the more extremist religious crowds.

I would view it more as an attempt to ground the film in a cinematic realism, which seems to work for comic book movies and what most try to do. They've made it more clear that Thor is an alien for example, rather than a god or whatever else. They might want to make Strange's abilities more grounded.

Also it would give them a good way to introduce another stone, of which there are 2 or 3 left to do.

[The Dragon]

Either Phoenix is going to do this or not. What's the hold-up? F-ing pretentious little pricks, he and Renner.
We'll see how things are when nobody gives a damn, about your little indy film career...

Bring on Jared Leto.

[MechaGodzilla]

I still want Pedro Pascal for the role.

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I would view it more as an attempt to ground the film in a cinematic realism, which seems to work for comic book movies and what most try to do. They've made it more clear that Thor is an alien for example, rather than a god or whatever else. They might want to make Strange's abilities more grounded.

Also it would give them a good way to introduce another stone, of which there are 2 or 3 left to do.

So, what you are saying, is that Infinity stones, immortal Aliens based on Norse mythology and are more grounded in reality, and that a mystical world with demons based in mythology is not? (which in and off itself is explained as a parallel dimension, with energies that are not comprehensible to us, but not necessarily tied to the infinity stones either at all)

Right.




PS: You do realize that just like DC has its "Dark Forces", the Marvel lineup has a dark Mystical side too, which involves (but is not limited to) Ghost Rider, Blade (and Dracula!) and Brother Voodoo among others... right?

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

So, what you are saying, is that Infinity stones, immortal Aliens based on Norse mythology and are more grounded in reality, and that a mystical world with demons based in mythology is not? (which in and off itself is explained as a parallel dimension, with energies that are not comprehensible to us, but not necessarily tied to the infinity stones either at all)

Right.

PS: You do realize that just like DC has its "Dark Forces", the Marvel lineup has a dark Mystical side too, which involves (but is not limited to) Ghost Rider, Blade (and Dracula!) and Brother Voodoo among others... right?

I actually do find aliens who visited Earth thousands of years ago more believable than "the Greek gods are real!," yes. Ten times more believable, actually.

You're missing the point though. You're getting hung up on the world "realism" without reading the word before it, "cinematic." The goal is not to portray real life, the goal is to make the fantastical things happening on screen seem believable and grounded in a reality within the movie and series. Pretty much every comic book movie ever made does this exact thing. They are all tweaked in subtle or non-subtle ways from the comics to achieve that. It's an essential part of their success the last couple decades.

Giving Strange's powers a pseudo-science explanation like the stones is a good way to accomplish this for his movie. Is it the only way? No, who knows what they'll do. It's a good way though, and since they have to introduce a couple more stones in Phase 3 it makes a lot of sense.

[Sean B.]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

I still want Pedro Pascal for the role.

Same here.

[Pounder]

They should get Antonio Banderas as Doctor Strange.

[Sean B.]

Originally Posted by Pounder

They should get Antonio Banderas as Doctor Strange.

Antonio Banderas as Doctor Strange ? That could work if they can make him look like this...

[NP13]

Originally Posted by Pounder

They should get Antonio Banderas as Doctor Strange.

Sadly, I can't watch him without thinking of Puss in Boots anymore. Every time he speaks, I keep expecting the big eyes...

[Show spoiler]

[smileyousonofab****]

I was curious to know is Joaquin Phoenix still the lead runner for the role?

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I actually do find aliens who visited Earth thousands of years ago more believable than "the Greek gods are real!," yes. Ten times more believable, actually.

You're missing the point though. You're getting hung up on the world "realism" without reading the word before it, "cinematic." The goal is not to portray real life, the goal is to make the fantastical things happening on screen seem believable and grounded in a reality within the movie and series. Pretty much every comic book movie ever made does this exact thing. They are all tweaked in subtle or non-subtle ways from the comics to achieve that. It's an essential part of their success the last couple decades.

Giving Strange's powers a pseudo-science explanation like the stones is a good way to accomplish this for his movie. Is it the only way? No, who knows what they'll do. It's a good way though, and since they have to introduce a couple more stones in Phase 3 it makes a lot of sense.

And yet it'd be a terrible idea.
But please do let us know how he would be considered the "Sorcerer Supreme", have to recite incantations and need the use of mystical artifacts, or how eventually the Blade / Ghost Rider characters (tied in some ways or others to the Dr Stragne universe) could fit in.

I'm all ears

You seem to believe that a more mystical universe cannot co-exist with the supposedly more grounded approach of "Aliens" and "Cosmic Energy Source", when they have both in the comics (cf the FF4 arcs involving Agatha Harkness in particular, but also the X-Men when Illyana is involved) and movies (Blade, Ghost Rider).
Now you are right that the current crop of Marvel movies has not delved into that kind of universe yet. But that doesn't mean they won't, or that they shouldn't.

Imho, replacing Strange's mystical origins by a comics power would be fundamentally altering who he is, and what he stands for (The Sorcerer Supreme is supposed to be able to wield both White -and- Black magic withough being corrupted by it, for the sake of protecting Earth).

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

You seem to believe that a more mystical universe cannot co-exist with the supposedly more grounded approach of "Aliens" and "Cosmic Energy Source", when they have both in the comics (cf the FF4 arcs involving Agatha Harkness in particular, but also the X-Men when Illyana is involved) and movies (Blade, Ghost Rider).

Blade and Ghost Rider are not in the MCU, and I couldn't care less about comics. I want a good movie, that fits with the other MCU movies. That is the end-all-be-all for me. Magic in the same world as the existing 10 movies seems to be a bad fit, so the article made sense to me that they would explain it some other way. The fact that comic book loyalists would be annoyed is nowhere near surprising, but I think all these studios have shown that they will annoy those people when they have to do so to make a better film.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I want a good movie, that fits with the other MCU movies. That is the end-all-be-all for me. Magic in the same world as the existing 10 movies seems to be a bad fit, so the article made sense to me that they would explain it some other way.

For what it's worth, that's what some people initially thought regarding the cosmic aspects in Thor.

The MCU already has super science, cosmic planes of reality, and intergalactic civilizations; in my opinion there's still plenty room for magic to fit in.

[Hellraiserfan]

So some people want the MCU to be more grounded? No ****ing thank you, that's why most of their films have been better in my eyes compared to certain other comic films, they embrace the comics more. People who don't feel magic should belong in the MCU because it wouldn't "fit in" with the rest of it lack imagination and a sense of fun. That and they must be forgetting that these are comic book movies. They're one of the few types of films that can go balls to the wall with fantasy and scifi elements.

You want grounded stick to the Fox Xmen films.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Hellraiserfan

You want grounded stick to the Fox Xmen films.

I enjoy them, and I prefer them.

This is all opinion. I am stating mine. I don't think magic works in the same universe as Iron Man. Just because the comics do it doesn't mean it's good in a movie. They've already changed many things from the comic in the MCU, I think the source of Strange's power is another time they should do so. The idea that Marvel always stick to the comics is complete fallacy.

I don't think mutants would work either, and Marvel are lucky in my opinion that they can't use the term. It prevented them from being stupid and combining those worlds. There's nothing special about Iron Man or Captain America in a world with mutants. I don't care if the comic do it, it's poor world-creation in my opinion. They're lucky the option to do it was taken away from them.