HDR Discussion Thread

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by the_sextein

I may be incorrect but DV is currently limited to 12 bit correct? I am just trying comprehend what DV will bring to the table if Sony gets around to a firmware upgrade. Could the 14 bit processing benefit a Z9D user since the backlight is not capable of 4000 nits?

12 bit with the possibility of ICtCp.

Pixel bits in this regard are most noticeably for better and more detailed color and grey scale reproduction. More bits equals finer gradation and color volume handling.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by the_sextein

I hope I am not coming off as a complainer. I am very satisfied with the way Westworld looks on my display currently. I simply voiced my disappointment that critics with DV enabled gear have commented on the current implementation of DV on the titles I own as not being very noticeable differences. I am all for the improvement of display technology whenever possible.

Much depends on the display, its calibration, the source, the studio colorist, the encoding and mastering quality, etc.

Dolby has implemented improvements in their UHD Blu-ray mastering chain, so it also depends on when a particular DV master was created.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by the_sextein

I hope I am not coming off as a complainer. I am very satisfied with the way Westworld looks on my display currently. I simply voiced my disappointment that critics with DV enabled gear have commented on the current implementation of DV on the titles I own as not being very noticeable differences. I am all for the improvement of display technology whenever possible.

Who said you were complaining? You're a saint compared to the "now, a word from our sponsors" shit we get bombarded with by certain members on this forum. I added an edit to my previous post while you were replying, check it out.

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by the_sextein

I hope I am not coming off as a complainer. I am very satisfied with the way Westworld looks on my display currently. I simply voiced my disappointment that critics with DV enabled gear have commented on the current implementation of DV on the titles I own as not being very noticeable differences. I am all for the improvement of display technology whenever possible.

What 'critics' would that be?

Funny fact: HeatEquation used to be all about Vincent Teoh, until Teoh recently came out and said, word for word verbatim: "What is seen cannot be unseen. What is known cannot be unknown. If given the opportunity, I would much prefer to watch Dolby Vision content over HDR10 content, every single time."

Now, he goes to Ralph Potts, who is just as much as an average Joe as the rest of us in this thread. But again, he cherry picks any portion of an individual that supports his trolling bullshit in regard to the whole HDR10/Dolby Vision topic, because he owns a KS8000, and has never had the opportunity to experience the latter.

Regardless, Teoh is the one and only current 'reviewer' that applies actual science to his analysis. While I would never let anyone speak for me in terms of topics that are entirely subjective--in this case, however--it is not. It's an undeniable, scientific fact.

Also, here's the most informative writeup you can find on High Dynamic Range on the internet today: https://hometheaterhifi.com/technica...-vision-hdr10/

Brian Florian is a practitioner of solution architecture of technology. So, similar to someone like Vincent Teoh, he knows what the hell is he talking about.

Anyway, you also have artists like Roger Deakins, who happen to embrace almost every new, resourceful technology that people like him can employ--and while he sees the benefit of HDR, he is not in favor of how it is advertised; meaning, he doesn't use HDR to the effect that some people on this forum want you to believe it should be used.

With all that being said, I've seen added benefits of Dolby Vision compared to HDR10 on my panel, while using the same player (OPPO UDP-203)--and even before Vincent Teoh provided his video analysis of the benefits of DV compared to HDR10, I made several points about how the color gradation, is much more smoother and refined compared to EVERY one of its HDR10 counterparts. This has nothing to do with tone-mapping or lack of peak brightness, FYI. But has all to do with the 12-bit signal that Dolby still feeds your panel.

There are literal, scientifically proven, inherent limitations that HDR10 has compared to DV.

Now, excuse me as I go back to viewing 'Westworld'. On disc. In Dolby Vision. A format I can speak on currently, that a lot of users in this thread, can't.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by the_sextein

Personally, I am still waiting on Sony to update my firmware so it doesn't matter to me either way at the moment. I thought this might be the first title that made me really want it but it's not. I think Sony is waiting to see how Samsung's HDR+ works out and how the public thinks of it before jumping in bed with Dolby since DV costs money and HDR+ does not.

Sony has already committed to DV, and likely has already paid these fees. They're in far too deep, and unfortunately for them, they are stuck with this format. I wouldn't get your hopes up for HDR10+.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

Funny fact: HeatEquation used to be all about Vincent Teoh, until Teoh recently came out and said, word for word verbatim: "What is seen cannot be unseen. What is known cannot be unknown. If given the opportunity, I would much prefer to watch Dolby Vision content over HDR10 content, every single time."

I agree with literally everything Vincent Teoh has ever said about each format, including his analysis that found that there is exactly no difference between DV on an LG OLED and HDR10 on a Samsung LCD.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

No, you didn't. You tried to twist his quotes, and continually misinterpreted the context and intent of what he's said.

He never used a Samsung LCD, because he didn't have to. As I pointed out for the other user above, Teoh used two B7's, and said it was perfectly fine for comparing the two formats directly, because of the way the B7 tone-maps HDR10 content. That, and the fact that he calibrated a B7 capable of hitting 900-nits. So, it's not like it lacks in the peak brightness department.

-Dolby Vision delivered a superior HDR image compared with HDR10 4K Blu-ray on the LG OLED55E6, displaying less highlight clipping and more accurate colours;
-The most effective method to recover the blown-out highlights in Ultra HD Blu-ray movies on the LG E6 was by lowering the [Contrast] on the source player; and
-A top-end 4K HDR LED LCD TV with high peak brightness and correct tone-mapping (for example the Samsung UE65KS9500) could present HDR10 UHD Blu-ray films in a manner that’s not inferior to Dolby Vision.

In other words, Dolby Vision pulled ahead of HDR10 4K Blu-ray when the display featured suboptimal peak brightness/ colour volume/ tone-mapping, but the gap was closed to negligible levels by a high-end HDR TV with 1000+ nit peak luminance and accurate tone-mapping. Future developments like dynamic metadata for HDR10 (as demonstrated by Samsung at NAB 2016) may level the playing field or even swing things in favour of the open standard.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/dolby...1606214303.htm

Vincent dropping facts as usual.

[Geoff D]

Yeah, while I commend Ralph for trying to get some sort of DV coverage in there it's really not an apples to apples comparison when you're using two completely different display types to try and gauge the differences.

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/dolby...1606214303.htm

Vincent dropping facts as usual.

He posted that back in June 2016. Literally 17-months old, and before he ever compared the formats side-by-side. If you presented him that article now, he would revise it.

Hence why he said he's more curious to see how Dolby Vision looks on a ZD9.

God damn, you are daft.

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah, while I commend Ralph for trying to get some sort of DV coverage in there it's really not an apples to apples comparison when you're using two completely different display types to try and gauge the differences.

Exactly!

And, it's precisely why it continues to be fun to mock HeatEquation, and point out how utterly stupid and one-sided his stance on this is.

Mention HDR10 on an OLED, it's not allowed.

Mention that Dolby Vision isn't optimal on Potts' TCL, some how it still counts.

Dude is a troll. Through and through.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

He posted that back in June 2016. Literally 17-months old, and before he ever compared the formats side-by-side. If you presented him that article now, he would revise it.

Hence why he said he's more curious to see how Dolby Vision looks on a ZD9.

God damn, you are daft.

He literally compared them side by side.

Why would it matter when he posted it? As if some major improvement has been made to DV. If anything, we've heard of a myriad of issues with the format since then.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

He posted that back in June 2016. Literally 17-months old, and before he ever compared the formats side-by-side. If you presented him that article now, he would revise it.

Hence why he said he's more curious to see how Dolby Vision looks on a ZD9.

God damn, you are daft.

Vincent was also using a 3 minute clip on a USB he received from LG. The scenes for comparison was very limited.

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

He literally compared them side by side.

Why would it matter when he posted it? As if some major improvement has been made to DV. If anything, we've heard of a myriad of issues with the format since then.

He literally compared them side by side; with one being a disc (on the Samsung), and the other being streaming (the E6).

It has nothing to do with advancements in the format, but that his video analysis from a month ago, is his current position on the two formats, being able to compare them on the same panel, that presents both formats, adequately.

Again, you're daft.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Vincent was also using a 3 minute clip on a USB he received from LG. The scenes for comparison was very limited.

It wasn't a 3 minute clip at all. It was 3 separate clips, and they were all encoded/mastered and provided by Dolby. He says so in the article. Would be nice if you could actually read it.

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

It wasn't a 3 minute clip at all. It was 3 separate clips, and they were all encoded/mastered and provided by Dolby. He says so in the article. Would be nice if you could actually read it.

The encodes on Vudu and Netflix are also mastered in Dolby Vision.

Doesn't mean it compares to physical media.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

He literally compared them side by side; with one being a disc (on the Samsung), and the other being streaming (the E6).

It has nothing to do with advancements in the format, but that his video analysis from a month ago, is his current position on the two formats, being able to compare them on the same panel, that presents both formats, adequately.

Again, you're daft.

Still 100% false. No streaming content was used in the comparison. It was a demo on a USB provided to him by Dolby. Dolby encoded and mastered what was on the USB, and thus obviously was presented to the best of their ability.

I guess no one has actually read the article.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

It wasn't a 3 minute clip at all. It was 3 separate clips, and they were all encoded/mastered and provided by Dolby. He says so in the article. Would be nice if you could actually read it.

Wow HUGE difference lol


So, about that oled vs ks9800...

Pictures worth a thousand words right.

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Still 100% false. No streaming content was used in the comparison. It was a demo on a USB provided to him by Dolby. Dolby encoded and mastered what was on the USB, and thus obviously was presented to the best of their ability.

I guess no one has actually read the article.

It doesn't matter who mastered what.

When you're provided an .MP4 through a USB stick, it's not even close to being comparable to an actual UHD disc, you knob.

Vincent Teoh, in October 2017: "What is seen cannot be unseen. What is known cannot be unknown. If given the opportunity, I would overwhelmingly prefer to watch Dolby Vision content over HDR10."

I guess his thoughts have just changed on the manner, huh.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

It doesn't matter who mastered what.

When you're provided an .MP4 through a USB stick, it's not even close to being comparable to an actual UHD disc, you knob.

Vincent Teoh, in October 2017: "What is seen cannot be unseen. What is known cannot be unknown. If given the opportunity, I would overwhelmingly prefer to watch Dolby Vision content over HDR10."

I guess his thoughts have just changed on the manner, huh.

You're right. What was on the USB was likely far less compressed than what was on the disc.

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

You're right. What was on the USB was likely far less compressed than what was on the disc.

Yeah, they totally used 64GB of a 3-minute clip.











That's sarcasm, by the way.