HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...so as we head into ’17

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post12867088

^ Like adding the ICtCp color space (which can be applicable to either HLG or PQ) to BT.2100 come 2017.

[DanBa]

ATSC 3.0 also supports HFR:
https://frames-per-second.appspot.com/
http://atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2...Video-HEVC.pdf
http://atsc.org/pdf/conference/ATSC%...o%20System.pdf

"HEVC encoded ATSC 3.0 Progressive Video shall comply with the following constraints:
• The bitstream shall conform to HEVC Main 10 Profile or HEVC Scalable Main 10 Profile, Main Tier, Level 5.2.
• The color space container shall be Rec.709 or Rec.2020.
• The color subsampling shall be 4:2:0."

[DanBa]

High-quality TV for the masses functional for many years to come:
. 4K Higher Resolution
. Bit Depth: 10 / 12 bits
. WCG
. HFR: up to 120 fps
. HDR: Universal HDR TV able to play any existing HDR content





https://assets.pro.sony.eu/Web/commo..._Explained.pdf

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

so as we head into ’17,

and beyond for cinema folks, what to look forward to with regards to HDR in years to come, thinking even beyond 2017 -

Direct LED displays are reaching the point where they could be practical for theatrical cinema. The challenges include energy and cost, but several manufactures in this space are showing R&D interest in the cinema market and 1st generation direct LED displays for theatrical size cinema could hit the market in the next few years.

In essence, we’re looking at work being done now towards solutions as to the adoption of wide scale HDR cinema projection (outside of the closed ecosystems of Dolby Cinema and IMAX) in years to come. Experts (like some on the ASC Next Generation Cinema Display Committee) think that cinema should target 200-400 nits for peak white HDR in cinema as opposed to the peak white of 48 nits for standard cinema.

[Penton-Man]

But back to the more immediate future and, on the other hand, going from the biggest of screens to the smallest of screens, expect more and more HDR capable mobile devices (http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1383...range-s-future) with more and more HDR content, as content creators already have in their stables Dolby Vision encodes workable as low as a measly 720p resolution in HDR for mobile delivery.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

upper far right frame grab pic is from HFR imagery shot at the World Equestrian Games.

In case it’s difficult to make out the image by those viewing with their phones, for your convenience, here’s a larger pic of that particular HFR video clip guaranteed (Esox that means more than 50/50 chance ) not to have been posted by any of the mainstream AV roving reporter outlets that people source….

[Penton-Man]

I actually posted this reply today to a new member in the 4K thread, but am now cross posting it here for HDR teaching purposes….

Originally Posted by markaduffy

BBC Planet Earth 2 UHD released, exclusive to them in March...

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For those Planet Earth 2 deeper thinkers realizing that the well promoted iPlayer content has been graded for HLG with the signalling compliant to the latest release of TS 101 154 (the DVB standards for AV linked in the HDR discussion thread - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...b#post12906036)

and wondering about the possibility of HLG -> PQ conversions in the future rather than content creators having to start from scratch and needing to regrade from the raw source all over again in order to yield a PQ product for something like Ultra HD Blu-ray deliverable, which the BBC could do, but would be an unnecessary cost for smaller producers….well, not to worry as one can convert HLG -> PQ rather easily with a simple LUT since PQ encompasses a greater range of luminance than does the HLG range. Vice versa is more complex.

[Richard Paul]

BBC released an article on HDR for 2016 and it gives a good overview of all the major developments related to HLG.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...
In essence, we’re looking at work being done now towards solutions as to the adoption of wide scale HDR cinema projection (outside of the closed ecosystems of Dolby Cinema and IMAX) in years to come. Experts (like some on the ASC Next Generation Cinema Display Committee) think that cinema should target 200-400 nits for peak white HDR in cinema as opposed to the peak white of 48 nits for standard cinema.

I notice that their cinema evaluation plan goes from 48 nits to 200 nits and it sounds like cost might be a factor in what value gets picked.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

BBC released an article on HDR for 2016 and it gives a good overview of all the major developments related to HLG.

Happy New Year Richard! And for Oppo Ultra HD Blu-ray people who seem to be on the forums 24/7, I’ll be able to offer that greeting yet again on Jan. 28th if I remember to.

That frog certainly gets a lot of face time …..and I guess rightly so, as there is no frog on the Chinese zodiac. Anyway, regarding Andrew, the author of the BBC article, here’s hoping for the sake of advanced HDR aficionados that he offers something new on Jan. 19th as Dolby certainly isn’t resting on its laurels and is actively pursuing solutions for live HDR PQ broadcast unbeknownst to reporter types.

[Penton-Man]

^ And a Happy New Year to you too Dan . Keep up the mission toward Universal HDR compliant TVs in 2017. Don’t give up.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

...I notice that their cinema evaluation plan goes from 48 nits to 200 nits and it sounds like cost might be a factor in what value gets picked.

Unfortunately cost is a factor in most things in life. As a patient, have you ever visited some of the ophthalmology departments of busy teaching hospitals to have your eyes evaluated by the best of the best - http://health.usnews.com/best-hospit.../ophthalmology ? It’s like a conveyor belt once you eventually get into the examining room. I feel so sorry for the people….and to those politicos wondering, this was happening well before the affordable care act came into existence.

Anyway, good to see somebody consciously reads the professional hyperlinks. The rest of you lurkers….more coffee . All I’ll say about your ‘sounding’ is that before that plan was published one expert argued that thee optimal peak white for HDR cinema is at least 200 nits and stakeholders should target accordingly.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

....here’s hoping for the sake of advanced HDR aficionados that he offers something new on Jan. 19th as Dolby certainly isn’t resting on its laurels and is actively pursuing solutions for live HDR PQ broadcast unbeknownst to reporter types.

Because no matter what the year or what the venue, speakers that present new, exclusive findings that are recently out of the laboratory are most appreciated, like so at NAB's TSC which I attended back in '14….

NAB Show's Technology Summit on Cinema 2014: Understanding the Human Vision System - YouTube

If not, at least one thing I think BBC should clearly enunciate to the listeners of thee upcoming SMPTE webcast is their position regarding the advantage of HLG (as opposed to DV) with consumer UHD displays that have ambient light sensors.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

NAB Show's Technology Summit on Cinema 2014: Understanding the Human Vision System - YouTube

^ time stamped (I hope if my typing is right) for listeners' convenience as to the point

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Happy New Year Richard! And for Oppo Ultra HD Blu-ray people who seem to be on the forums 24/7, I’ll be able to offer that greeting yet again on Jan. 28th if I remember to.

That frog certainly gets a lot of face time …..and I guess rightly so, as there is no frog on the Chinese zodiac. Anyway, regarding Andrew, the author of the BBC article, here’s hoping for the sake of advanced HDR aficionados that he offers something new on Jan. 19th as Dolby certainly isn’t resting on its laurels and is actively pursuing solutions for live HDR PQ broadcast unbeknownst to reporter types.

Year of the Rooster, or so I've been told.

As for the HLG iplayer trial, it keeps getting relegated to the small print that they're not actually sending it in HLG HDR just yet! I'm all for the technical waffle, I love reading dat waffle, but given all the hoopla the BBC have made about it you'd think that people could actually view it as such. That would require, y'know, an HLG decoder inside a TV and there ain't too many of those about just now.

[thealexhunter]

Hey guys so I have a Samsung KU6500 T.V and originally it did not support HDR 10, but some guy on a reddit forum said they updated this, but the issue is whenever I watch a 4K Blu Ray (Samsung Player) or play an HDR enabled game (PS4 Pro) the colors seem a grey and look like a washed out Zack Snyder/David Yates movie, but whenever I play regular blu rays in the 4k player the colors look amazing. Is this because my T.V was originally 8 bit? Is there a way to fix this? Sorry if I sound dumb, I just spent the last hour researching HDR, so I am new to this whole thing. Any advice would help! Thanks so much!

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by thealexhunter

Hey guys so I have a Samsung KU6500 T.V and originally it did not support HDR 10, but some guy on a reddit forum said they updated this, but the issue is whenever I watch a 4K Blu Ray (Samsung Player) or play an HDR enabled game (PS4 Pro) the colors seem a grey and look like a washed out Zack Snyder/David Yates movie, but whenever I play regular blu rays in the 4k player the colors look amazing. Is this because my T.V was originally 8 bit? Is there a way to fix this? Sorry if I sound dumb, I just spent the last hour researching HDR, so I am new to this whole thing. Any advice would help! Thanks so much!

You have the same set as me only curved. Our sets do not have the proper light levels for HDR. Thus, HDR looks washed out because it's not getting the brightness it needs to illuminate the colors. The Samsung player does not let us turn off HDR, so we're screwed. You can try boosting color and contrast in the player menu but it always looks off to me.

I would either try a player that lets you turn HDR off or wait on UHD until you upgrade your TV. That's my plans.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by thealexhunter

Hey guys so I have a Samsung KU6500 T.V and originally it did not support HDR 10, but some guy on a reddit forum said they updated this, but the issue is whenever I watch a 4K Blu Ray (Samsung Player) or play an HDR enabled game (PS4 Pro) the colors seem a grey and look like a washed out Zack Snyder/David Yates movie, but whenever I play regular blu rays in the 4k player the colors look amazing. Is this because my T.V was originally 8 bit? Is there a way to fix this? Sorry if I sound dumb, I just spent the last hour researching HDR, so I am new to this whole thing. Any advice would help! Thanks so much!

Make sure you have uhd color turned on. Also make sure your using the AUTO color setting. It shouldn't be washed out looking, but instead be on the dark side.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Year of the Rooster, or so I've been told.

As for the HLG iplayer trial, it keeps getting relegated to the small print that they're not actually sending it in HLG HDR....

For the trial, did the BBC spokespersons ever claim that consumers were getting an HDR HLG outcome at the end of pipe on their Panny UHD TVs at home….or did reporters just misguidedly presume as much?

If there’s an internet outcry then videophiles don’t understand. Making the signal compatible (and look good) on a non-HLG equipped TV or monitor like that on the far right is the difficult part, which BBC succeeded at if viewers having access in the UK liked the picture quality, which I assume they did.

Anyway, I can tell you that HLG HDR looks good on 4K BT. 2020 capable quality monitors that have the HLG package…as seen by the most critical of eyes, second pic, far right, see place card proven (at least up to 1000 nits) to those multiple sets of eyes having no inherent bias to any HDR format.

P.S.
Thanks for the Christmas present yesterday . I’m beginning to think you guys across the pond should name this the Year of the Scorpion rather than the rooster.

[thealexhunter]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

You have the same set as me only curved. Our sets do not have the proper light levels for HDR. Thus, HDR looks washed out because it's not getting the brightness it needs to illuminate the colors. The Samsung player does not let us turn off HDR, so we're screwed. You can try boosting color and contrast in the player menu but it always looks off to me.

I would either try a player that lets you turn HDR off or wait on UHD until you upgrade your TV. That's my plans.

Damn! I guess I'll hold off on buying UHD content for now. Thanks for the reply though .

[thealexhunter]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Make sure you have uhd color turned on. Also make sure your using the AUTO color setting. It shouldn't be washed out looking, but instead be on the dark side.

Auto on the player settings?