Gladiator (2000)

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by Grubert

Back to topic:


Different frame, but same actor, same composition, same lighting, same lenses, same everything.

Over at AVS I am one of the people that often gets labeled an "apologist" because I don't scream how horrible Blu-Ray is when there is any DNR, EE, or any type of digital filtering present. I like to pick my battles (ie, I thought people were getting a little too extreme with regards to transfers like TDK, Baraka, Dr No, etc). I even defended the Star Trek movies to a degree (no question there was DNR present, but I still feel to this day that the titles, at the price I paid, was worth the upgrade over DVD).

Braveheart appears to have deserved the "Sapphire" collection label. It really looks impressive based on what I have seen. I will happily buy this title on Blu-Ray and double dip.

Gladiator? Not so much. It certainly cannot be considered anything close to reference quality based on the apparent use of DNR alone. Clearly detail has been scrubbed away just by looking at the pics you posted as well as the arrow scene. I am not going to even try and defend this. Clearly Gladiator did not get the "Sapphire" treatment. This title is worth about $9.99 tops for me. Honestly, I have not been this let down since Patton... Gladiator was a must have for me, and now I plan on 100% renting it first. I may still buy it, but I can guarantee you it will not be for a penny more than $10 and I am quite sure I will still (like Patton) be very frustrated knowing what might have been had the studio taken the time to treat this movie the way it deserved to be treated.

That said. This is not the end of the format. Clearly studios continue to pump out some gorgeous new releases and catalog titles. But I really wish somebody could get the point across to the studios that edge enhancement and excessive DNR is uncalled for on Blu-Ray. Especially on a title such as "Gladiator" that clearly was a highly regarded movie and has such a big following. Paramount should, at a minimum, remove this "Sapphire" rubbish and acknowledge the fact that this film needed a proper restoration.

[ack_bak]

Paramount.... Please, please, please do not use excessive DNR and EE on Forest Gump... Please!!!!

[eChopper]

Grubert

having watched the BD of Gladiator i can say that in motion it looks just as appalling as the stills [and yes I have a d6500 calibrated Kuro plasma]

and yes I am aware of stacey spears' caveat on the pitfalls of single frame analysis

[Deadset]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

Yeah, kinda feel like a minefield right now

Yeah, I just don't have much time in the day to be privy to all this info. I'm lucky to get a few moments here and there to sign in and read some the forums. When you have 3 people depending on you, a job that requires 50+ hrs a week, house, dogs....... I really depend on the reviewers to steer me correctly in terms of VQ/AQ.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, I’ll tell you right now that if this movie
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104346/

ever makes it to Blu-ray in the near future, it will not be part of any Ruby or Emerald Edition, etc. designated series.

Clearly not Cuba's best work

[Philnerd]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

It certainly cannot be considered anything close to reference quality based on the apparent use of DNR alone. Clearly detail has been scrubbed away just by looking at the pics you posted as well as the arrow scene.

Just an FYI for folks, the missing arrows and "painted" out or blotched over flames in this transfer are not the result of DNR, but the application of an aggressive and unsupervised run through a scratch/damage removal filter. Some of the quick jumping flames and the flaming arrows appear randomly enough within the frames that the filtering software misstook them for film damage and attempted to clean them up.

This is basically the result of cost cutting, wherein a technician simply runs the master through the filter and calls it a day as opposed to manually supervising the damage removal and specifying frames that require fixes.

[Penton-Man]

I haven't seen real-time HD of the title run side by side to determine if there are any 'missing arrows' and I will not trust *screenshots* posted online to make that determination; however, if your observation proves ultimately correct - Good call.
Do you realize how many “dnr experts” on AVS you just made fools of ?
But I think the adjectives “aggressive” and “unsupervised” are somewhat misleading.

It would probably be better to say that the source received a pass (or passes) through automated dirt/hair/scratch removal software circa ~ well, I’ll let Jeff Kleist fill in the blank when he deems fit to do so.

[sharkcohen]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I haven't seen real-time HD of the title run side by side to determine if there are any 'missing arrows'

I have. The Blu-ray is an utter mess in that scene.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

It would probably be better to say that the source received a pass (or passes) through automated dirt/hair/scratch removal software circa ~ well, I’ll let Jeff Kleist fill in the blank when he deems fit to do so.

That's exactly what the problem appears to be.

[Grubert]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I haven't seen real-time HD of the title run side by side to determine if there are any 'missing arrows' and I will not trust *screenshots* posted online to make that determination; however, if your observation proves ultimately correct - Good call.
Do you realize how many “dnr experts” on AVS you just made fools of ?
But I think the adjectives “aggressive” and “unsupervised” are somewhat misleading.

It would probably be better to say that the source received a pass (or passes) through automated dirt/hair/scratch removal software circa ~ well, I’ll let Jeff Kleist fill in the blank when he deems fit to do so.

FYI, several people (including Philnerd himself) have already mentioned "over there" the scratch removal artifacts since days ago. So I can't see how one can make fools of them now.

[wildphantom]

I'm shocked at this guys

What do we think the chances are that the transfer we're getting in the UK will be different and superior?
Its released through Universal over here, and I can't think of a single major release Uni have put out on blu that is less than good in terms of visual presentation

My gut says it'll be the same transfer. But you never know??

[wildphantom]

Know I sound like a broken record....but if anyone has any info/links that might suggest the UK version to have a different transfer can they let us know on here?

You guys in the US will of course then be able to import it as all Uni releases are region free.

The reason I am hopeful is because the Paramount release is a Sapphire one where they may well run it through all sorts of processing specific to how they produce titles in that series.
Unlikely I know - but I still have hope we might just get the real deal in the UK.

Happened with Pan's Labyrinth.

[Witch King of Angmar]

Should i go for Gladiator or not?

[Big Z]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

I got Braveheart in the mail yesterday (haven't been able to check it out since my TV is on maintenance for a couple of weeks), and Gladiator should arrive any day now.
I'm not happy about this issue, but I will keep it and just hold out hope for a replacement program.

I think GC Riot has got it right. IF Gladiator is in fact as poorly transferred as people are speculating...it will still be FAR better than anything you have on dvd. So get Gladiator, now or later, whenever...and hope for a replacement program.

I mean, if you have a choice between poop and dung, you might as well get your hands on the one that stinks less...and wait for the steak dinner.

[MaCruz]

Originally Posted by teracore

Should i go for Gladiator or not?

If you like the movie YES!

[ryoohki]

I'am not buying it. Imho Studio's won't listen if anyone don't care. It will, one day be released...

[P@t_Mtl]

It all come's down to each person choice, buy on don't buy if you do not like the picture quality.

I face the same trouble a few months back with Robin Hood Prince Of Thieves. Everyone was complaining that it was a very bad BD release. For me it came down to the fact that while it wasn't a reference BD, it was way superior in picture quality then the horrible DVD transfert I had and it's a movie I truly enjoy and had not been watching for sometime because of the horrible quality of the DVD. So I bought it and I am quite happy with it.

It will be the samething with both Braveheart or Gladiator for the fans of these movies. In the end the BD transfert might not be what it is for Iron Man or TDK but it is still way superior then the DVD were and it will be a joy for them to watch it or BD.

[Jutty]

Think it would be worth just grabbing both

[panamablu]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

It all come's down to each person choice, buy on don't buy if you do not like the picture quality.

I face the same trouble a few months back with Robin Hood Prince Of Thieves. Everyone was complaining that it was a very bad BD release. For me it came down to the fact that while it wasn't a reference BD, it was way superior in picture quality then the horrible DVD transfert I had and it's a movie I truly enjoy and had not been watching for sometime because of the horrible quality of the DVD. So I bought it and I am quite happy with it.

It will be the samething with both Braveheart or Gladiator for the fans of these movies. In the end the BD transfert might not be what it is for Iron Man or TDK but it is still way superior then the DVD were and it will be a joy for them to watch it or BD.

You may have a point there, but why release it with a mediocre quality when you can do it with an excellent quality. Nobody is pushing studios to release their entire catalog in one year. With so many movies being release every month, studio should take care of quality, after all, we're paying a premiun price for these movies, when most of us, already have paid for them at least once. Specially with movies like this one, we expect the best quality out there.
I already have my copy, and I find much better than Robin Hood in quality, but Braveheart is clearly a much better transfer.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by panamablu

You may have a point there, but why release it with a mediocre quality when you can do it with an excellent quality. Nobody is pushing studios to release their entire catalog in one year. With so many movies being release every month, studio should take care of quality, after all, we're paying a premiun price for these movies, when most of us, already have paid for them at least once. Specially with movies like this one, we expect the best quality out there.

Why do Microsoft release Windows full of bugs? Why does GM make's horrible cars? Why do musician release horrible albums full of boring songs? Why certain books who are so boring get publish? Why? Why indeed?

Nobody is pushing studios to release their catalogs movies? Humm I must have been on a different Internet then? Some studios are careful and take their times in their releases. Maybe not all execs or studio boss see the same need. Also what we do not know is what were the trouble encountered during the cleaning and restoration process? What happen? Did certain things go wrong? Was their enough time? Maybe the studios did not want to push back the release of these even if the transferts were not as perfect as they hope because of the mythic level these movies have with their fans (which I do not share by the way).

[Grubert]

Nice set of excuses.


It's like being served a latte with spoiled milk and meekly drinking it, paying for it and muttering to yourself on the way out, "oh, maybe Starbucks had a power outage last night, who knows - but it's better than no coffee at all."

I don't think any of you would do that.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Grubert

Nice set of excuses.


It's like being served a latte with spoiled milk and meekly drinking it, paying for it and muttering to yourself on the way out, "oh, maybe Starbucks had a power outage last night, who knows - but it's better than no coffee at all."

I don't think any of you would do that.

No one is forcing you to buy the latte, unless you are one of those people who will buy it anyway just so you can complain about it after?

Beside your example is not so good, if Starbuck had a power outtage and their milk was spoiled you would not know about it and so they would be wrong to sell it, while in the case of these movies you have plenty of reviews to help you decide if you wish to buy it or not.