Gladiator (2000)

[seigneur_rayden]

Get this right!!! Paramount will NOT offer a replacement program. Just like they were silent and did not care when everybody was mad and complaining; they will not care this time either. Good thing I got mine for $10 and I have yet to send that rebate.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by TTUBatfan2008

Not even close to being true.

But its definitely way older then the first gladiator release

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by mredman

But its definitely way older then the first gladiator release

Exactly, the remaster of Gangs took almost 2 years to come out. It's looking like Gladiator will be around 8 months.

Also Gangs didn't feature the "Sapphire Series" label (obviously, since it was from Disney) or anything close to it. It was simply a standard release. However, Gladiator was released as part of the Sapphire Series, the label of quality from Paramount... which actually turned out to be the opposite for Gladiator.

[Damage Inc.]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

...the Sapphire Series, the label of quality from Paramount...

Why the heck do they need a series like that anyway?
Well sure, it might have spawned a burst of sales,
but for the rest all it does is deceive and make the boxes ugly.
The studio Paramount alone wouldn't be enough? I mean look at something like 'Iron Man'...

[PrivatePixel]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

It will be interesting to see the language used when marketing the new release. Should be very telling of how they view this whole situation. It has always bothered me that they made ZERO comments on the origional release, either to defend or to apologize.

I suspect that the remastered edition of Gladiator will be rolled out without any fanfare, or even advertising (i.e. similar to what Miramax did with Gangs of New York). It may appear in a Best Buy and/or Target flyer, but that's it.

[PrivatePixel]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

Sony's problem was an authoring error, not using an older master. Technically Paramount didn't do anything wrong, and that's why there probably won't be an exchange program.

I have to concur: the initial release may have been unsatisfactory and the marketing questionable (perhaps even unethical), but neither is reason enough to undertake a replacement program.

[robertc88]

A replacement program? Remember that poll with whom will buy Gladiator regardless of the PQ? More votes yes than no from what I recall.

You had been forewarned with upteen posts and had the oppportunity not to pull the trigger back then.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by PrivatePixel

I have to concur: the initial release may have been unsatisfactory and the marketing questionable (perhaps even unethical), but neither is reason enough to undertake a replacement program.

Thats reason enough in my book.

[Ruined]

I can understand the desire for a recall or a replacement program. However, it is worth mentioning that these are the exception, not the norm. They happen much more frequently early in a format's lifetime (i.e. not now) as the userbase is smaller (cheaper) and there is a need to keep the consumer happy so the product takes off.

Remember in the end, this is about business and making money, not about delivering the best product to the consumer. You might think that delivering the best product makes the most money, but time and time again shows people will (sometimes begrudgingly) buy a crappy release and then rebuy it when a better one comes out.

Now I don't mean to single anyone out, but here is a good example of a consumer asking for a replacement program:

Originally Posted by O_V_N

This makes no sense.

Whether you bought or didn't buy the original release, no one here should oppose a re-release that comes with an exchange/replacement program.

No one loses.

(Your position also fails to take into account the average person who had no idea of the technical deficiencies of the release.)

And here is that same poster months ago when they were alerted to technical deficiencies with the transfer prior to buying it:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/2257179-post820.html


Now this is not the only poster who did this by a long shot - I saw a lot of posts with people buying this title on release date on this very forum saying 'hey its better than the dvd, I'm not gonna notice this or that problem anyway." If you use that type of thinking, expect to get burned. I know this is tough, because if you are a cinema a/v freak often the slightest improvement may give you upgrade fever and thus you over-rationalize buying the inferior product.

Yeh, its only $20. But, if you want studios to stop this type of thing, first of all don't discount the opinions of people before a title is released, no matter the forum; bottom line is that sometimes people can often get things before street date, and in 99% of cases screencaps don't lie. Take all the info you can get before spending your hard-earned cash, if there is no info then you might just want to wait until there is. Second, realize that buying it because "it looks better than the DVD" only reinforces the studios behavior, as they will sell it to you again because "it looks better than the first blu-ray," and then again because "it looks better than the second blu-ray." Same goes for lack of directors cuts etc on releases which could easily be included but often ar not the first time around to maximize profits. If everyone buys the theatrical cut of movie A the first time when it is well known beforehand a DC exists, then rebuys the DC of movie A when that is released - well, what do you think the studio is gonna do with movie B that has two different cuts? The same exact thing to make money!

If you own the first release I'd bite the bullet and sell it on eBay while its still worth something rather than holding out for a program that may or may not happen. Sure, it might happen. But then again, the ones most upset with the Gladiator issues are likely also the ones that did not buy it or returned it as defective back when it was released. (Personally, I saw the threads on AVS and skipped it, glad I did). If Paramount recalled it now they would lose a lot of money, and it would likely be for people that didn't and still don't realize there was a problem or people who are willing to keep buying and rebuying the product despite quality issues . If I were in the corp making decisions, that sounds like a group I wouldn't be overly concerned about - because to the poster I quoted, someone does lose w/ a replacement program - the corp loses money... And sadly that is usually all that matters in the end.

Paramount isn't the only one guilty of releasing inferior product when better materials are readily available to save a buck/make a buck. In fact, the only studios I know of that don't do this are Criterion, Blue Underground, and Honneamise.

[Q?]

^^

Excellent post, damn excellent I must say

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by Ruined

I can understand the desire for a recall or a replacement program. However, it is worth mentioning that these are the exception, not the norm. They happen much more frequently early in a format's lifetime (i.e. not now) as the userbase is smaller (cheaper) and there is a need to keep the consumer happy so the product takes off.

Remember in the end, this is about business and making money, not about delivering the best product to the consumer. You might think that delivering the best product makes the most money, but time and time again shows people will (sometimes begrudgingly) buy a crappy release and then rebuy it when a better one comes out.

Now I don't mean to single anyone out, but here is a good example of a consumer asking for a replacement program:



And here is that same poster months ago when they were alerted to technical deficiencies with the transfer prior to buying it:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/2257179-post820.html


Now this is not the only poster who did this by a long shot - I saw a lot of posts with people buying this title on release date on this very forum saying 'hey its better than the dvd, I'm not gonna notice this or that problem anyway." If you use that type of thinking, expect to get burned. I know this is tough, because if you are a cinema a/v freak often the slightest improvement may give you upgrade fever and thus you over-rationalize buying the inferior product.

Yeh, its only $20. But, if you want studios to stop this type of thing, first of all don't discount the opinions of people before a title is released, no matter the forum; bottom line is that sometimes people can often get things before street date, and in 99% of cases screencaps don't lie. Take all the info you can get before spending your hard-earned cash, if there is no info then you might just want to wait until there is. Second, realize that buying it because "it looks better than the DVD" only reinforces the studios behavior, as they will sell it to you again because "it looks better than the first blu-ray," and then again because "it looks better than the second blu-ray." Same goes for lack of directors cuts etc on releases which could easily be included but often ar not the first time around to maximize profits. If everyone buys the theatrical cut of movie A the first time when it is well known beforehand a DC exists, then rebuys the DC of movie A when that is released - well, what do you think the studio is gonna do with movie B that has two different cuts? The same exact thing to make money!

If you own the first release I'd bite the bullet and sell it on eBay while its still worth something rather than holding out for a program that may or may not happen. Sure, it might happen. But then again, the ones most upset with the Gladiator issues are likely also the ones that did not buy it or returned it as defective back when it was released. (Personally, I saw the threads on AVS and skipped it, glad I did). If Paramount recalled it now they would lose a lot of money, and it would likely be for people that didn't and still don't realize there was a problem or people who are willing to keep buying and rebuying the product despite quality issues . If I were in the corp making decisions, that sounds like a group I wouldn't be overly concerned about - because to the poster I quoted, someone does lose w/ a replacement program - the corp loses money... And sadly that is usually all that matters in the end.

Paramount isn't the only one guilty of releasing inferior product when better materials are readily available to save a buck/make a buck. In fact, the only studios I know of that don't do this are Criterion, Blue Underground, and Honneamise.

Good post, and I have no issues with being singled out. (Aside from being referred to as "the poster" a half-dozen times...)

The problem is, you captured one of my posts that was pre-release and compared it to one other post-release post. You have not given all of my posts the same in-depth treatment, and I fear my positions will be taken out of context.

Had you reviewed all of my posts (instead of just searching for and using the ones that furthered your argument), you'd see that my position is really quite simple: I don't care if I get a replacement or not. I bought this knowing it had issues. BUT -- had I known that the studio would admit their error and re-release a better version in less than 8 months, I would have saved my money and bought the superior version.

Further, it's silly for anyone to oppose a replacement program. It's the classic case of "Well, I was smart enough to avoid it, shame on you, you deal with it, no one ever helps me when I make a mistake, yada yada yada." It's unfortunate when people actually take glee in other people's mistakes.

I actually care more about the people who bought it not knowing what I knew. THEY deserve a replacement. Not me.

[singhcr]

Replacement programs are often announced with little fanfare and you would really only be aware of them if you were in the industry or frequented a board such as this.

Did the common person know about the Back to the Future DVD recall?

The POTC BD framing recall?
Fifth Element?
Matrix Revolutions?
Starship Troopers?

The only obvious ones I could see would be Blade Runner or Harry Potter 1-5 as there were duplicate discs and discs missing or HD DVDs in place of BD's.

So if there were a recall for Gladiator, only a handful of discs would be replaced as the vast, vast majority of people who bought the movie would not even be aware of such a program.

[Chordata]

Good point, and I'm not sure who that benefits. Maybe they won't do it because they'll feel most people won't take advantage of their offer.

Conversely, maybe they will do it for the same reasons.

[STARSCREAM]

Well, my copy is sitting unwatched still sealed and if they don't offer a replacement program than I'm taking it to the store and exchanging it for the new version when it's released.

[bandit29]

From the front page

Blu-ray News


Gladiator Anniversary Edition Blu-ray for Germany

Posted March 9, 2010 09:19 AM by Juan Calonge

Universal Studios According to information from local retailers cited by HD site bluray-disc.de, the Germany branch of Universal Studios Home Entertainment will release Gladiator: 10th Anniversary Edition on Blu-ray on May 6, a week before the theatrical release of Ridley Scott's latest movie, Robin Hood. Bluray-disc.de also confirms that, due to the "inferior quality" of the first release, a "brand new" 1080p master will be used for this new edition.

disgusting

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by bandit29

From the front page



disgusting

I commend them for fixing the problem, whether you see the fix as an admission or not.

Wish I'd been more patient (perhaps clairvoyant is the word) and not bought this in September.

[Sussudio]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

I commend them for fixing the problem, whether you see the fix as an admission or not.

Wish I'd been more patient (perhaps clairvoyant is the word) and not bought this in September.

Exactly. Whether a replacement program is offered or not (I'm guessing not), I still applaud Paramount for fixing their mistake. Sometimes you just can't have it both ways, and I for one am at least glad a new version seems to be coming out.

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Sussudio

Sometimes you just can't have it both ways

Looks like Paramount can.

What bothers me most about this is that it appears that Paramount was in the process of remastering this at the same time they were shipping the inferior release to retailers. Why not just wait 6 months and release it correctly the first time? We all know why...

[Sussudio]

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

Looks like Paramount can.

What bothers me most about this is that it appears that Paramount was in the process of remastering this at the same time they were shipping the inferior release to retailers. Why not just wait 6 months and release it correctly the first time? We all know why...

Well I for one think it would be nice if they offered a replacement program and I have nothing against it, especially because of the many consumers not knowledgeable to the "lackluster" transfer....I'm just not holding my breath....

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Sussudio

Well I for one think it would be nice if they offered a replacement program and I have nothing against it, especially because of the many consumers not knowledgeable to the "lackluster" transfer....I'm just not holding my breath....

I'm not expecting a replacement program, but a coupon or rebate for those who bought the first release would be the ethical thing to do.