Gladiator (2000)

[Jumpman]

Here's a review...the best that Braveheart has probably ever looked. At least in the last 13 years...

[ack_bak]

Jumpman,

I don't necessarily disagree with you with regards to studios making mistakes and us not expecting perfection on every release. But this is Gladiator. It has won numerous Oscars and was hugely popular on DVD.

IMHO, a studio should be more inclined to treat these types of titles with white gloves vs just using some old master that is in bad shape and then applying additional digital filtering on after the fact to try and clean it up.

If we were talking about "Harry And The Hendersons" getting released on Blu-Ray, it would be one thing. But "Gladiator"? It deserves better. Look what Disney is doing with some of their classic animated titles. They are holding nothing back and are really going all out. I have no problem dropping $20+ on a catalog title that the studio has really put the time and effort into.

I really would wish that all the studios would take this into account regarding the classics and big name catalog releases on Blu-Ray.

[Stlsports]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

You may not have read it in this massive thread, but review screeners were not sent out by the studio. So if Blu-Ray.com and other sites do review it, it will be because one of the reviewers bought a copy and did the review (and I suspect that the screeners sent out by the studios get priority vs titles bought by the reviewer).

I see. So there should be a review just after it's released tomorrow.

[Philnerd]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

We expect perfect and sometimes perfect can not be achieved.

To be fair, I think a lot of picky videophiles actually aren't expecting perfect. What we do expect for the monies being asked are clean transfers that retain the film's detail and artistic intention. For instance, when The Holy Grail comes out on Blu-Ray and looks washed out and grainy I'll be 100% happy with it As I've pointed out there are many catalog releases that look absolutely fantastic on Blu-Ray; Princess Bride, Ghandi, Ghostbuster, etc.. all look like film prints. Heck, the new Braveheart release coming out alongside Gladiator appears by all measures to be stunning.

Originally Posted by Jumpman

With Gladiator, there are no excuses, IF, there is indeed a new transfer laying around somewhere.

Well I'd say I technically disagree because if they don't have a newer transfer laying around they need to make a better transfer to have laying around. Especially on MSRP $39.99 "Sapphire" series releases. Honestly I remember Amir making this argument on AVS a lot about some of Universal's less than stellar catalog titles. His point, if I recall, was essentially that we either get the release from the crappy old master or no HD release at all. I wasn't particularly keen on that argument then and its really not acceptible today with Blu-Ray's much expanded market - especially when referencing catalog titles that will sell in substantial volume.

Originally Posted by Jumpman

But, again, I go back to the question I raised, is it about the film itself and how you feel about that film and what enjoyment you get out of it or is it about getting it perfect?

Well this is the tricky part isn't it? The problem here is that we can technically enjoy films on iPods, HULU or DVD. The reason to get the Blu-Ray is because we want to enjoy the film *and* have it presented in a "perfect" way Again, "perfect" meaning that the film's integrity has not been compromised.

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Again, this is why I wouldn't want to be in the position of George Lucas when those Blu-Rays of Star Wars eventually come out.

Haha, hopefully we'll still find out in our lifetimes how they look on Blu-Ray

Good post by the way, hope I'm not coming across as being antagonistic.

[MosHighDef]

early blockbuster rental from my buddy. I watched it this morning. I really tried to look for the fire arrows in the beginning and i didnt notice a thing! However at times some of the faces did seem waxy, Russel Crowes face just doesnt have the same texture like even an old ass movie like Donnie Brasco and Casino have on the details of their face.

Overall i think it was an upgrade and the sound was on point, but it definetly could of been a better transfer for such an epic movie.

[DetroitSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Stlsports

So is this site gonna review this and Braveheart or not. Seems like for big titles like this they would have them reviewd by now.

Most of the review sites haven't received their copies yet. Wonder why...

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by Stlsports

I see. So there should be a review just after it's released tomorrow.

Again, it depends whether or not a reviewer goes out and buys it, and whether or not this movie is in the queue for reviewing. I don't know specifically about Blu-Ray.com, but many review sites will put the priority on the movies they received from the studios first (ie screeners).

But both this movie and Braveheart are pretty high profile. So I would suspect that we should see reviews popping up over the next couple of weeks.

[Jumpman]

Phil,

Not antagonistic at all. I again, I see the points. I mean, you pretty much are spot on when it comes to the definition of what Blu-Ray is and what we, as a community, have defined it...the integrity of the film and its intentions preserved.

For me, I pretty back and forth on it because, technically, we're not getting the film as its meant to be seen by the director, meaning we're not getting 4k. We're getting theatrical presentations on Blu-Ray and I'm of the opinion that Blu-Ray, depending on the set up, has pass the theatrical presentation.

Side track there, but I just personally think, some times our criticisms go too far on the forums. As much as I like talking about the technical aspects of these discs, sometimes, we forget about the fun of watching films we love. And, I for one, can't see myself not buying a film if there are a few minor or half major problems with a transfer.

I'd be all about boycotting Gladiator if Crowe's hair was purple the whole film. And yes, the arrows situation at the beginning battle are a problem. But, I go back to the film and those two seconds can't destroy the rest of the film for me, no matter the condition of the transfer.

With Gladiator, it looks like we're getting something that is an improvement over the DVD but not the vast improvement this title probably should've got. I can handle that because life is short. Too many important things other than Blu-Rays are going on. Not to belittle the situation. It is a problem...that looks like it could be rectified.

You mentioned Braveheart. Yeah, it is that great. Watched it last night on Blu-Ray. Admittedly, I wasn't impressed with the first 10 minutes or so. But once Mel Gibson physically shows up on screen, the film just starts to pop. It gets down right beautiful in those wide panoramic shots of Scotland.

God, I wish I had a 50 inch LED.

[sharkcohen]

Originally Posted by Philnerd

Not necessarly targeting you Jumpman, but you got me thinking. What was all the goings on about during the format war about better bandwidth and capacity compared to HD DVD if we've now arrived at "go with what we got"? Earlier in the thread Penton tells us to buy smaller TVs, sit further back or get a new hobby. And several people in this thread seem giddy at the fact that this will sell well on Blu-Ray despite being a flawed transfer.

At what point did 50GB of storage and massive bandwidth take a back seat to the color of the case?? Is there a good reason *not* to complain to studios about poor transfers? Is there a good reason *not* to acknowledge when that's the case? It really seems like a studio can slap just about any transfer onto Blu-Ray and there will be insiders here proclaiming how great it is to get something that's an upgrade over Blu-Ray. Or a bunch of users that refuse to see any flaws. Or a bunch of users that just go "good enough". Geez we could make the same arguments for HULU HD streaming.

I totally understand the people in the thread that accept the flaws in this transfer and will live with it and still enjoy it. I bet a lot of them will actually take the time to drop a complaint at Paramount and claim their remasterd version when/if it becomes available. But the people that either (a) deny there are issues altogether or (b) think we should just settle for half-baked studio efforts on Blu-Ray.... I don't get that.

Exactly. I thought the 'good enough' argument was the mentality of that 'other' format. As supporters of Blu-ray, should we not be insisting that the studios at least give 'best effort'? To create this 'Sapphire Series' label and then release a product on it that looks like this is hardly best effort.

[Jumpman]

ack bak,

You make a good point with Disney. I mean, we are seeing some catalogs that are note perfect. And considering Braveheart was getting released on the same day, we all had great expectations about this double bill of two great films.

Considering the complete presentation of Gladiator (the audio, along with the supplements), I still think this worth a purchase, even if a pristine transfer happens in a few years...only because of the film itself and the fact that its not a sure thing we'll get Gladiator again.

I can live with whatever this disc has in store...even if I secretly wish for something better...because of the film itself.

[kiskiboy97]

Just to clarify the review situation:

We haven't received screeners, yet, even though Paramount is usually very good at getting us titles 2-3 weeks before street (though we still don't have Dance Flick yet, either).

I'll be at Target at 8AM tomorrow morning to buy both Braveheart and Gladiator and I'll review one tomorrow and one Wednesday. 3 hour movie + loads of extras = one day of work each.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by kiskiboy97

Just to clarify the review situation:

We haven't received screeners, yet, even though Paramount is usually very good at getting us titles 2-3 weeks before street (though we still don't have Dance Flick yet, either).

I'll be at Target at 8AM tomorrow morning to buy both Braveheart and Gladiator and I'll review one tomorrow and one Wednesday. 3 hour movie + loads of extras = one day of work each.

Thanks! We appreciate you dropping your own coin and posting the review and sacrificing your time.

[Jimbo976]

I'm all for some of you folks "insisting" and "writing letters" and "burning Blu-ray cases in front of the studio" and "writing your congressman" and such if that's what you want to do. If you think it will make a difference then go ahead. I personally have no interest in all that stuff. If it works and some day new versions of all the movies that are subpar come out I'll consider buying them and maybe remember to thank you. I'm pretty skeptical that any of it all with have more than zero impact but who knows eh?

In the meantime i'll continue to buy the Blu-ray versions of movies I like and watch them. If some are really bad to me then i'll try to sell or trade them but that hasn't happened very often yet for me. Yes I do sit close enough to see flaws in many releases but if I enjoy the movie enough I am happy enough. I don't own anything on DVD so it's not like there is a question of upgrading something I already have.

[Jimbo976]

Thanks kiskiboy97 for the update. I'm anxious to read more reviews since I won't get my copies for a week or so.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

ack bak,

You make a good point with Disney. I mean, we are seeing some catalogs that are note perfect. And considering Braveheart was getting released on the same day, we all had great expectations about this double bill of two great films.

Considering the complete presentation of Gladiator (the audio, along with the supplements), I still think this worth a purchase, even if a pristine transfer happens in a few years...only because of the film itself and the fact that its not a sure thing we'll get Gladiator again.

I can live with whatever this disc has in store...even if I secretly wish for something better...because of the film itself.

And I appreciate the fact that you are an informed consumer. I think everybody has the right to buy whatever the hell they want as long as they have the info. I will not chastise anybody for buying Gladiator on Blu-Ray as long as they have an idea of what they are getting. Just like I would not want someone to chastise me for not buying and just giving it a rent first.

[Eternalnow]

I think I'll still be picking this up. I had no problems with Dark City, which was widely panned for its non film like quality.

[sfmarine]

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

The transfer will be "fixed" when the eventual double dip comes down the road.

Yup...probably 2010...for the 10 anniversary...

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by sfmarine

Yup...probably 2010...for the 10 anniversary...

Little soon, if they had a transfer that good they wouldn't bring out this poor one now, they'd wait.

[Jimbo976]

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

The transfer will be "fixed" when the eventual double dip comes down the road.

DSF speaks the truth. It may not even happen then but we'll see.

[bandit29]

Yet another Gladiator thread