Spartacus (1960) (Restored Edition)

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by Eny-

The question is: should I gamble and wait for an eventual Criterion release or shouldn't I get my hopes up and buy this now?

I think the gambling was already done by those of us, myself included, when the first release was out.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Eny-

The question is: should I gamble and wait for an eventual Criterion release or shouldn't I get my hopes up and buy this now?

I don't see what more Criterion could add to it in terms of extras between the new features on this restored disc and what's on the 2-disc DVD that I have. As for PQ differences, that's a can o' worms best not touched until such time as Criterion actually do their own version on Blu.

[Jobla]

I skipped Universal's first Blu-ray of this. I won't be skipping the new Blu-ray!

[L'armée des ombres]

I also stayed clear of the first Uni release for obvious reasons.
Owning the CC DVD version i thought it would be worth it and it was (i hope)...finally since it's one of my all time favs.
(I'll be keeping the CC one)

[tallrichard]

Originally Posted by Bolty

A few numbers crunched. Rounded to the nearest minute.

The movie premiered at 202 mintues on Thursday October 6, 1960 in NYC.

shortly afterward it was cut by 17+ minutes to 184 minutes to remove "gore" that the premiere audience supposedly objected to, as well as the suggestive scene between Olivier and Curtis and a few others----
Laughton committing suicide, Laughton and Gavin at the fish market, a long moving shot of the war dead, the slave army "long march" across Italy including a couple burying their infant.

In 1991 they restored 12+ minutes of the cut footage, bringing it back up to 197+ minutes. All the above were restored with the exception of Laughton and Gavin in the fish market and Laughton committing suicide---which remain lost.

They did find the portions of the audio for those two scenes and they have been included in deleted scenes sections in the past.

The deleted scenes that have been featured before on home video are not deleted scenes in the usual sense----cut from the movie before release.

They are snippets cut after the initial release and not able to be restored to the premiere cut version for lack of film elements.

The only exception is an alternate version of the scene of Douglas and Simmons first encounter in his cell from the POV of Ustinov and McGraw.

There are a few more restored shots that I can't think of off the top of my head without watching the movie.

Forgive me for using the actors names---I know I would mess up the spelling of the character's names.

For me, it's going to a long 2 months!

But from first seeing this movie on TV in the late 1960s butchered down to 161 minutes to fit into a 3 1/2 hour time slot---it will be worth it.

The recut had more to do with the bath scene with Tony and Larry than the gore...

Of 17 mins, the bath scene uncut was almost 10....

[pross]

Originally Posted by Bolty

A few numbers crunched. Rounded to the nearest minute.

The movie premiered at 202 mintues on Thursday October 6, 1960 in NYC.

shortly afterward it was cut by 17+ minutes to 184 minutes to remove "gore" that the premiere audience supposedly objected to, as well as the suggestive scene between Olivier and Curtis and a few others----
Laughton committing suicide, Laughton and Gavin at the fish market, a long moving shot of the war dead, the slave army "long march" across Italy including a couple burying their infant.

In 1991 they restored 12+ minutes of the cut footage, bringing it back up to 197+ minutes. All the above were restored with the exception of Laughton and Gavin in the fish market and Laughton committing suicide---which remain lost.

They did find the portions of the audio for those two scenes and they have been included in deleted scenes sections in the past.

The deleted scenes that have been featured before on home video are not deleted scenes in the usual sense----cut from the movie before release.

They are snippets cut after the initial release and not able to be restored to the premiere cut version for lack of film elements.

The only exception is an alternate version of the scene of Douglas and Simmons first encounter in his cell from the POV of Ustinov and McGraw.

There are a few more restored shots that I can't think of off the top of my head without watching the movie.

Forgive me for using the actors names---I know I would mess up the spelling of the character's names.

For me, it's going to a long 2 months!

But from first seeing this movie on TV in the late 1960s butchered down to 161 minutes to fit into a 3 1/2 hour time slot---it will be worth it.

Spartacus premiered at the running time of 196 minutes including Overture, Entr'acte and Exit music. The 202 minute version was the preview version. The 196 minute version is missing many scenes filmed and ultimately cut by Kirk Douglas and/or Stanley Kubrick the most famous one between John Gavin and Charles Laughton which is detailed on the Criterion DVD.

Other cut scenes...I'm not sure whether they were all part of the preview cut of 202 minutes...
1. Extended scene between Laughton and Ustinov discussing women of all sizes etc with conversation with 2 of these women. Photos available on advertising material.
2. Draba's hanging body being removed after the revolt of the gladiators.
3. Varinia giving birth. Alex North scored this scene . Available on one bootleg version of the soundtrack.
4. After Spartacus kills Antoninus he is dragged and shown being crucified. Another scene scored by North that is on the Varese soundtrack.

Detailed oriented fans of Spartacus should be able to pick out the scene in which Crassus speaks to his generals prior to the battle. In the original trailer that scene is shown in its original form explaining that Spartacus has defeated 9 Roman armies and their defeat will mean the defeat of Rome. That was cut and re filmed almost a year later with the scene as it now stands in the film.

The statement of an additional 12 minutes is very misleading to say the least. RAH in his restoration was able to add back 4 minutes of the film. That plus the music cues add up to the 12 minutes bringing the film back to its premiere version but not the preview version that RAH really wanted to restore...

[Brian81]

Originally Posted by Eny-

The question is: should I gamble and wait for an eventual Criterion release or shouldn't I get my hopes up and buy this now?

Universal release would probably have better PQ anyways.


Universal has been known for digital manipulation to try and repurpose old ugly masters, but when they're doing something new or based off a new master, it's generally very good. Just as good as anybody.

[pross]

Originally Posted by Bolty

So the 202 minutes version was the "preview" cut.
And 197 version was the premiere version.
And after the premiere they cut another 12 or so minutes that were part actual footage and part music cues ( overture, entr'acte).

Very interesting. That would explain why the 12 minutes was found and the other 5+ never were---- since they were removed at different times.

It is misleadind to say 12 minutes when some of it was simply music, but I'm glad they did add back those cues.

I must say that if Douglas and or Kubrick didn't want those last 5 or so minutes in--- then I guess it's good they weren't.

Weird that after the preview they cut the two scenes with Laughton, but left in the bath scene and the bloodier battle scenes and then after the premiere they censored those scenes.

Charles Laughton was so upset about his role being cut down he threatened to sue Kirk Douglas. When he was hired he was promised that his role would be as large as Laurence Olivier's. Spartacus went through many versions, rewrites and reshoots. Unfortunately all deleted scenes were trashed. RAH really wanted to restore as much as he could. The 4 minutes is all he found.
From what I've seen and read about it really is a shame that Spartacus couldn't be extended further...

Spartacus was always under scrutiny as far as the censors were concerned. The Legion of Decency was a big deal in the late 50's and though Douglas fought them he ultimately cut the more violent gory scenes. Which are quite tame by today's standards.

[sartana]

Originally Posted by Retroj23

As a Kubrick fan I'm ashamed to say that i have never seen this film, please be easy on me .

If the price is right I will blind buy.

Don't be ashamed. This film is not really a Kubrick film per say, since he did not have real control.

[Mr.Twinks]

Never owned this classic on disc so preorder for me!

[Jobla]

Circa 1965 (give or take a year), Seattle got a reissue double-bill of THE ALAMO and SPARTACUS. Both of those editions seemed to be missing at least half an hour of footage, and thus were disappointments (I had attended both of them during their first-run engagements).

[popeflick]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There have long been deleted scenes included alongside the 1991 version, they were debuted on the Criterion DVD and have been repurposed on various releases ever since. The fact that the deleted scenes feature on the back of the cover hasn't been included with the "Blu-ray Exclusive" (in other words: new) extras kinda gives that away.

Thx, didn't know that or forgot.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by sartana

Don't be ashamed. This film is not really a Kubrick film per say, since he did not have real control.

Yea.......for me, the movie doesn't feel like a Kubrick movie at all, which I'm actually glad about. It's feeling is pretty much in line with most sword and sandal movies of that 50's-60's era. Not that Kubrick is bad, hardly......but for me, I think his brand of trademark style seen in later films would not work in this.

[Starman22]

This is my favorite film and I never own DVD (I seen it in VHS and TCM) and will happy to pick up someday... so One Day for me!

[Robert Harris]

[QUOTE=pross;11100181]Spartacus premiered at the running time of 196 minutes including Overture, Entr'acte and Exit music. The 202 minute version was the preview version. The 196 minute version is missing many scenes filmed and ultimately cut by Kirk Douglas and/or Stanley Kubrick the most famous one between John Gavin and Charles Laughton which is detailed on the Criterion DVD.

Other cut scenes...I'm not sure whether they were all part of the preview cut of 202 minutes...
1. Extended scene between Laughton and Ustinov discussing women of all sizes etc with conversation with 2 of these women. Photos available on advertising material.

This sequence was never removed.

2. Draba's hanging body being removed after the revolt of the gladiators.

Not in 202 cut

3. Varinia giving birth. Alex North scored this scene . Available on one bootleg version of the soundtrack.

Not in 202 cut

4. After Spartacus kills Antoninus he is dragged and shown being crucified. Another scene scored by North that is on the Varese soundtrack.

Not in 202 cut

RAH

[Geoff D]

And just like that, he's gone. I wish you'd stay a while RAH, but I know your allegiance lies elsewhere.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

And just like that, he's gone

RAH = Keyser Söze

[infiniteCR]

Does "not in 202 cut" imply those scenes are the real deleted scenes that never showed?

[Geoff D]

Oh, there's plenty of stuff that's never been seen since. Unfortunately, the gentleman who could give as authoritative a viewpoint as any on this matter doesn't like posting here a whole heck of a lot.

[infiniteCR]

There's no better place on the internet than here to talk about these films that I've ever seen