Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Because it was on the DVD and Lucasfilm omitted most of the (excellent) DVD features from the (heh) 'Complete Saga' Blus. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

I remember feeling shafted when there were just a bunch of short clips on the Blu-ray movie discs...and of course, the galleries, but those are dumb.

I wonder how much of the DVD stuff is on YT. I might have to do a bit of searching.

I greatly prefer these long documentaries over the stupid 5-8 minute segments.

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I think originality isn't a necessity if it's done well, especially if the intent is to re-establish a story after a long time gap like Star Wars. The Force Awakens may not be very original in its basic plot, but it was done so well very few people really mind.

Bingo. I found the story original enough and feel like this issue is being exaggerated.

As far as stealing/paying homage to the OT, Lucas did it first in the prequels.

[Geoff D]

It's not so much the "basic plot" though for me, as there's 1001 movies which go through the typical Campbellian story arcs of the reluctant hero discovering their worth etc etc. For me it's the reuse of the exact same Star Wars beats specifically: the message being hidden in the droid which must be taken to rebel command, the Death Star mk. III which just happens to have another serious design flaw, the assault of the X-wings on said Death Star (jeez, even in the original film we got the variation of the Y-wings as well!) etc. And it's not just from ANH either, there's also the mysterious leader lording it over his underlings with a massive hologram direct from ESB and the movie ends with someone else in the Falcon's pilot's seat jetting off to recover one of our lost heroes.

I really wanted to see a new Star Wars film, not Now That's What I Call Star Wars™ 2015, and for better or worse no-one can say that the prequels are such vapid retreads of the originals. They use some similar beats, yes, but are often subverted in interesting ways. Hell, I consider Star Trek '09 to be a far superior Star Wars remake precisely because it takes so many familiar tropes and puts its own spin on them, it's as if JJ had the freedom to do that there whereas with TFA his hands were tied. I don't even consider the casting of TFA to be particularly subversive, as it's not like Leia was a shrinking violet in ANH and for all the difference Rey's gender makes (aside from the hand holding gag) she could be male, female, interspecies, whatever (same goes for Phasma) and as for Finn: we've never seen a black guy initially on the side of the bad guys who pulls a switcheroo in Star Wars before, have we?

Add to that the two most exciting pieces of music being those lifted directly from previous films (opening title and the bit when

[Show spoiler]Rey grasps the 'saber

) with the rest of it being Williams Wallpaper and there was nothing truly 'new' about this film that excited me at all. Do I "hate" it? No, it's too slickly made for that and if I can bear to own STID then I'll surely form a similar begrudging attachment to this film over time, out of duty to a franchise that I love more than anything. I wanna watch it again (only caught it the once so far ) to see if my initial thoughts ring true, so when hits my local indie cinema in about three weeks time I'll be there.

[rickah88]

Yes TL;DR.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

[Show spoiler]It's not so much the "basic plot" though for me, as there's 1001 movies which go through the typical Campbellian story arcs of the reluctant hero discovering their worth etc etc. For me it's the reuse of the exact same Star Wars beats specifically: the message being hidden in the droid which must be taken to rebel command, the Death Star mk. III which just happens to have another serious design flaw, the assault of the X-wings on said Death Star (jeez, even in the original film we got the variation of the Y-wings as well!) etc. And it's not just from ANH either, there's also the mysterious leader lording it over his underlings with a massive hologram direct from ESB and the movie ends with someone else in the Falcon's pilot's seat jetting off to recover one of our lost heroes.

I really wanted to see a new Star Wars film, not Now That's What I Call Star Wars™ 2015, and for better or worse no-one can say that the prequels are such vapid retreads of the originals. They use some similar beats, yes, but are often subverted in interesting ways. Hell, I consider Star Trek '09 to be a far superior Star Wars remake precisely because it takes so many familiar tropes and puts its own spin on them, it's as if JJ had the freedom to do that there whereas with TFA his hands were tied. I don't even consider the casting of TFA to be particularly subversive, as it's not like Leia was a shrinking violet in ANH and for all the difference Rey's gender makes (aside from the hand holding gag) she could be male, female, interspecies, whatever (same goes for Phasma) and as for Finn: we've never seen a black guy initially on the side of the bad guys who pulls a switcheroo in Star Wars before, have we?

Add to that the two most exciting pieces of music being those lifted directly from previous films (opening title and the bit when

[Show spoiler]Rey grasps the 'saber

) with the rest of it being Williams Wallpaper and there was nothing truly 'new' about this film that excited me at all. Do I "hate" it? No, it's too slickly made for that and if I can bear to own STID then I'll surely form a similar begrudging attachment to this film over time, out of duty to a franchise that I love more than anything. I wanna watch it again (only caught it the once so far ) to see if my initial thoughts ring true, so when hits my local indie cinema in about three weeks time I'll be there.

I respect and mostly agree with your position, but I still loved it. SW needed this. BADLY. Now that the foundation's been laid and Disney has hooked all us fish, hopefully the following films will continue to feel like the SW we all knew and loved back between '77-'83, while going off in new directions with fresh stories that don't draw on the past so heavily.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by BouCoupDinkyDau

I respect and mostly agree with your position, but I still loved it. SW needed this. BADLY. Now that the foundation's been laid and Disney has hooked all us fish, hopefully the following films will continue to feel like the SW we all knew and loved back between '77-'83, while going off in new directions with fresh stories that don't draw on the past so heavily.

Cheers for the reply. I guess I'm the one that wriggled off the hook!

[Sylentwolf]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I think originality isn't a necessity if it's done well, especially if the intent is to re-establish a story after a long time gap like Star Wars. The Force Awakens may not be very original in its basic plot, but it was done so well very few people really mind.

Jurassic World? In my opinion it was okay and entertaining, but it lacked the build-up and suspense the first one had, plus the dinosaurs looked more like phony cgi most of the time. That was my complaint with that film, anyway, not the callbacks to the original.

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

Bingo. I found the story original enough and feel like this issue is being exaggerated.

As far as stealing/paying homage to the OT, Lucas did it first in the prequels.

I agree on all terms.

I didn't mind the entire movie from beginning to end. It captured my attention from beginning to end, and it never let go. There was enough "Originallity" that did make it different, Captain Phasma (

[Show spoiler]as a significant female character

), Finn (

[Show spoiler]a First Order Stormtrooper gone rogue

), Poe (

[Show spoiler] a Resistance pilot, who is not a Jedi in any way, shape, or form

), and Rey (

[Show spoiler]a female lead character who is not an officer or a princess

). All of which I can't wait to see again in Episode VIII (although we are still not sure how each character may be used, or if they will have any significant time on screen as they did in Episode VII )

I do agree that scenes/usage of "Ships" and "Planets," after a 30 year gap between the two 'Episodes' maybe or should have been used more vividly and creatively; Although, I did like how each scene of Jakku and Takodana help illustrate the structure of each planet and the living conditions of significant characters. I have to remember, maybe even within our own Universe (which has yet to be proven) Star Wars has shown many planets, after 30 years and 7 films later, which shows a galaxy that has similarities (Jakku, Naboo, Takodana, Tatooine) and some differences (Bespin, Dagobah, Hoth, Takodana, Endor). If J.J. Abrams did decide to do just that, maybe we would be criticizing him for trying to mimic George Lucas' prequel settings This was a "fan flared" film that was done quite well, if not, close to very well. But I believe that Rian Johnson could create something even more compelling to fans and audiences that will have you giving the film a 4.5/5 or 5/5 I hope that J.J. and Co. helped escalate Rian Johnson' chances at directing a more diverse and complex story. But we all know that at the end of the day, Episode VIII will be Disney's 'Empire Strikes Back.'

I hear that they will begin filming Episode VIII (yet to be titled) some time this month

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Add to that the two most exciting pieces of music being those lifted directly from previous films (opening title and the bit when

[Show spoiler]Rey grasps the 'saber

) with the rest of it being Williams Wallpaper and there was nothing truly 'new' about this film that excited me at all.

The music was a real disappointment. The trailer used it better, and nothing new was that memorable. I was really bummed about that aspect of it.

I mostly agree with everything else you wrote too, but like Jurassic World and Terminator Genisys I still enjoyed the film as a simple nostalgia-stroking dumb fun movie. They're all pretty much equal to me, which I am sure many would bristle at. Only Mad Max rose above those simple pleasures to real amazing movie status for me.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's not so much the "basic plot" though for me, as there's 1001 movies which go through the typical Campbellian story arcs of the reluctant hero discovering their worth etc etc. For me it's the reuse of the exact same Star Wars beats specifically: the message being hidden in the droid which must be taken to rebel command, the Death Star mk. III which just happens to have another serious design flaw, the assault of the X-wings on said Death Star (jeez, even in the original film we got the variation of the Y-wings as well!) etc. And it's not just from ANH either, there's also the mysterious leader lording it over his underlings with a massive hologram direct from ESB and the movie ends with someone else in the Falcon's pilot's seat jetting off to recover one of our lost heroes.

I really wanted to see a new Star Wars film, not Now That's What I Call Star Wars™ 2015, and for better or worse no-one can say that the prequels are such vapid retreads of the originals. They use some similar beats, yes, but are often subverted in interesting ways. Hell, I consider Star Trek '09 to be a far superior Star Wars remake precisely because it takes so many familiar tropes and puts its own spin on them, it's as if JJ had the freedom to do that there whereas with TFA his hands were tied. I don't even consider the casting of TFA to be particularly subversive, as it's not like Leia was a shrinking violet in ANH and for all the difference Rey's gender makes (aside from the hand holding gag) she could be male, female, interspecies, whatever (same goes for Phasma) and as for Finn: we've never seen a black guy initially on the side of the bad guys who pulls a switcheroo in Star Wars before, have we?

Add to that the two most exciting pieces of music being those lifted directly from previous films (opening title and the bit when

[Show spoiler]Rey grasps the 'saber

) with the rest of it being Williams Wallpaper and there was nothing truly 'new' about this film that excited me at all. Do I "hate" it? No, it's too slickly made for that and if I can bear to own STID then I'll surely form a similar begrudging attachment to this film over time, out of duty to a franchise that I love more than anything. I wanna watch it again (only caught it the once so far ) to see if my initial thoughts ring true, so when hits my local indie cinema in about three weeks time I'll be there.

i feel almost EXACTLY the same way

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

The music was a real disappointment. The trailer used it better, and nothing new was that memorable. I was really bummed about that aspect of it.

I mostly agree with everything else you wrote too, but like Jurassic World and Terminator Genisys I still enjoyed the film as a simple nostalgia-stroking dumb fun movie. They're all pretty much equal to me, which I am sure many would bristle at. Only Mad Max rose above those simple pleasures to real amazing movie status for me.

I still say that Genisys did it wrong: instead of just remaking the first few minutes of Terminator they should've redone the whole thing, then the box office takings would've flowed like water if JW and TFA are any indication. [/cynical hat on]

Still, I actually enjoyed Genisys the last time I watched it, my Fanboy Disappointment™ clearly having died down since the first time, though I've yet to approach JW again.

Agreed about Fury Road being a stunner, but what made that so special from a story POV (even though it was yet another Mad Max 2 reboot/remake) was precisely because it wasn't Max's film, it was Furiosa's. Max just happened to be passin' on through.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Still, I actually enjoyed Genisys the last time I watched it, my Fanboy Disappointment™ clearly having died down since the first time, though I've yet to approach JW again.

I enjoyed JW more the second go, because I wasn't expecting a good movie that time. Genisys I never expected a good movie, which is maybe why I got something out of it. Force Awakens I literally went in with no expectations at all and walked out satisfied but not impressed.

[happydood]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

The music was a real disappointment. The trailer used it better, and nothing new was that memorable. I was really bummed about that aspect of it.

I mostly agree with everything else you wrote too, but like Jurassic World and Terminator Genisys I still enjoyed the film as a simple nostalgia-stroking dumb fun movie. They're all pretty much equal to me, which I am sure many would bristle at. Only Mad Max rose above those simple pleasures to real amazing movie status for me.

Oh no! Did you listen to the score on it's own as well? I thought the score was the best thing about the movie. But A) I'm also an unapologetic John Williams worshiper, B) I'm a musician and C) I probably gave the prequels a pass because I first and foremost am listening to the music in these movies as my emotional window into them. I easily ignored a lot of the stilted dialogue for this reason.

Rey's theme as a single little concert piece particularly stands out to me.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Only Mad Max rose above those simple pleasures to real amazing movie status for me.

It was still a soft reboot just like TFA is. They basically turned the tanker chase into an entire film. A glorious film, mind you, but a retread all the same.

Originally Posted by happydood

Oh no! Did you listen to the score on it's own as well? I thought the score was the best thing about the movie. But A) I'm also an unapologetic John Williams worshiper, B) I'm a musician and C) I probably gave the prequels a pass because I first and foremost am listening to the music in these movies as my emotional window into them. I easily ignored a lot of the stilted dialogue for this reason.

Rey's theme as a single little concert piece particularly stands out to me.

I liked the score quite a bit as well. It gets lost in the film itself, but when you hear it on it's own it's quite good, with a couple good themes and a few great cues. It gives future composers a lot of work with if Williams does not score the other two.

I particularly like the trumpets when Chewy fires his bowcaster at Kylo.

[spanky87]

I love these two pieces from the score.

John Williams - Rey's Theme (Audio Only) - YouTube

John Williams - The Jedi Steps and Finale (Audio Only) - YouTube

I feel like Rey's theme is just as good as Leia's theme in A New Hope. I've listened to it many times in the past few weeks.

The last scene of the film is my favorite scene of 2015, and "Jedi Steps" really helped in making that moment feel so magical and majestic.

[Underworld54]

Absolutely a mediocre film. If it wasn't for Rey (who is awesome) the movie would be useless.

[Blu-Benny]

can't wait for tomorrow.....taking the kids to the 9:40am showing.

[MifuneFan]

This is really cool

YouTube

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

No, he was full CGI, then they brought up the idea of head replacement to save money, then head replacement ended up costing more anyway. I just watched the doc a couple months ago. There's that long early scene where Lucas colors in all the stuff that will be CGI on the storyboards and it's more than half the movie and all the ILM guys are freaking out. Lucas is talking about revolution and changing the industry constantly in that doc.

You have yet to back up your theory. Otherwise, you are just spreading misinformation.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

You have yet to back up your theory. Otherwise, you are just spreading misinformation.

He watched it in a doc. That's pretty much as backed up as you can get. But at the end of the day, why does it all matter, it's not like you two are scholars writing and academic piece, it's an Internet forum.

[Agent Bond]

I forgot to mention that I also enjoyed seeing Bad Ass Stormtrooper. I hope to see him again in the sequel.