Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[chip75]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I wonder how long before the release of the film the merchandise will start rolling out? I remember when The Phantom Menace action figures first went on sale there was a line coming out of Wal-Mart at midnight. They had the shelves covered in black cloths and then at midnight unveiled everything. Had them roped off too. It was like Elvis or The Beatles were behind there.

I'm looking forward to the new Art Of and Making Of books. Revenge of the Sith had some great books full of spoilers!

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I wonder how long before the release of the film the merchandise will start rolling out? I remember when The Phantom Menace action figures first went on sale there was a line coming out of Wal-Mart at midnight. They had the shelves covered in black cloths and then at midnight unveiled everything. Had them roped off too. It was like Elvis or The Beatles were behind there.

Well, given that apparently so many were disappointed with the prequels, and how many of those people queuing were too old to be playing with action figures, perhaps the lines won't be quite so long this time.

Maybe the prequels unwittingly did those fans a favour; they've lowered expectations to the point were Abrams's film might actually be enjoyed on the basis that people will expect it to be terrible and it will only turn out to be bad.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by chip75

I'm looking forward to the new Art Of and Making Of books. Revenge of the Sith had some great books full of spoilers!

I never bought any of the books before seeing the films, but I made up for it the day after. And the Art Of books were so good that ever haters appreciate them even if they still dislike the films.

As I said earlier, they're chock full of excellent unused ideas and concepts.

[simonynwa]

Originally Posted by Blu Warrior

This is the Episode VII thread. Stop talking about all the other episodes and rights and what not. You people are pathetic.

How dare we discuss Star Wars in a thread for a film which relies on its connection to the very thing we are discussing at a time when there is very little of the actual film being made to discuss. Forums go where they go - if u don't like the discussion don't contribute and I'm sure when something relevant to episode VII that is actually worth discussing comes up it will be discussed.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by simonynwa

How dare we discuss Star Wars in a thread for a film which relies on its connection to the very thing we are discussing at a time when there is very little of the actual film being made to discuss. Forums go where they go - if u don't like the discussion don't contribute and I'm sure when something relevant to episode VII that is actually worth discussing comes up it will be discussed.

I wonder what Harrison Ford had for breakfast this morning?

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by simonynwa

He is a little hypocritical, given his arguments for historical preservation in the past, but then to me the whole thing is so out of proportion on both sides it is quite ridiculous.

His argument was against third parties coming in and messing with someone else's work, like studio executives or producers demanding changes against the creator's intent. Lucas created "Star Wars" mostly alone, directed the original, hired and supervised the directors for "Empire" and "Jedi", and owned the whole ball of wax outright until the Disney sale. As such, he was perfectly within his rights, both legal and creative, to do whatever he wanted with his creations and redistribute them to the public. No one had to see the new versions if they didn't want to; that was on them, not Lucas. He was going by the old adage of "films are never completed, only abandoned", and every time technology made another improvement possible, he ran with it.

I like the Special Editions for the most part, but the new song in "Jedi" sucks. I wouldn't really care much either way, if Disney decided to stick with those or release the theatrical cuts. I like "Star Wars", but it isn't my world or my life. I'm not a purist when it comes to things like that.

[simonynwa]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The responsibility I speak of isn't about him changing them because that's well within his rights as the creator and owner of the work; it's about not preserving the Academy-Award winning originals and basically treating them as if they don't exist. (You might not mind the changes but some people most certainly do. I like some, but not all of them and most of the Blu-ray alterations were particularly atrocious.) Still, Kubrick suppressed A Clockwork Orange in the UK up until his death and I don't see many people slating him for that (it seems as if us Brits have forgotten about that completely) so I guess it just depends how well-loved a filmmaker actually is when they pull shit like that. (Yes, I know Kubrick got death threats etc but you think he would've considered releasing it again after nearly 25 years!)

I get why - I actually think some of the changes are awful, but what I meant was that in the grand scheme of the film as a whole they have very little effect. All the people who want the originals arguing for its posterity and historical significance will eventually get it - and they will watch it a few times and it will be just like before. Still I'm sure there will eventually be a release just may take a while

[Kaiju]

Originally Posted by Blu Warrior

This is the Episode VII thread. Stop talking about all the other episodes and rights and what not. You people are pathetic.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I wonder how long before the release of the film the merchandise will start rolling out? I remember when The Phantom Menace action figures first went on sale there was a line coming out of Wal-Mart at midnight. They had the shelves covered in black cloths and then at midnight unveiled everything. Had them roped off too. It was like Elvis or The Beatles were behind there.

I was there, first in line. I waited seven hours and there were 300-400 people behind me in line. It was a lot of fun. I spent way too much money.

[simonynwa]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

His argument was against third parties coming in and messing with someone else's work, like studio executives or producers demanding changes against the creator's intent. Lucas created "Star Wars" mostly alone, directed the original, hired and supervised the directors for "Empire" and "Jedi", and owned the whole ball of wax outright until the Disney sale. As such, he was perfectly within his rights, both legal and creative, to do whatever he wanted with his creations and redistribute them to the public. No one had to see the new versions if they didn't want to; that was on them, not Lucas. He was going by the old adage of "films are never completed, only abandoned", and every time technology made another improvement possible, he ran with it.

I like the Special Editions for the most part, but the new song in "Jedi" sucks. I wouldn't really care much either way, if Disney decided to stick with those or release the theatrical cuts. I like "Star Wars", but it isn't my world or my life. I'm not a purist when it comes to things like that.

His argument may be related to third parties but his reasoning was still relevant to his own films that's why I meant a little hypocritical

1980s

"To me, film is historical document and therefore it has practical value. People 500 years from now will look at our films and be able to figure out what we were like...They are technological extensions of, a derivation from, the comic strip."

1996 just before Special editions

I don't know. It's my classic. On the one hand, I'm doing this, while on the other hand I'm on the Artists Rights Board, a foundation that's trying to protect films from being changed--which I feel very strongly about, because with the technology we have today, anybody can go back and do this kind of thing. I can sort of see the future, and I want to protect films as they are and as they should be. I don't want to see them colorized, I don't want to see their formats changed, I don't want to see them re-edited, and I don't want to see what I'm able to do now, which is add more characters and do all kinds of things that nobody even contemplated before."

2004

"I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them."

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

I was there, first in line. I waited seven hours and there were 300-400 people behind me in line. It was a lot of fun. I spent way too much money.

I was far too old for toys back then although my wife bought me a few select figures over the years. We had a son several years back so they went to him...along with all those treasured figures and ships from the original line that had been gathering dust in the loft, waiting to be inherited.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

You really live in a fairy tale world, far removed from common sense, logic, and reality as we know it.

You do know that if those original, unaltered films ever do get released, he will personally ensure that you eat those words. Just as surely as his namesake ate all those burgers.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

I was far too old for toys back then although my wife bought me a few select figures over the years. We had a son several years back so they went to him...along with all those treasured figures and ships from the original line that had been gathering dust in the loft, waiting to be inherited.

I was fifteen and saved up for a long time to blow it all on figures that night. Lots of lawns cut, chores, helping neighbors, etc. Totally worth it.

[simonynwa]

I still don't understand how the most devoted fans of Star Wars fail to pick up on its explicit, heavy-handed message that aggression, anger, and hatred are bad. In the end, the good guy wins by NOT fighting!

Well it does have Wars in the title

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by simonynwa

His argument may be related to third parties but his reasoning was still relevant to his own films that's why I meant a little hypocritical

1980s

"To me, film is historical document and therefore it has practical value. People 500 years from now will look at our films and be able to figure out what we were like...They are technological extensions of, a derivation from, the comic strip."

1996 just before Special editions

I don't know. It's my classic. On the one hand, I'm doing this, while on the other hand I'm on the Artists Rights Board, a foundation that's trying to protect films from being changed--which I feel very strongly about, because with the technology we have today, anybody can go back and do this kind of thing. I can sort of see the future, and I want to protect films as they are and as they should be. I don't want to see them colorized, I don't want to see their formats changed, I don't want to see them re-edited, and I don't want to see what I'm able to do now, which is add more characters and do all kinds of things that nobody even contemplated before."

2004

"I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them."

Interestingly, he said those things in full acknowledgement that he was contradicting himself, in that he said he doesn't want to see what he is doing now. No genius is without flaws, I suppose.

Is that what makes fans' blood boil so? That as children they put this man on a pedestal and now it transpires he has feet of clay?

[simonynwa]

Ok Ive read it and will respond

I don't think its arrogance or that people actually believe in collective ownership, its simply a desire to be able to enjoy or recreate the enjoyment of the film. If you don't like the changes to the SE then clearly you are going to want a product that doesn't have these changes - that's just natural, not arrogance. Whatever arguments are used by people, it essentially comes down to that. Copyright and such like will eventually mean these films will pass into public ownership I would expect, just not necessarily in our lifetime

The article is written as if the people he is railing about are a relevant and dominant part of those who love the films. He is talking about very extreme fans, which frankly every single franchise or film following has and despite what it may seem on the internet are a very minor part - the kind who try to get their children to like the films and watch them in some mythical preferred order that they have ordained is suitable or won't let them watch the Special Editions. Really ? Why on earth would you do this ? (In fact to be honest the writer seems to get so wound up by this minor group that he comes across an extreme fan himself just with the opposing POV). Ive read some very extreme Bond fans and Marvel fans too. The vast majority of SW fans just enjoy the franchise and may well have an opinion on the originals, but hardly see it as life or death. I'm happy to see more Star Wars films being made, whether George Lucas is involved or not and will always respect the man for creating the films in the first place (and critique him for mistakes that I feel he has made).

And like I said above his argument for preserving the rights of artists are valid, but his reasons for why we should do this are hypocritical. ( I do believe when he made that argument in 1988, didn;t they lose on account of the collaborative nature of film >)


Edit

and just to add. I probably watch the SW films maybe once a year, if that, probably due to the huge number of films I see. I suspect most Star Wars fans do the same really and how much time in their lives are they really going to invest in watching the originals when they are released.

I

[octagon]

Originally Posted by simonynwa

His argument may be related to third parties but his reasoning was still relevant to his own films that's why I meant a little hypocritical

Exactly right. He was lobbying Congress to step in and tell copyright holders what they may and may not do with their own properties and his justification for that boiled down to 'well, the public has a stake in this too'.

His ultimate goal might have been the protection of moral rights of artists but he justified Congressional action on the grounds that "American works of art belong to the American public".

Originally Posted by simonynwa

( I do believe when he made that argument in 1988, didn;t they lose on account of the collaborative nature of film >)

They lost because it was 1988 and telling people what they could do with their own stuff wasn't really in vogue then

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

Yet you speak as if it were, and that was my point.
Nobody owes you guys anything.

It was your decision to see and purchase the movies numerous times, and/or buy the merchandise. You are free individuals, and there was no clause that said you would own George Lucas, or his properties if you bought something.
Let's get real, shall we?

If someone buys my CD, that gives them the right to listen to my CD. Period.

Yes, I know. Legally I have no right to continued access to the original cuts in an HD format. Thank you for telling me the obvious.

My point is one can argue for cultural ownership. Not in a legal sense but an emotional one. For 25 years kids grew up worshiping cuts of these movies that Lucas now tries to kill and hide. That's a shame. Yes he owned the property, but hundreds were involved in making them, and millions grew up worshiping them, and in a very real sense those people own a part of it too.

Obvious in super conservative and business-focused America it's easy to say "well he owns the rights and can do whatever he wants." Of course that is true. That doesn't make it right.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by chip75

I'm looking forward to the new Art Of and Making Of books. Revenge of the Sith had some great books full of spoilers!

I hope they re-release all the Art of Star Wars Episode books, because I would like to get them all.

[Elvis]

So as far as the new film goes is EU out the window? I didn't read much of the EU stuff but did enjoy the Zhan trilogy/Mara Jade stuff