Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[octagon]

In the interest of setting the record straight...

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by octagon

Forty or so years ago Lucas was a very good writer, director and executive producer. American Graffiti and Star Wars were truly exceptional films that were both very well written and very well directed. And while he remained a very good executive producer right up until his recent retirement it's more than fair to say he peaked as both a writer and director with Star Wars.

Originally Posted by octagon

Obviously I was say that selling a shitload of movie tickets doesn't necessarily say much about whether or not one is a poor storyteller.

(I mean, that was obvious, wasn't it?)

As for whether Lucas specifically is a poor storyteller, eh, I would probably say mediocre rather than poor and even then I would qualify it somewhat.

He peaked as both a writer and director with American Grafitti and Star Wars. His visual sense and his sense of an overall 'big picture' remained solid but the nuts and bolts of storytelling (dialogue in particular) seemed to get more and more muddled as the years went on.

So if by storyteller one means 'somebody who can come up with cool stories' then yeah, he arguably still had his moments. But when it comes to actually telling the story...writing it down, putting it together in a coherent, compelling form...ehhhhhhhhh, I dunno, I think his best years are going on forty years behind him.

Originally Posted by octagon

Granted, words like perfect are vulnerable to pedantic nit-picking but I can think of several films I would describe as flawless (even though 'virtually flawless' would probably be more literally true) and Star Wars and American Graffiti would be on that list.

I love bashing Lucas as much as the next guy but fair is fair.

Originally Posted by octagon

The best opening credits were no credits at all. It may have created a few waves but George Lucas was right and the Director's Guild of America was wrong.

I don't see anything that could even be reasonably interpreted as hateful.

But yes, I am very glad he retired and sold Lucasfilm. We're getting a new trilogy, at least two new standalone films and a BD release of the UOT seems much more likely.

These are all Good Things®

[peckinpah]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

Gent's Please don't start Thank you

Flippin' deja vu all over again, ain't it.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by peckinpah

Flippin' deja vu all over again, ain't it.

They stopped & that is all I was after

[Forever Knight]

Originally Posted by cinemaphile

You mean if it is a completely unrelated video you posted to get people to look at your lame box opening?

deceiving people to get views on your video. pathetic.
Mods delete that post.

No. I don't have a Youtube account. It was supposed to be a video of Old Republic Darth Malgus.

Lemme see if I can get it up here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqmGoYc9IpU

Try now. Looks incredible. This is the SW stuff I wanna see for the new movie.

[cinemaphile]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

No. I don't have a Youtube account. It was supposed to be a video of Old Republic Darth Malgus.

Lemme see if I can get it up here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqmGoYc9IpU

Try now. Looks incredible. This is the SW stuff I wanna see for the new movie.

Ah yes, well that changes everything LOL.
The first vid you posted was a Walking Dead unboxing.

And yes, that video looks awesome

[Forever Knight]

Oh.. lol, I was sending that link to a buddy and totally didn't do the cut and paste properly.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

They stopped & that is all I was after

The trouble is, it was for all intents and purposes a pretty cordial discourse, but for some reason you felt the need to step in. The moderators really need to be more discrete. This is a discussion forum. Unless insults are being hurled or someone's posting porn, there should be little reason we should hear from you in this capacity.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by octagon

In the interest of setting the record straight...

[Show spoiler]

I don't see anything that could even be reasonably interpreted as hateful.

But yes, I am very glad he retired and sold Lucasfilm. We're getting a new trilogy, at least two new standalone films and a BD release of the UOT seems much more likely.

These are all Good Things®

Yeah, I said that I was sure you didn't say you hated him, but your attitude and overall tone is surely one of the same with someone like Elvis or Stvn, if not as directly nasty or petty. I give you props for being a little more elegant than them, but your argument in practically every post has remained the same - you are joyous that Lucas is no longer involved, even though he is very involved with these new films in a very hands on way.

[Irrob]

Wow, some people never listen. Never learn until the lesson is a hard one...

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

you are joyous that Lucas is no longer involved, even though he is very involved with these new films in a very hands on way.

He is? Honest question, I assumed the "consultant" stuff was all just corporate press crap. Has there been evidence of greater involvement?

I think Lucas is a great visual artist and a real genius in a lot of ways. However he's a very uneven writer and an incredibly bad casting agent. He also goes way overboard on CGI, as evidenced by them never making one single clone trooper outfit for Attack of the Clones. Hopefully he's not involved in those areas.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by Irrob

Wow, some people never listen. Never learn until the lesson is a hard one...

And some people need to face reality and realize that when you don't encourage actual discussion and friendly arguments, this no longer becomes a discussion forum.

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

He is? Honest question, I assumed the "consultant" stuff was all just corporate press crap. Has there been evidence of greater involvement?

It's well known that he did write the outline or first draft for this new trilogy and worked with Kasdan. Ernest made a post recently talking about he how he was taking a hands on approach with Abrams and company, so yeah, he's still very involved and always will be, but I think he just got tired of dealing with the day to day of the companies.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

And some people need to face reality and realize that when you don't encourage actual discussion and friendly arguments, this no longer becomes a discussion forum.



It's well known that he did write the outline or first draft for this new trilogy and worked with Kasdan. Ernest made a post recently talking about he how he was taking a hands on approach with Abrams and company, so yeah, he's still very involved and always will be, but I think he just got tired of dealing with the day to day of the companies.

There was an article on Deadline or possibly the Reporter that stated Arndt and Kasdan, then Arndt/Abrams/Kasdan, frequently turned to Lucas for questions about the characters and the SW universe and Lucas was always available to them, sometimes on a daily basis (i.e., "This character would do this, this character wouldn't say or do that, etc.") He mapped out the ideas for the next trilogy, Arndt fleshed them out into proposed treatments. Bob Iger demanded to see these before he agreed to the LucasFilm purchase, something Lucas bristled at, but ultimately agreed to. Only three people at Disney were allowed to see them. After reading them, Iger was reportedly "excited over the storytelling possibilities", and the rest is history.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

There was an article on Deadline or possibly the Reporter that stated Arndt and Kasdan, then Arndt/Abrams/Kasdan, frequently turned to Lucas for questions about the characters and the SW universe and Lucas was always available to them, sometimes on a daily basis (i.e., "This character would do this, this character wouldn't say or do that, etc.") He mapped out the ideas for the next trilogy, Arndt fleshed them out into proposed treatments. Bob Iger demanded to see these before he agreed to the LucasFilm purchase, something Lucas bristled at, but ultimately agreed to. Only three people at Disney were allowed to see them. After reading them, Iger was reportedly "excited over the storytelling possibilities", and the rest is history.

Using him as an idea man makes a lot of sense and I am totally cool with that. Just don't let him actually write anything.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Using him as an idea man makes a lot of sense and I am totally cool with that. Just don't let him actually write anything.

Because he didn't write the other six films or anything. Sure he had Kasdan punch up the dialogue and had Hales help him out on Clones, but Lucas has always been the main writer for the saga.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Because he didn't write the other six films or anything. Sure he had Kasdan punch up the dialogue and had Hales help him out on Clones, but Lucas has always been the main writer for the saga.

To its detriment.

[SilentDawn]

[simonynwa]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

To its detriment.

Let's not forget the man who wrote the prequels also wrote Ep IV and V and did a pretty bang up job of American Graffiti and THX1138. Don't think he was a detriment to the first two SW films and we wouldn't have any of the rest or future films without them.

He has plenty in the positives column for his writing as well as the negatives.

[Moviefan2k4]

(sings) "This is the song that doesn't end..."

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by simonynwa

Let's not forget the man who wrote the prequels also wrote Ep IV and V and did a pretty bang up job of American Graffiti and THX1138. Don't think he was a detriment to the first two SW films and we wouldn't have any of the rest or future films without them.

He has plenty in the positives column for his writing as well as the negatives.

Don't forget Gary Kurtz was there to disagree and push Lucas in ways others would not have in Graffiti, Star Wars and TESB. Look what happened without him for Jedi and the PT...off the cliff we go!

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Elvis

Don't forget Gary Kurtz was there to disagree and push Lucas in ways others would not have in Graffiti, Star Wars and TESB. Look what happened without him for Jedi and the PT...off the cliff we go!

What about Raiders?


Must have sucked because of no Kurtz involvement.