Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I'm not saying it's a narrative stretch, I'm saying it betrays the whole story of the original trilogy. There is no victory in RotJ if Luke immediately goes back on everything he did there.

True, but the mere fact that there is a seventh movie means that all is not right with the post-Jedi world. See that happy ending with da Ewoks and Force Ghosts and whatnot? As of right now, it don't mean shit. (Don't mistake my tone for having a go at you Velvet, I'm not, I'm just laying it all out there.)

The new film isn't gonna be two hours of them all getting high on spice playing holo-chess inside the Falcon, there's gonna have to be some stuff going down, some conflict & drama, to make the story worthwhile. If that means that Luke really DOES fulfil his father's destiny, then so be it. I know we had the bit in here before about Lucas' joke about giving Jedi a really dark ending with Luke turning bad, but they did try and sneak a little bit of that ambivalence in there anyway, like with Luke dressed all in black, him Force-choking the Gamorrean guards and so on.

They could've properly explored that aspect of Luke throughout the original trilogy if the idea had come to Lucas sooner, i.e. that Vader actually WAS his father, but by the third movie it was too late to go into it in any detail with Luke. Perhaps Lucas will finally get his wish for Luke's story to properly mirror that of Anakin's with these new movies...

[camper]

Originally Posted by Kirk Out

agreed , i always seen luke as yoda and obi wan who can never been turned to the darkside.

I recall something in the comics about how Luke turned to the dark side--briefly--so that he could learn how to use the powers, and then turned back to defeat whatever enemy he was fighting at the time.

Supposedly he was the only Jedi Master to turn to the Dark Side, and then turn back. Until they did it with another character in the expanded universe, of course...Reagan? Rogan? I forgot.

[Kirk Out]

Originally Posted by camper

I recall something in the comics about how Luke turned to the dark side--briefly--so that he could learn how to use the powers, and then turned back to defeat whatever enemy he was fighting at the time.

Supposedly he was the only Jedi Master to turn to the Dark Side, and then turn back. Until they did it with another character in the expanded universe, of course...Reagan? Rogan? I forgot.

that would be an interesting twist, end episode VII with luke turning to the darkside at the end and leave the audience hanging like the ESB and then boom turn back episode VIII doing it for the above reason.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

True, but the mere fact that there is a seventh movie means that all is not right with the post-Jedi world. See that happy ending with da Ewoks and Force Ghosts and whatnot? As of right now, it don't mean shit. (Don't mistake my tone for having a go at you Velvet, I'm not, I'm just laying it all out there.)

The new film isn't gonna be two hours of them all getting high on spice playing holo-chess inside the Falcon, there's gonna have to be some stuff going down, some conflict & drama, to make the story worthwhile. If that means that Luke really DOES fulfil his father's destiny, then so be it. I know we had the bit in here before about Lucas' joke about giving Jedi a really dark ending with Luke turning bad, but they did try and sneak a little bit of that ambivalence in there anyway, like with Luke dressed all in black, him Force-choking the Gamorrean guards and so on.

They could've properly explored that aspect of Luke throughout the original trilogy if the idea had come to Lucas sooner, i.e. that Vader actually WAS his father, but by the third movie it was too late to go into it in any detail with Luke. Perhaps Lucas will finally get his wish for Luke's story to properly mirror that of Anakin's with these new movies...

Needing conflict doesn't necessitate a hero turning evil. If anything that's a lazy, tired trope of these types of movies. Every Mission: Impossible movie has an IMF agent gone bad as a villain for example, it's silly. 20-30 years ago this was a shocking plot development. Now it makes me yawn.

There are certainly a ton of villain possibilities out there for any writer with any talent. Hell, Thrawn is a fan favorite just sitting there waiting if you can't come up with anything yourself.

[camper]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Needing conflict doesn't necessitate a hero turning evil. If anything that's a lazy, tired trope of these types of movies. Every Mission: Impossible movie has an IMF agent gone bad as a villain for example, it's silly. 20-30 years ago this was a shocking plot development. Now it makes me yawn.

And the only reason it was shocking, was because it was the MAIN DUDE from Mission Impossible that betrayed everyone.

I remember watching the film with my dad, and him shouting at the TV "That's CRAP! He would NEVER do that to his team!!!"

[stvn1974]

I don't believe any of these rumors. Remember back when everyone was all outraged over the stories of Khan being the villain in Star Trek Into Darkness? That turned out to be false and we got someone named John Harrison instead.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I don't believe any of these rumors. Remember back when everyone was all outraged over the stories of Khan being the villain in Star Trek Into Darkness? That turned out to be false and we got someone named John Harrison instead.

I remember the Khan stuff not leaking until six months or so before release...when outside companies began receiving their materials...not 15 months ahead of time. Wake me up in Spring 2015.

[toddly6666]

There's no way Luke will turn bad - his character is too much of a good-natured ethical nice person. It's like finding out your best friend's father is a serial killer. It would be way too gimmicky for Luke to evolve into a bad guy with the way he was raised and what heroic things he did in the Original Trilogy.

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

There's no way Luke will turn bad - his character is too much of a good-natured ethical nice person. It's like finding out your best friend's father is a serial killer. It would be way too gimmicky for Luke to evolve into a bad guy with the way he was raised and what heroic things he did in the Original Trilogy.

Maybe Luke still pissed that he didn't get to go to the Tosche station to pickup some power converters. You know they have different voltage on all those planets.

[Richard Graham]

Luke will most likely be tricked into turning. It seems the sith way to seduce someone at a low point in their life.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

[Show spoiler]The entire point of the original trilogy was Luke being virtuous and saving his father. The big climax of the final film is him refusing to join the dark side even if it means his imminent death, and that sacrifice motivating his dad. If they have him evil in the next movie it's just a super lazy betrayal of the whole point.

Except for the fact in the EU Luke was the same way.

[Show spoiler] he did it to totally rid the Galaxy of the Dark Side, through all his training and testing he realized the only way to truly destroy the dark side was to do this. In Dark Empire which takes place 10 years after the battle on Endor Palapatine had returned, Luke knew that in order to destroy him he would have to turn, but he counted on Leia to do for him what he did for his father. Luke trained Leia specifically to turn him back. Together they destroy Palpatine for good.

[NYorker]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

[Show spoiler]The entire point of the original trilogy was Luke being virtuous and saving his father. The big climax of the final film is him refusing to join the dark side even if it means his imminent death, and that sacrifice motivating his dad. If they have him evil in the next movie it's just a super lazy betrayal of the whole point.

Totally agree.

Then again, a lot of thing we've heard about this movie smacks of laziness.
I wonder if by now Palpatine's social security benefits kicked in.

And the EU is totally, completely irrelevant, because when the OT was made, the EU wasn't on anybody's mind.

[partridge]

The EU is now an alternate universe; it's redundant now the Ep7 is on the way. It can't be taken for granted that any of it will, or can, remain canon.

[kemcha]

I don't know what to make of this major spoiler that has been revealed, but, if true, it could be a major reveal of the plotline for the movie. I'm aware that someone may have posted this information before, but this is what I found on another site. Please be aware that if you do not want to be spoiler, do NOT reveal the following spoiler:

[Show spoiler]One piece shows this cloaked figure holding the helmet of Darth Vader. The helmet is warped as it has been burned in a fire. The figure almost looks at the helmet with remorse and regret. The background in this image is an Imperial Star Destroyer. The monster holds the helmet in his left hand while his right hand is shown to be very similar to Anakin Skywalker’s and perhaps Luke Skywalker’s.

The black figure sits on a throne. He’s cloaked. We see him from the side. His boots are not unlike Anakin Skywalker’s from Revenge of the Sith. He is approached by “Kira.” The light from outside the shrine emanates from the door way and she walks through it. The cloaked figure sits in darkness, a natural red/yellow fiery light behind him, almost like amber backlights the figure. According to a source, “Kira” believes she is there to meet Luke Skywalker, but instead she finds the monster. In another depiction, she is facing the camera, the cyborg character is embracing her and the look on her face is one of resignation and defeat. We are looking over a character’s shoulder, of what is believed to be Boyega’s character.

So why does “Kira” appear to give up? The reason for her resignation? The cyborg is none other than Luke Skywalker. The revelation beats “Kira” and her quest becomes hopeless. She resigns herself to joining the figure who is the opposite of what she hoped to find. The evil she sought to vanquish with the power of Luke Skywalker, is Luke Skywalker. We are left not knowing the future and how this happened. The cloak appears to be especially close to Luke Skywalker’s Return of the Jedi cloak as well.

Read more at http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit...p0ZzqtgQskW.99

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by kemcha

I don't know what to make of this major spoiler that has been revealed, but, if true, it could be a major reveal of the plotline for the movie. I'm aware that someone may have posted this information before, but this is what I found on another site. Please be aware that if you do not want to be spoiler, do NOT reveal the following spoiler:

[Show spoiler]One piece shows this cloaked figure holding the helmet of Darth Vader. The helmet is warped as it has been burned in a fire. The figure almost looks at the helmet with remorse and regret. The background in this image is an Imperial Star Destroyer. The monster holds the helmet in his left hand while his right hand is shown to be very similar to Anakin Skywalker’s and perhaps Luke Skywalker’s.

The black figure sits on a throne. He’s cloaked. We see him from the side. His boots are not unlike Anakin Skywalker’s from Revenge of the Sith. He is approached by “Kira.” The light from outside the shrine emanates from the door way and she walks through it. The cloaked figure sits in darkness, a natural red/yellow fiery light behind him, almost like amber backlights the figure. According to a source, “Kira” believes she is there to meet Luke Skywalker, but instead she finds the monster. In another depiction, she is facing the camera, the cyborg character is embracing her and the look on her face is one of resignation and defeat. We are looking over a character’s shoulder, of what is believed to be Boyega’s character.

So why does “Kira” appear to give up? The reason for her resignation? The cyborg is none other than Luke Skywalker. The revelation beats “Kira” and her quest becomes hopeless. She resigns herself to joining the figure who is the opposite of what she hoped to find. The evil she sought to vanquish with the power of Luke Skywalker, is Luke Skywalker. We are left not knowing the future and how this happened. The cloak appears to be especially close to Luke Skywalker’s Return of the Jedi cloak as well.

Read more at http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit...p0ZzqtgQskW.99

Hmm, but if that's true, then why would Hamill grow a beard for the part? Not much need for a beard when you're

[Show spoiler]a cyborg with a mostly artificial face. Unless the beard was for some flashback scenes only I guess.

[Al_The_Strange]

I don't know what to make of this major spoiler that has been revealed, but, if true, it could be a major reveal of the plotline for the movie. I'm aware that someone may have posted this information before, but this is what I found on another site. Please be aware that if you do not want to be spoiler, do NOT reveal the following spoiler:


[Show spoiler]

[Show spoiler]One piece shows this cloaked figure holding the helmet of Darth Vader. The helmet is warped as it has been burned in a fire. The figure almost looks at the helmet with remorse and regret. The background in this image is an Imperial Star Destroyer. The monster holds the helmet in his left hand while his right hand is shown to be very similar to Anakin Skywalker’s and perhaps Luke Skywalker’s.

The black figure sits on a throne. He’s cloaked. We see him from the side. His boots are not unlike Anakin Skywalker’s from Revenge of the Sith. He is approached by “Kira.” The light from outside the shrine emanates from the door way and she walks through it. The cloaked figure sits in darkness, a natural red/yellow fiery light behind him, almost like amber backlights the figure. According to a source, “Kira” believes she is there to meet Luke Skywalker, but instead she finds the monster. In another depiction, she is facing the camera, the cyborg character is embracing her and the look on her face is one of resignation and defeat. We are looking over a character’s shoulder, of what is believed to be Boyega’s character.

So why does “Kira” appear to give up? The reason for her resignation? The cyborg is none other than Luke Skywalker. The revelation beats “Kira” and her quest becomes hopeless. She resigns herself to joining the figure who is the opposite of what she hoped to find. The evil she sought to vanquish with the power of Luke Skywalker, is Luke Skywalker. We are left not knowing the future and how this happened. The cloak appears to be especially close to Luke Skywalker’s Return of the Jedi cloak as well.

Read more at http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit...p0ZzqtgQskW.99

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Hmm, but if that's true, then why would Hamill grow a beard for the part? Not much need for a beard when you're

[Show spoiler]a cyborg with a mostly artificial face. Unless the beard was for some flashback scenes only I guess.

Reading those descriptions, I'm more willing to believe that

[Show spoiler]the film will purposefully try to trick us into thinking it's Luke and he's gone to the darkside, but it turns out to be Von Sydow's character, who is supposed to be some kind of cyborg according to one of these other rumors. If that turns out to be the case, it sounds good to me.

After reading through all the different rumors in this thread, I'm not willing to believe anything until I actually see the movie with my own optical nerves.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Al_The_Strange

Reading those descriptions, I'm more willing to believe that

[Show spoiler]the film will purposefully try to trick us into thinking it's Luke and he's gone to the darkside, but it turns out to be Von Sydow's character, who is supposed to be some kind of cyborg according to one of these other rumors. If that turns out to be the case, it sounds good to me.

After reading through all the different rumors in this thread, I'm not willing to believe anything until I actually see the movie with my own optical nerves.

Yeah, I had the same thought. It seems more likely

[Show spoiler]they'll try to trick the audience into thinking it's Luke, rather than it really being him.

[kemcha]

It could also be a red herring. I remember when George Lucas was filming the original trilogy, back from 1975 through 1983, that he often misled the fans and the media, as to what the films were, what the plots were, and so on. But, in any event, the whole supposed plot about Luke has been a consistent rumor ever since work started on the new film.

Part of me thinks that it's a red herring but I'm starting to wonder if the rumor is true, because the rumors involving Luke Skywalker in this new film have been consistent. I think that if Abrams wanted to throw everyone off the scent of the plot, that he would have released different rumors regarding Luke Skywalker, not staying on the same rumor.

Lucasfilm needs to get off its arse and start letting fans know what the actual premise of the film is going to be about. I seem to recall that Katheleen Kennedy said that while there would be secrecy, it wouldn't be on the same "NSA-type level" of secrecy that previous Abrams films have had. So far, Katheleen Kennedy has failed miserably at releasing any new information.

Abrams has a method, shitting on the fans who want to hear some information about what his movies are about. It doesn't have to be a lot, but he needs to start being more open about his film projects, otherwise, this whole thing is going to blow up in Lucasfilm's face, after they promised that they would release information about the film, from time to time. Fans these days have a very long memory.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by kemcha

It could also be a red herring. I remember when George Lucas was filming the original trilogy, back from 1975 through 1983, that he often misled the fans and the media, as to what the films were, what the plots were, and so on. But, in any event, the whole supposed plot about Luke has been a consistent rumor ever since work started on the new film.

Part of me thinks that it's a red herring but I'm starting to wonder if the rumor is true, because the rumors involving Luke Skywalker in this new film have been consistent. I think that if Abrams wanted to throw everyone off the scent of the plot, that he would have released different rumors regarding Luke Skywalker, not staying on the same rumor.

Lucasfilm needs to get off its arse and start letting fans know what the actual premise of the film is going to be about. I seem to recall that Katheleen Kennedy said that while there would be secrecy, it wouldn't be on the same "NSA-type level" of secrecy that previous Abrams films have had. So far, Katheleen Kennedy has failed miserably at releasing any new information.

Abrams has a method, shitting on the fans who want to hear some information about what his movies are about. It doesn't have to be a lot, but he needs to start being more open about his film projects, otherwise, this whole thing is going to blow up in Lucasfilm's face, after they promised that they would release information about the film, from time to time. Fans these days have a very long memory.

When the real plot details start to come out, the rumor sites will shrug, say they were reporting what they were being given, and the rumors will be forgotten. Anyone remember AICN saying Christopher Walken was playing Darth Bane in Episode II and that you could "take it to the bank"? Or that a large portion of the footage for Episode I was unusable because the DP put the wrong lens on the camera? These sites can be very gullible, and then toss in their dishonesty about how deep their "inside sources" are and you get these bogus rumors in the process, rumors that feed on themselves. The rumor sites make money on the clicks, and don't seem to have any shame. For the fans, it's just fun and games, not a threat to world peace or anything, but I get annoyed by the gullibility (and sometimes dishonesty) of the rumor sites from time to time.

Much of the recent rumors are simply illogical. Consider: SW7 has to be the bedrock upon which all the subsequent properties will stand on. It has to be a crowd pleaser, has to send audiences out cheering. Has to be. Has to be. They can't screw this up, it has to be a home run. Couple that with Abrams saying he wants to give the OT cast "a proper send-off" ...ask yourself how an Evil Luke fits into any of that?

Now, Luke showing up by the end of the movie to *save the day* and probably die heroically fits that bill. Luke as a servant of evil who even kills Han Solo? It's absurdly illogical given the stakes for the property. No way they take that kind of risk of enraging the fan base, turning a branded character into a hated figure, and depressing audiences in the process. It makes...no...logical...sense. And it is not going to happen.

SW7 is going to be a rousing, fun adventure that sends people out eager to buy another ticket, again and again, and then go buy soundtracks, posters, books, t-shirts, action figures, and video games while drooling over potential theme park rides. It's not going to be a dark, depressing movie that turns beloved characters evil, killing each other.

One question no one seems to have an answer to -- if the concept art leaks are genuine, why haven't the rumor sites been ordered to take them down? LucasFilm is not shy about protecting their intellectual property, and their parent company is even less so.

Naah...this is all bunkus. The leaks will come, but this is bullpoop.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by partridge

The EU is now an alternate universe; it's redundant now the Ep7 is on the way. It can't be taken for granted that any of it will, or can, remain canon.

No but as much as it is no longer considered canon, it can be a good source of inspiration and ideas. Many of which we will probably see translated to film, IE the Solo twins.