Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

I feel bad for George that every time someone mentions less CGI, they think they're deriding the prequels (which were almost exercises in design over storytelling). I don't think that's their full intention, it's more of a general statement, they're trying to get back to the original sensations of having things on-screen for the actors and audiences to relate to.

Lucas may have gone overboard, but I don't think they could have made the movies when they did and they were still full of physical effects and model work. Hindsight's a wonderful thing, but sometimes you have to go too far before you realise you've gone too far!

The prequels 'making of' books are full of wonderful images of practical locations, sets and props, there was still an awful lot of real going on.

Having now actually seen the SDCC reel, it's doubly obvious that they're pointing out all this REALLY REALLY REAL stuff to stick the knife a bit deeper into Uncle George, to distance themselves from that anodyne digital world as much as possible (whilst still embracing things like CG characters, digital intermediates and so forth) and to let the fans know that this is their Star Wars.

I thought Simon Pegg said he'd outgrown all this geek stuff that takes us back to our childhood though? The dude's becoming a bit of a twat.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Yeah it's not like people literally think the prequels were 100% cgi like a pixar movie-- they did build sets and use some miniatures and props.

They build *hundreds* of miniatures. As has been reported (and ignored) many times: each prequel used more models than all the models made for the OT combined.

So yes, it is a big deal for JJ to talk about keeping everything real and authentic for Episode VII.

Except he's not keeping everything "real and authentic" (and how could you? It's a science fiction fantasy film in another galaxy!). Look at his STAR TREK films - real locations and sets but tons of digital set extension, digital makeup enhancement (such as eyes and other features moved around), digital creatures, and completely CG ships. Even the prequels used mostly models for a lot of the ships.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Having now actually seen the SDCC reel, it's doubly obvious that they're pointing out all this REALLY REAL stuff to stick the knife a bit deeper into Uncle George, to distance themselves from that anodyne digital world as much as possible (whilst still embracing things like CG characters, digital intermediates and so forth).

No, it's nothing against George. It's for those who reflexively "eww" with CG. Look at all the complaining in this thread alone. It's just to get the CG haters to simmer down.


They did the same thing with MAD MAX: FURY ROAD and that film ended up with 1500-2000 VFX shots.


In other words: it's called "the placebo effect".

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

They build *hundreds* of miniatures. As has been reported (and ignored) many times: each prequel used more models than all the models made for the OT combined.




Except he's not keeping everything "real and authentic" (and how could you? It's a science fiction fantasy film in another galaxy!). Look at his STAR TREK films - real locations and sets but tons of digital set extension, digital makeup enhancement (such as eyes and other features moved around), digital creatures, and completely CG ships. Even the prequels used mostly models for a lot of the ships.

The problem is that despite all the truth to that, Geroge caked the prequels in a digital sheen. It was to clean, and to perfect. Despite the models, he used CGI in the stupidest of places. There's no reason to have digital clones and clone armor on Termura Morrison. scenes of actors walking and talking in digital sets of a hallway, when a regular real hall would have sufficed.

We don't care when there's CGI on a space ship. The millennium falcon isn't real. They can't film that.

A hallway? A suit of armor? There's no reason those couldn't have been real. It was just lazy filmmaking.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

In other words: it's called "the placebo effect".

Maybe it's called the "has talent and can make his movie look great and real despite all the computer enhancements" effect.

Lucas says wha?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

No, it's nothing against George. It's for those who reflexively "eww" with CG. Look at all the complaining in this thread alone. It's just to get the CG haters to simmer down.


They did the same thing with MAD MAX: FURY ROAD and that film ended up with 1500-2000 VFX shots.


In other words: it's called "the placebo effect".

Are you kidding? I've never seen anything like that before, someone using that as an honest-to-goodness selling point for a new movie. They may have talked it up with Fury Road but was there an actual promo piece with the sole purpose of highlighting the practical goodies in it?

It's not been employed in a throwaway manner either, they've only used the biggest geek platform of the year to let us know how super real everything is, repeatedly, instead of showing a new trailer or whatever.

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Maybe it's called the "has talent and can make his movie look great and real despite all the computer enhancements" effect.

Lucas says wha?

I still say his intentions were ahead of the tech. I genuinely wonder what the prequels would look like if they were made today.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Are you kidding? I've never seen anything like that before, someone using that as an honest-to-goodness selling point for a new movie. They may have talked it up with Fury Road but was there an actual promo piece with the sole purpose of highlighting the practical goodies in it?

It's not been employed in a throwaway manner either, they've only used the biggest geek platform of the year to let us know how super real everything is, repeatedly, instead of showing a new trailer or whatever.


I still say his intentions were ahead of the tech. I genuinely wonder what the prequels would look like if they were made today.

Probably like Avatar. Visually stunning. They were even back then though. The problem isn't the visuals on the prequels, it's the mediocre storytelling.

(On record, I enjoy the prequels. I wish they were better though.)

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Maybe it's called the "has talent and can make his movie look great and real despite all the computer enhancements" effect.

No, ILM says "15 years of technological evolution that didn't stop in 2005".


There's a price to be first and state of the art. If they did the prequels today you think they would look the same?

[kamphausd1]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Having now actually seen the SDCC reel, it's doubly obvious that they're pointing out all this REALLY REALLY REAL stuff to stick the knife a bit deeper into Uncle George, to distance themselves from that anodyne digital world as much as possible (whilst still embracing things like CG characters, digital intermediates and so forth) and to let the fans know that this is their Star Wars.

I thought Simon Pegg said he'd outgrown all this geek stuff that takes us back to our childhood though? The dude's becoming a bit of a twat.

I was surprised to see him on the set in that video. I mean hasn't he been saying some rather unfavorable things about Lucas in the past decade (or at least about the decisions that were made with the SE's and PT)?

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I still say his intentions were ahead of the tech. I genuinely wonder what the prequels would look like if they were made today.

Those models and sets you guys are going on about from the prequels? I genuinely believe they wouldn't have a chance in hell if George made them today. There would be more green screen and CG sets.

[kamphausd1]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

Those models and sets you guys are going on about from the prequels? I genuinely believe they wouldn't have a chance in hell if George made them today. There would be more green screen and CG sets.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

A hallway? A suit of armor? There's no reason those couldn't have been real. It was just lazy filmmaking.

Wrong. Captain America: The Winter Soldier used CGI for the Winter Soldier's arm and Cap's shield. I don't see you complaining about that.


They replicated millions of clone troops.


You keep complaining about a hallway. That "hallway" was gigantic and would have cost a lot of money to build for real, for something in the background for a few seconds. Digital set extensions are now routinely used in film and TV for nearly everything. You're just complaining to complain at this point.


Gee, why didn't JJ build a forest for thousands of feet around?








Or build a full size platform and hoist it thousands of feet into the air?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

I was surprised to see him on the set in that video. I mean hasn't he been saying some rather unfavorable things about Lucas in the past decade (or at least about the decisions that were made with the SE's and PT)?

Of course he has, but LFL seemed to love him for it anyway, giving him clearance to use SW music in Spaced and he did some voice work on Clone Wars. Besides, these films have nothing to do with Lucas as an ongoing concern (they've made that abundantly clear ) so it's no wonder Pegg would want a piece now.

My point was more in reference to him recently moaning about the infantilism of comic book movies keeping us all locked in a cycle of storytelling that's only fit for 14-year-olds, citing how he missed the gritty adult-oriented movies of the '70s....but it's okay for him to geek out in a rubber suit while making a new Star Wars film that's also primarily designed to ensnare a whole new generation of kiddies as fans. Douche.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You keep complaining about a hallway. That "hallway" was gigantic and would have cost a lot of money to build for real, for something in the background for a few seconds. Digital set extensions are now routinely used in film and TV for nearly everything. You're just complaining to complain at this point.


Gee, why didn't JJ build a forest for thousands of feet around?

[Show spoiler]

[Show spoiler]

Or build a full size platform and hoist it thousands of feet into the air?

Both of those have physical foundations with CG extensions. George would have used 100% green screen.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Wrong. Captain America: The Winter Soldier used CGI for the Winter Soldier's arm and Cap's shield. I don't see you complaining about that.


They replicated millions of clone troops.


You keep complaining about a hallway. That "hallway" was gigantic and would have cost a lot of money to build for real, for something in the background for a few seconds. Digital set extensions are now routinely used in film and TV for nearly everything. You're just complaining to complain at this point.


Gee, why didn't JJ build a forest for thousands of feet around?








Or build a full size platform and hoist it thousands of feet into the air?

That's because we can't make a shield do the stuff Caps shield did practically. It's a non existing object, behaving in a way that existing shields don't. Like a space ship. Or a dinosaur.

As far as Winter Soldiers arm, I have only seen the film once. It must not have been terrible CGI.

Stop being a turd. You KNOW I didn't say "dur they should have actually cloned Temura." Of course they shouldn't have. There is NO reason they couldn't have built him clone armor. There's no reason they couldn't have, as the force awakens has done, had extras play clone troopers, digitally extending them.

As far as the hallway set, there's also NO reason they couldn't have a fricken floor for Ewan to stand on. As it is, he looks like he's floating. It doesn't look real, beacuse it's NOT real.

As far as your Star Trek comparisons, no one here is a moron. We aren't saying anything of that sort. We aren't a bunch of stupid five year olds. It just makes you look like a condescending man in a hissy fit.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

Both of those have physical foundations with CG extensions. George would have used 100% green screen.

No, he did the exact same thing a lot of the time.


Or are you going to pretend they didn't travel to places like Italy, Tunisia, or build huge sets in Australia?

[Zivouhr]

Glad they showed the villains at Comic Con 2015. The villains are just as important as the heroes, since they create all the conflict for the heroes to resolve. Really cool villain costumes from the look of it. Can't wait!!

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

No, he did the exact same thing a lot of the time.


Or are you going to pretend they didn't travel to places like Italy, Tunisia, or build huge sets in Australia?

[PeterTHX]

You realize a few scenes does not an entire movie make.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

That's because we can't make a shield do the stuff Caps shield did practically. It's a non existing object, behaving in a way that existing shields don't. Like a space ship. Or a dinosaur.

Half the time when he's holding it, it was replaced by a CG version.

Stop being a turd.

Here come the typical hater personal attacks.

You KNOW I didn't say "dur they should have actually cloned Temura." Of course they shouldn't have. There is NO reason they couldn't have built him clone armor. There's no reason they couldn't have, as the force awakens has done, had extras play clone troopers, digitally extending them.

Or if they wanted continuity between thousands of clone troops, build them all digitally.

As far as the hallway set, there's also NO reason they couldn't have a fricken floor for Ewan to stand on. As it is, he looks like he's floating. It doesn't look real, beacuse it's NOT real.

[citation needed] You keep mentioning this mystery scene.

As far as your Star Trek comparisons, no one here is a moron. We aren't saying anything of that sort. We aren't a bunch of stupid five year olds. It just makes you look like a condescending man in a hissy fit.

Again, the nastiness of the haters comes out.