Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Samus Aran

And Star Trek into Darkness is apparently the worst 87% certified fresh movie of all time.

I assume you meant this with some snark, but I actually think that's probably 100% accurate. It would be hard for me to find a film on RT with that rating that I consider more flawed and poorly executed in objective ways.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Lower, but not tumble. I seriously think SW has a guaranteed fanbase, same with Marvel, which coincidentally are both properties Disney sought out and paid whatever they had to in order to get. Hmmmm.

Disney doesn't care about the box office for Marvel, Piixar or Star Wars. They care about the licensing profits for characters on merchandise.

[Det. Bullock]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

Keep in mind that critics didn't actually mind Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith was the best reviewed Star Wars since Empire Strikes Back. It's really just this legion of vocal fanboys that crusade against them.

ESB actually had worse reviews than IV and VI by its contemporaries (I'm talking professional critics), many reviewers changed their mind later or their reviews have been forgotten but at the time the consensu was "first was better because it was dumb fun".

[steel_breeze]

I was a longtime prequel hater who's only started embracing them since the spectacular 2nd teaser for VII back in March… but I've gotta say, I've always thought Clones was the best of the prequels. By far. I know I'm in a minority of one, but here's my thinking:

Phantom has Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd, both of whom make the movie almost unwatchable. Any sequence on Tatooine in that film is downright painful (IMHO). It is almost redeemed by a spectacular final 30 minutes, but still… And then there's Sith, which is the only prequel that doesn't "feel" like a Star Wars movie to me. Even the score -- the best thing about the prequels -- becomes "Battlestar Galactica reboot" meets "Lord of the Rings". And the way Mace Windu gets ousted and Anakin suddenly flips is -- in my opinion -- the very lowest point of the Star Wars saga. Darth Vader is revealed to be the biggest tool in the Star Wars universe, instead of the badass I grew up with.

Of all of 'em, only Clones shows us the camaraderie with Obi-Wan, the seeds of the dark side, the beginning of the Clone Wars and the rise of Palpatine as the ultra-powerful leader of the Galactic Senate. Clones serves as the ultimate "flashback" from the original trilogy, showing us just enough of how the universe got to Episode IV without spoon-feeding us things like: this is baby Anakin, this is baby Luke, this is baby Leia, etc. (It actually works great as a flashback if you watch IV, V, II, VI)

Plus I really like the look of it. The battle of Geonosis is downright spectacular, and it's the only Episode where we see all the Jedi in action together. I know the love story is painful… oy, is it painful… but aside from that, I've always thought Clones was the most "Star Wars" of the prequels.

EDIT: Dammit, I've gone ahead and written a whole post not (much) related to "Force Awakens". I hate when people do that… but felt I had to respond to the Clones hate. I genuinely apologize for being part of the problem.

[StingingVelvet]

Clones probably has my favorite action sequences, but also the worst story. Revenge has the best story and visuals by far though, IMO. Phantom has the best... uhh...

[dallywhitty]

I haven't seen Clones and Sith in ages but I did re-watch The Phantom Menace a couple of years ago. Its biggest crime is that it's a bit of a bore. Maybe I'm in the minority but I think the middle act with young Anakin and the pod racing was the best part of the film. That and the duel against Darth Maul, anyway. Everything else is a bit of a drag to endure. It really isn't the atrocity its vocal haters make it out to be, but it's one of those films which could've been really, really good but instead ends up being rather dull and soulless.

From what I do remember of Clones, it had some great action scenes and was infinitely more entertaining than its predecessor, but the visuals were obnoxious. Like every single shot was clearly shot against a green screen or something. Sith I seem to recall being a genuinely good film.

[Gamma_Winstead]

How anyone can think the writing for Anakin was at all acceptable in clones is beyond me. At the end of TPM Anakin was just a kid, ready ro prove himself, but not a brat.

AotC Anakin is a rapist in the works. He's volitale, angry, never listens, and is genuinely creepy towards padme. He wouldn't have been allowed to be a padawan. plain and simple. His behavior is borderline Sith already, and i don't mean that in a "he'll be Vader" way. Vader was a villain worthy of being remembered. Anakin was a selfish brat that should have been in space jail long before RotS started.

[stvn1974]

Phantom Menace is the only decent prequel, IMO. Jar Jar is annoying but still not as bad as the Anakin/Padme relationship in the next two.

[Darkstream]

Not only do I find Revenge of the Sith to be the best of the prequels, I think it is better than at least 33.3%* of Return of the Jedi.



*estimated percentage of content containing ewoks.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

How anyone can think the writing for Anakin was at all acceptable in clones is beyond me. At the end of TPM Anakin was just a kid, ready ro prove himself, but not a brat.

AotC Anakin is a rapist in the works. He's volitale, angry, never listens, and is genuinely creepy towards padme. He wouldn't have been allowed to be a padawan. plain and simple. His behavior is borderline Sith already, and i don't mean that in a "he'll be Vader" way. Vader was a villain worthy of being remembered. Anakin was a selfish brat that should have been in space jail long before RotS started.

I still maintain that Attack of the Clones has the worst acting/per dollar spent of any movie I've ever watched. I've seen local theater productions with better acting and look at where I live. It's not exactly the mecca for theatrical talent!

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

I still maintain that Attack of the Clones has the worst acting/per dollar spent of any movie I've ever watched. I've seen local theater productions with better acting and look at where I live. It's not exactly the mecca for theatrical talent!

See, while the acting isn't particularly good, I don't blame that on the actual actors. The script was just abysmal. No one would have made that dialogue sound good. I mean, we already had phenomenal actors in the film.

[Forever Knight]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

Clones is an abominable film. I love Phantom though, despite its problems. Sith was saddled with making three films worth of content into one film.

Clones just does everything wrong.

We must agree to disagree. I really got no issue with Clones: Birth of the Empire stage 1.

[spectre08]

Sorry, more Adam Driver love

https://news.vice.com/video/arts-in-...icenewstwitter

Bringing thought-provoking and impactful contemporary theater to US soldiers. That's the mission of Arts in the Armed Forces, a non-profit organization started by Marine-turned-actor Adam Driver (Girls, Star Wars: The Force Awakens). VICE News followed Driver and his fellow actors (including Joanne Tucker, Natasha Lyonne, Eric Bogosian, Peter Scolari, Sasheer Zamata, and many more) as they performed for military audiences in the US and overseas who are more accustomed to visits by country cover bands and the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

EDIT: Dammit, I've gone ahead and written a whole post not (much) related to "Force Awakens". I hate when people do that… but felt I had to respond to the Clones hate. I genuinely apologize for being part of the problem.

I love the last couple of reels of Clones because all that godawful dialogue and acting is dispensed with (not to mention Ewan's awful FAEK BEERD!!) and the film ****ing well gets on with it, clones and droids and Jedi going to war, lightsaber battles, Yoda getting to lay some smacketh down, awesome stuff. The preceding 100 minutes I'd like to see burned up and I wouldn't even do it the courtesy of pissing on the ashes. Sooo bad, although it's slightly redeemed by the amazing Clone Wars S6 which answers so many questions that Lucas left hanging. I'd like to see the shorter IMAX cut of Clones someday though.

Um...Force Awakens! Yeah!

[Col. Zombie]

Originally Posted by spectre08

Sorry, more Adam Driver love

https://news.vice.com/video/arts-in-...icenewstwitter

I think that's fantastic.

A good actor can make you personally hate him/her, because of the way he/she plays a particular role. It's interesting how people are already hating on this guy before they've even seem him play the part. That's not good.

On a side note, I'm actually not bothered by this Durth Vurder wannabe, nor the actor who plays him.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Nada

The Phantom Menace wasn't a bust, far from it, creatively and financially. If that were true, then why did it sell millions of VHS tapes, DVD's, pull in $100 million worldwide in a 3D re-release, etc. etc.?

I don't really like The Phantom Menace, but I saw it 3 or 4 times in the theater, bought it on VHS, bought it on DVD, then bought the Prequel trilogy Blu-Ray trilogy set. You know, 'cause it's Star Wars and I'm an idiot.

Edit: Also I'm trying to converse with a guy who got banned. Double idiot points for me!

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by Col. Zombie

I think that's fantastic.

A good actor can make you personally hate him/her, because of the way he/she plays a particular role. It's interesting how people are already hating on this guy before they've even seem him play the part. That's not good.

On a side note, I'm actually not bothered by this Durth Vurder wannabe, nor the actor who plays him.

I've always found it fascinating how some people can have such strong hatred for certain actors based entirely on roles that they've had.

Many people I know, usually or exclusively of the right wing variety, abhor Driver and any one remotely connected to Lena Dunham. They know absolutely nothing about the show or the actor, but hate Dunham so much that it bleeds onto anybody in her world.

We've already seen the exact same thing in connection with this movie, especially from certain segments of nerd culture, particularly those connected with things like Gamergate, /r/Redpill, MGTOWs, etc. They post here occasionally.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

Keep in mind that critics didn't actually mind Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith was the best reviewed Star Wars since Empire Strikes Back. It's really just this legion of vocal fanboys that crusade against them.

Critics are just as susceptible to expectations and tricks of the mind just as anyone else. Myself and virtually everyone I know initially "liked" the prequels when we first saw them, or tried to make ourselves like them because it was freaking Star Wars and we were 100% certain going in that it was going to be amazing. Every subsequent viewing of all three prequels made them worse and worse as expectations melted away and we had to settle in for exactly what these films were.

A vocal minority of fan boys? You can't escape people trashing the prequels from every media/entertainment source that mentions them. If anything, it feels like only a minority of fans are still trying to stick up for them. They even had to create a "Why We Love the Prequels" support group at the last Star Wars expo.

[StingingVelvet]

I remember leaving the theater in 1999 thinking Phantom Menace was amazing. Then, the slow, painful comedown from the hype and franchise worship of the next few months... Then the DVD came out and I was firmly in the "this is crap" camp. I see the same kind of thing going on with Jurassic World lately.

You can blame that on internet cynicism or being a sheep if you want, but I legitimately think it's just that love of a franchise covers up flaws for a while, then you slowly realize what you actually think.

Clones and Revenge I have come around to like MORE since my first viewing.

[ambient_indie]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I see the same kind of thing going on with Jurassic World lately.

This I 100% agree with!