Spears & Munsil 4K UHD HDR Benchmark (Test Discs) May 15, 2023

[Geoff D]

No, Stacey is the man. I'm here to learn from folks like him.

[ROSS.T.G.]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No, Stacey is the man. I'm here to learn from folks like him.

I’m not taking back what I said. You can’t make me.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Does DV max out your backlight setting?

My display has the backlight setting set at 50 stock when DV is enabled. I lowered contrast because it clipped out a lot of detail, between 1000 and 4000 nits. The overall picture became dimmer. Increasing the backlight setting brought the overall brightness back while maintaining the contrast intended for highlights.

Note: There is a warm up period before I get to peak brightness though.

Aquaman looking to bright when it comes to APL is a good piece of content for determining that contrast is set to high out of the box.

[Geoff D]

What TV do you have, DCN? I'm sure I've aksed that before but I've clean forgotten the answer.

For my Sony then backlight is at maximum by default in HDR (10 or DV, doesn't matter), and with good reason as it's what provides the headroom to have APL at normal levels in HDR while the peaks go cray-cray bright.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by ROSS.T.G.

Yep. I do use EE and Cinema. I’ll use Cinema Home for daytime viewing of Netflix or Prime.

I always thought leaving color space on auto on my Oppo was correct. Am I correct that auto is correct for UHD but change when viewing BD upscaled?

Currently can't make profile 7 DV test patterns that maintain quality. (avoid unnecessary color space conversions and possible bitdepth changes) Also, the DV calibration metadata used by CalMAN is stripped by current encoding tools and we don't actually know if the player will pass them to the display either since we can't create content with this metadata embedded. Even if they did, they metadata would only work on display side DV. I have requested support for this in DDE and DV 4.0. Fingers crossed and then we can create the patterns. Basically this metadata allows us to turn off tone mapping to measure the panel. You can't do this with HDR10/10+.

We generate most of our patterns directly in 4:2:0 to avoid chroma downsampling loss and alignment issues. Today we can't use that for DV. The current DDE engine from Dolby only works on ProRes and IMF files, both of which are lossy compressed. Pixelogic works on 16-bit TIFFs, which still means a conversion from RGB. So for real content, Pixelogic works fine.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

Does DV max out your backlight setting?

That very much depends on the display. On the LG 6 and 7 series, OLED light is actually a mid-tone adjustment in DV (not HDR10), so it does not go to 100. This caused a lot of confusion. In 2019 (I forget the 2018 behavior) they changed it so it defaults to 100 to avoid this confusion.

For DV LL, I am not sure what the backlight does.

[DisplayCalNoob]

@Geoff D Its a Vizio P Series 600 nits

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

That very much depends on the display. On the LG 6 and 7 series, OLED light is actually a mid-tone adjustment in DV (not HDR10), so it does not go to 100. This caused a lot of confusion. In 2019 (I forget the 2018 behavior) they changed it so it defaults to 100 to avoid this confusion.

For DV LL, I am not sure what the backlight does.

On the Vizio, which is a 2016 model. Contrast lowered to prevent white clipping up to 4000 nits, with a increase to the backlight, adds the detail that the dynamic tone mapping is suppose to display at 600 nits.

I think DV tone mapping is always working correctly, but you will not see it at work with white being clipped above the display capabilities. I use to get posterization in bright colors, now I don't and bright colors exhibit more visible detail.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

On the Vizio, which is a 2016 model. Contrast lowered to prevent white clipping up to 4000 nits, with a increase to the backlight, adds the detail that the dynamic tone mapping is suppose to display at 600 nits.

I think DV tone mapping is always working correctly, but you will not see it at work with white being clipped above the display capabilities. I use to get posterization in bright colors, now I don't and bright colors exhibit more visible detail.

Which UHD BD player are you using with the VIZIO? Is the FW up to date? Not sure if 2016 has the latest DV update.

[Stacey Spears]

Some notes on DV LL. In this mode, the player looks at the display EDID to figure out what the display capability is. It then uses that to run the full DV processing in the player. It then sends HDR12 to the display. The display then does additional tone mapping on top. Not 100% sure if it is the same tone mapping as HDR10 or not.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

We use the the label cd/m^2 in place of nits. The mean the same thing, nits is sort of the slang term used as it is easier to say.....

I couldn’t get the up arrow properly typed in from my keyboard back in the day - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post11444059

Plus, my mind was also on food.

P.S.
Good to see you back

[koberulz]

So what's the story with this, if DV test patterns are so complex to make? https://diversifiedvideosolutions.com/products.html

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Some notes on DV LL. In this mode, the player looks at the display EDID to figure out what the display capability is. It then uses that to run the full DV processing in the player. It then sends HDR12 to the display. The display then does additional tone mapping on top. Not 100% sure if it is the same tone mapping as HDR10 or not.

The DV LL as interpreted by the combo of the ZD9 and OPPO 203 doesn't correspond to the same level of mapping/clipping as my calibrated viewing modes when set to the same contrast etc, so although it may be using the same internal curve on the pre-mapped signal it's not got the same levels of output in terms of luminance and highlight retention therein, just as Cinema Pro has a different offset than Cinema Home when viewing HDR10. That's why I'm jonesing for DV test patterns, so I can measure what it's actually doing with contrast set to X level. Any chance you can make some available - even with all the caveats you described - as a download for buyers of the disc?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by koberulz

So what's the story with this, if DV test patterns are so complex to make? https://diversifiedvideosolutions.com/products.html

Not to speak for Stacey but it sounds as if the authoring tools don't permit the functionality that is desired, whereas the much simpler arrangement for Ryan's patterns means he doesn't have to worry about that. He also uses the streaming profile for DV only which may play into it.

Still, I might have to cave in and buy his anyway, even if it just the streaming profile.

[koberulz]

So it's a disc thing, rather than a video thing?

And thus, I'd be better off getting those than this disc anyway, I presume? Seeing as I have DV-capable gear. Not that I've looked into calibrating in HDR at all, and TBH the white balance controls are still so fiddly that there's a horrendous purple patch at about 30 IRE in my SDR calibration at the moment that's been there for a couple of years now because I can't be assed trying to fix it...

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Which UHD BD player are you using with the VIZIO? Is the FW up to date? Not sure if 2016 has the latest DV update.

Player is a LG UP970, checked to see if there is a update available two werks ago, no update available. Last display update was a little over a two months ago.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by koberulz

So what's the story with this, if DV test patterns are so complex to make? https://diversifiedvideosolutions.com/products.html

1. His DV patterns are profile 5, not profile 7 (UHD BD).
2. According to his notes, I assume his L1 is created by Resolve.
3. MEL based patterns. (10-bit) Fine for window patterns.
4. IPT encoded. BD uses YCbCr.

He has stayed on top of new stuff with one of the first UHD HDR discs, HLG patterns and now DV. He also has a CalMAN workflow to go with it, which is nice.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I couldn’t get the up arrow properly typed in from my keyboard back in the day - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post11444059

Plus, my mind was also on food.

P.S.
Good to see you back

Had a kidney stone to deal with.

I wanted to use superscript for the 2, but did not see it as an option in the forum tools. Even my courier, which is a fixed width, did not format correctly. I used that to align the values. On the disc, we do use superscript for the 2.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

Player is a LG UP970, checked to see if there is a update available two werks ago, no update available. Last display update was a little over a two months ago.

David tested an LG player during authoring and said it had a lot of banding in the player. Not sure if it sends LL or tunneled to the display. I have personally never seen an LG player. It is Mediatek based I believe.

[Scenic Labs]

(Distributor here) I keep hitting refresh on the carrier's website. The 1st pallet left Czech Republic on Lufthansa Cargo (air) yesterday but I don't see it checked in yet at JFK. It was scheduled for today, but I imagine that a new delivery date will appear later. I'll keep you posted. Also going to update the site as well as shoot a quick email to anybody who already preordered.

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Yes. The distributor is receiving the discs today, if all goes well, and he will then ship to Amazon.com and .ca shortly.

Today you can order directly from the distributors website.

As soon as dealers start to receive them, we will update our website.