Sony Black Crush on late-2014 / early-2015 BDs

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

That one looks okay, actually.

If it isn't, I think there's good reason to expect Sony not to have global distribution rights for this exact film.

I love Kaley, so the above might be wishful thinking.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by BONKERS

It would really suck to have to import a BDP and foreign copies of movies to get the proper picture. I hope something happens.

You don't have to import a player to play region B movies. Many different players available in the US can be made region free. You should have an Oppo anyway, and there are mod kits for every model available.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by BONKERS

Yes. We've said this quite a few times now. And people don't seem to grasp it. No offense

None taken, I'm a co-OP of the thread. I just wasn't able to follow 80% of the tech talk about TV signal outputs that was going on for a page or two, and wanted to be absolutely sure I wasn't saying something incorrect. But yep, these titles are unfixably ruined on these discs. Only new discs will help.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Naiera

I, too, think that the best bet is to see Fury and The Interview released somewhere Sony isn't doing it. I know about the Fury options and could easily remove any forced subs (unless of course they're "burned in" to the image).

We should accept that this effort is being put into avoiding these type of releases in the future. Unfortunately.

Luckily FURY has been released in multiple foreign markets (Poland, Taiwan, etc) by other companies, with unmolested transfers. Sadly THE INTERVIEW, the film I care about, seems to be controlled by Sony in all markets so I don't think we'll get a proper BD of it unless Sony corrects their master.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Naiera

You don't have to import a player to play region B movies. Many different players available in the US can be made region free. You should have an Oppo anyway, and there are mod kits for every model available.

Yep, also many players will play about 80% of foreign region-locked discs if you just hit STOP and then TOP MENU. It works for me on my Panasonic, though I have a backup offbrand region-free player just in case for the few the trick won't work on.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Luckily FURY has been released in multiple foreign markets (Poland, Taiwan, etc) by other companies, with unmolested transfers. Sadly THE INTERVIEW, the film I care about, seems to be controlled by Sony in all markets so I don't think we'll get a proper BD of it unless Sony corrects their master.

I know. The Taiwanese Fury seems to have unacceptable general PQ, and then there's the Polish release with forced subs.

As far as The Interview goes, I think I'll catch it on Netflix. Maybe when the new Apple TV with, hopefully, 24Hz comes out.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by BONKERS

Y
It would really suck to have to import a BDP and foreign copies of movies to get the proper picture. I hope something happens.

There are many foreign copies of movies that have the proper picture compared to US releases. That would be nothing new.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by Naiera

I know. The Taiwanese Fury seems to have unacceptable general PQ, and then there's the Polish release with forced subs.

You seem to be misinformed. I own the Polish edition and the subs are not forced. It is true, however, that (at least on the PS3) they cannot be disabled by pressing the "Subtitle" button on the remote while the movie is in playback; you are required to select to turn the subs off from the main menu to take them away.

[Naiera]

I think this whole thread is misinformed then. If the subs can just be removed, that's a good thing in any case

[wesslan]

Not sure if these caps are true but they state German Fury (also sony) disc as "better"

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/124984

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/124996

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/124987

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by wesslan

Not sure if these caps are true but they state German Fury (also sony) disc as "better"

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/124984

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/124996

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/124987

VERY interesting!! Would suggest Sony has quietly corrected the "black crush" in their master.

I'll be looking forward to seeing how THE INTERVIEW looks when it gets released across Europe. If it is fixed, I'll definitely be buying a foreign disc of that film, unless Sony, by some miracle, offers a replacement plan in the US.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

VERY interesting!! Would suggest Sony has quietly corrected the "black crush" in their master.

I'm probably wrong, but I think the German disc is the Limited RGB version of the original video master presented in a Full RGB levels. If you change the US capture to 16-235 and compare them they're identical, apart from the missing information lost through black-crush (and the letterboxing which I've restored to 000 RGB levels). Full and Limited levels confuse the heck out of me, but that what it looks like to my untrained eyes!

German Release

US Release adjusted to 16-235

I don't think this is as good as it should be. The shot with the horse has some issues, because of the change.

German Release

[jscoggins]

[filmmusic]

Now if they do the same to My Best Friends' wedding and My Girl that I want to buy, I would be extremely happy!


edit:Hmmm.. I see My Girl has already been released in Germany, less than a month after USA, so I guess it will be the same version since they hadn't had time to look into the problem and correct it.

[amoergosum]

Originally Posted by wesslan

Not sure if these caps are true but they state German Fury (also sony) disc as "better"

So does anyone know?

[jscoggins]

Amazon Germany indicates that Sony is indeed releasing it. You guys even get a green case.

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by chip75

I'm probably wrong, but I think the German disc is the Limited RGB version of the original video master presented in a Full RGB levels. If you change the US capture to 16-235 and compare them they're identical, apart from the missing information lost through black-crush (and the letterboxing which I've restored to 000 RGB levels). Full and Limited levels confuse the heck out of me, but that what it looks like to my untrained eyes!

German Release

US Release adjusted to 16-235

If you look at the box to the left of his shoulder (our left, his right shoulder) even with this adjustment there's texture visible on the side of the box in the German version which is just solid black on the US version.

However, mousing over between the two versions at the link, the German one does otherwise look a tad washed out, though that might just be my display.

Strange thing - I thought the UK version was said to be the same as the US version. Have Sony really put out different versions in Europe?

Maybe they have.

Amazon UK (and other sites) list the UK disc as English-only soundtrack, Amazon France as English, French, Russian and Ukranian.

Steve W

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Pecker

Strange thing - I thought the UK version was said to be the same as the US version. Have Sony really put out different versions in Europe?

Sony, do occasionally put out different discs (I think FOX do as well), for the different European countries, so this might be a similar case. As far as I know the US release is the same as the UK release.

The issue does seem to be RGB Level related, I don't think it's a coincidence, that if you take the German capture and change the Input Levels to 16-235, then it becomes identical to the US release, and if you do what I did it, the US release becomes identical to the German release (although I can't restore the information lost). At the moment I don't think any release is 100% as intended.

Hopefully if they have accepted the fault, they'll try and re-issue the affected titles and offer replacements to those that want them.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by chip75

Hopefully if they have accepted the fault, they'll try and re-issue the affected titles and offer replacements to those that want them.

I doubt many people have noticed it so..
People over at home theater forum even give 5 out of 5 for video quality of these black crushed discs.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

Sony, do occasionally put out different discs (I think FOX do as well), for the different European countries, so this might be a similar case. As far as I know the US release is the same as the UK release.

The issue does seem to be RGB Level related, I don't think it's a coincidence, that if you take the German capture and change the Input Levels to 16-235, then it becomes identical to the US release, and if you do what I did it, the US release becomes identical to the German release (although I can't restore the information lost). At the moment I don't think any release is 100% as intended.

Hopefully if they have accepted the fault, they'll try and re-issue the affected titles and offer replacements to those that want them.

How can it be identical if you can't then bring back the detail that was crushed? As was discussed earlier in this thread (or the main Fury one) it clearly *is* a PC-to-video level screw-up, probably a double application of the 16-235 conversion. While the shadow detail in the German edition looks a little hinky and posterised (it doesn't roll off particularly naturally), at least we can now see the shadow detail because this master has been caught before the incorrect extra 16-235 compression has been applied.

That slightly 'off' look to the shadows might be endemic to the initial video pass, I dunno. Wouldn't be the first time that such a stylised look hasn't translated all that well to 8-bit Rec.709, so hopefully the 10-bit P3 version for UHD BD will make a better job of it. I'm not gonna buy this again on Blu.