Why is there grain?

[Meeklo]

Best question I have yet to see on this forum...why do some movies have grain.

I was led to believe that movies made within the past 2 years would be shot using cameras that would provide a perfect HD picture yet I haven't seen a movie (except for The Dark Knight, check my collection as to which movies I've seen on bluray) that didn't have some grain to it.

With modern technology, you'd think they'd be able to greatly reduce, if even eliminate, grain.

Mods...if you feel the need to move this thread, please let it sit here for a few days as this is the most popular topic forum and I would like the most responses as possible.

[Blaumann]

You actually haven't seen this question being asked before? Wow, there are thousands of posts about this topic.....

Grain is a natural part of film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_st...and_properties
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_grain

To this day, almost all movies are still shot on film, and not using HD Cameras as i think you're implying. Blu-ray is coming so close to the original film, that it is able to reproduce the film grain. Which is a good thing btw.

[chriharr]

Grain has been in motion pictures for over a 120 years. people have accepted it as the standard for how motion pictures look as well. the majority love or even embrace it.

even Digital cameras have grain (it's called image noise) Digital or Analog the film will still feature grain no matter what. deal with it!

the last thing people want to see is a film that has been through all kinds of softening filters to reduce the appearance of grain, people want to see it as close to the source as possible.

[Jayromy]

Originally Posted by Blaumann

You actually haven't seen this question being asked before? Wow, there are thousands of posts about this topic.....

Grain is a natural part of film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_st...and_properties
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_grain

To this day, almost all movies are still shot on film, and not using HD Cameras as i think you're implying. Blu-ray is coming so close to the original film, that it is able to reproduce the film grain. Which is a good thing btw.

This is true. Moreover, including prominent grain is often times an aesthetic choice by the filmmaker. Most images can be digitally scrubbed in post-production to reduce or eliminate grain, but that doesn't always coincide with the director's vision. Grain is indeed a good thing, particularly in catalogue titles, and through the clarity of Blu-ray, adds luster to the films and yields an image that is much closer to the original. IMO, removing or scrubbing the grain from a film like The Godfather would make it look cheap and lessen it's impact. It's really up to the filmmaker...but don't discount grain.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Wow... yes, this question has been asked over and over and over and over and over again on this forum. And, although I acknowledge the presence of film grain and can appreciate its function, I desperately look forward to the day when filmmakers start using digital cameras with hard drives instead of film as their capture method. I want the image to be as life-like as possible to the extent that my television screen LITERALLY seems like a single pane of glass between my living room and the world in which the film is taking place.

I WANT THAT SOOOOO BAD!!!

[RiseDarthVader]

You will still get Digital noise which is similar to grain.

[phantompwr]

Originally Posted by RiseDarthVader

You will still get Digital noise which is similar to grain.

True, and Digital Noise is much worse than film grain (IMHO)

[jasontkelley1746]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Wow... yes, this question has been asked over and over and over and over and over again on this forum. And, although I acknowledge the presence of film grain and can appreciate its function, I desperately look forward to the day when filmmakers start using digital cameras with hard drives instead of film as their capture method. I want the image to be as life-like as possible to the extent that my television screen LITERALLY seems like a single pane of glass between my living room and the world in which the film is taking place.

I WANT THAT SOOOOO BAD!!!

+1 exactly my thoughts
all these film guru's get so angry when people don't like grain in all there films.
I also want my tv to look like I am looking through a window into another world.

[Sky_Captain]

Originally Posted by jasontkelley1746

+1 exactly my thoughts
all these film guru's get so angry when people don't like grain in all there films.
I also want my tv to look like I am looking through a window into another world.

Well look out your window, then. Leave the rest of us in peace.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Wow... yes, this question has been asked over and over and over and over and over again on this forum. And, although I acknowledge the presence of film grain and can appreciate its function, I desperately look forward to the day when filmmakers start using digital cameras with hard drives instead of film as their capture method. I want the image to be as life-like as possible to the extent that my television screen LITERALLY seems like a single pane of glass between my living room and the world in which the film is taking place.

I WANT THAT SOOOOO BAD!!!

The problem with that is you're potentially killing your movie for anything but today's presentations. Considering that at some point TV and home media resolutions WILL increase in resolution, and that HD cameras are at a set resolution, they're going to look like SD garbage in the future. Also, you can't use that for big movie-screen viewing as it doesn't scale well.

Currently film is able to pull as much as 8k resolution and has the potential to go even further. HD cameras can in no way touch that. What will happen however is that as the resolution goes up, grain becomes finer and less discernable. It's still there as it's the entire image, but less distinguishable as an individual speck.

...I'm totally a layman, so those folks that have more knowledge on the subject feel free to jump in and correct me, but I believe the above to be correct.

[dgator783]

We need grain in our diets and our films.....viva la grain!!

[hendra]

Originally Posted by Meeklo

I haven't seen a movie (except for The Dark Knight, check my collection as to which movies I've seen on bluray) that didn't have some grain to it.

PIXAR movies have no grain. It's picture perfect

[Bruce Morrison]

I don't mind "normal" amounts of film grain, but I recently bought the DVD of 'Becket' (a 1964 film) and that has what I would consider to be excessive grain in some parts, particularly the interior scenes. In fact, it's so heavy at times that it causes some rapid pulsing-type fluctuation in the colour intensity and/or brightness. It's difficult to identify exactly which attribute is affected, but the resulting instability in the image quality is quite distracting.

I'm wondering whether the Blu-ray edition would be any better in this respect. Has anyone got the BD and could comment?

[Sussudio]

Originally Posted by Meeklo

Best question I have yet to see on this forum...why do some movies have grain.

answers to your question:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ght=film+grain
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ght=film+grain
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ght=film+grain
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ght=film+grain
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ght=film+grain
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ght=film+grain
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ght=film+grain
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ght=film+grain
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ght=film+grain
and the list goes on...

please dont ask the mods to leave a thread up for the sole reason that you can't use the search function. i'm not trying to be mean, but you act like this is the first time this question has been asked and it's one of the most discussed topics on this forum. search before you start, that's my motto.

[ryoohki]

The higher the resolution, the more precise the image is, the bigger you're display is, the closer you sit, the more you'll see it because it's high def enought for you're eye to see it.

You never did go to a theater??

DNR always have a drawback. It remove fine detail and 1080p is all about that. Remove fine detail and you have a very fine DVD upconvert.

and digital solve anything. it have noise. TDK have plenty of grain during the 35mm sequences. The Imax sequence have it also but the grain on 70mm is so small that even 1080p can't reproduce it

[Esox50]

Without grain, there would be no cereal, bread, or grain based spirits and beer. I cannot live without grain...

[monkeyjb1988]

Originally Posted by hendra

PIXAR movies have no grain. It's picture perfect

I'm sure by you know this, but just in case: Pixar makes computer animated films. When making Blu-Rays, they just take the digital image and put it on the disc. They don't need to go through film like Day the Earth Stood Still or Conquest of Planet of the Apes (both older films I saw on Blu recently) because the computer would have to have the image to print it to film and that's the same one they use for Blu. And to really kill it, I have the Pixar shorts on Blu and the three oldest shorts have grain or something (see review on this site for reasons).

Grain is okay on blu. The films still look beautiful and clear.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Meeklo

Best question I have yet to see on this forum...why do some movies have grain.

I was led to believe that movies made within the past 2 years would be shot using cameras that would provide a perfect HD picture yet I haven't seen a movie (except for The Dark Knight, check my collection as to which movies I've seen on bluray) that didn't have some grain to it.

With modern technology, you'd think they'd be able to greatly reduce, if even eliminate, grain.Mods...if you feel the need to move this thread, please let it sit here for a few days as this is the most popular topic forum and I would like the most responses as possible.

They can, and have. There are plenty of movies that have been ruined this way. I wont name them all, but if you like movies with air-brushed manequins instead of actors, then that is what excessive grain removal yields.

[Windows V]

I agree that if grain is present in a movie, it should NOT be removed, as that's how the movie was made.

That would be something like taking a great black and white movie and colourising it

BUT

The thing is, just because grain has been in movies since forever, doesn't mean all movies should be shot with grain. Surely the cameras of today can shoot films without any grain? If so, why not? Saying that all movies should have grain even if we have the technology to shoot film without having grain would be like saying all movies should be black and white...

[Midnightsailor]

Grain = Good