Still not convinced

[saprano]

Originally Posted by clemdog

All these films recently released on 4K discs are relatively new releases and the film makers ARE involved.

Anyone who thinks any of these studios are releasing these without the film makers approving the "look" of the final masters is badly misinformed...

No studio is just spinning knobs and adding colors on a whim . That's not how this works. It's not how any of this works.

Been missing Universal's catalogue titles? The CEO's kids must stop by and do their transfers.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by clemdog

All these films recently released on 4K discs are relatively new releases and the film makers ARE involved.

Anyone who thinks any of these studios are releasing these without the film makers approving the "look" of the final masters is badly misinformed...

No studio is just spinning knobs and adding colors on a whim. That's not how this works. It's not how any of this works.

Filmmakers ARE NOT all involved

[larrs]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I think his point is that "realism" isn't necessarily the intent. It's visual storytelling and individual elements are often stylized to serve a story function. We can't just assume that a more (subjectively) realistic look is closer to the filmmakers' intent.

This is true. Otherwise, why not just turn up the FI to max and enjoy the SOE, it's more "real" looking.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Seems to be conflicting reports on avs about the orange/red flare in mad max. Some are saying it's red on their hdr tv and others say orange. Some are saying that if some do see red, that means that the ones seeing orange probably have a P3 color out of whack.

I think that's a given at this stage of proceedings: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y#post11967571

And for that I won't blame HDR/UHD itself, but on the lack of available calibration assets. The software is out there, the meters are out there, but the test patterns themselves are MIA. Heck, just a set of primary/secondary colour slides mastered in 2020 colour space (or with P3 mapped out to 2020) would be a huge step in the right direction. [edit] And that would even help someone like me with a SDR 709 set, because I could play the colour saturation slides and then measure how accurately the 2020 to 709 transform is being done.

[jaaguir]

Originally Posted by saprano

Bluray isn't DVD. The quality is so much higher. You really cant compare the two.

People need to understand that with DVD we went from a few hundred thousand pixels, SD 4:3 image, 4:3 tube Televisions, to HD 2K 16:9 displays. That was a huge change over.

You have a right to qualify the leap from DVD to BD anyway you want, and I get your overall point, but you're simply incorrect there. DVD was already 16:9 since its launch. The leap from VHS to DVD was huge indeed, introducing 16:9 with anamorphic encoding and all the perks of digital.
And when BD launched, I got sick of reading how on most displays people couldn't tell the difference. Right now I could accuse you of minimizing the leap from BD to UHD like those people did with BD, and who's to say I'm wrong? It can be a quite subjective issue.

Originally Posted by saprano

This right here is what i was talking about. You can't have a different opinion around here without being accused of something.

But i guess it's human nature. Nobody wants to feel like they've spent alot of money for no reason. We all want to feel like we've made the right choice. With UHD, some want there to be this night and day difference all the time when there is none to justify their purchase.

Following your argument, nobody wants to feel like they can't upgrade when maybe they'd like to either, so they convince themselves that the upgrade is not worth it. Or simply, nobody wants to feel like they're wrong, after publicly declaring their stance on something? Those are not valid ways to judge a format.
You can have all the doubts you want about the new format, but how can you just state that there is simply no improvement to get from it without giving even the benefit of the doubt to the opinions of actual owners and professional reviewers?
I've been into this long enough to respect those opinions. I'm pretty sure that with the right screen UHD can be a big leap most of the time. You're entitled to disagree, but please don't lightly accuse other people of being deluded because they have a different opinion. Just as other people will always believe that DVD is good enough, and well, what are you going to do? It's a matter of objective data to some degree (and there's data in favor of UHD too), but it's also a matter of personal characteristics.

[jaaguir]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Said no one ever.....

I assure you they did.

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

When I watched my first Blu-ray in 2007, a copy of Casino Royale that Sony sent me as a gift for my PS3, in that moment I became a movie collector.
I couldn't believe what I was watching....

I had a fair number of DVDs but Blu-ray changed the way I considered video quality and movie quality forever....

So the theory "it was the same for DVDs to Blu-ray" is just hilarious

I guess you realize that's an absolutely personal and subjective feeling that you're expressing in that post, and then with the last sentence you pretend to conclude a sort of universal truth out of it. For some people, BD to UHD maybe feels like DVD to BD.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by pawel86ck

Doctorossi@ I dont know how HDR conversion looks like, but it's hard to imagine, that film studios are adding nonexistent details.

Whether they're "adding nonexistent details" isn't the question. The dynamic range may be present in the original photography, but that doesn't mean it was meant to be seen. There are plenty of boom mics, lighting baffles and cue cards in original photography that aren't meant to be seen either.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by reanimator

It's actually not, Doc. The industry is all moving in the same direction: high dynamic range.

Yes, it is- high dynamic range is another direction from the original visual design of movies created without it in mind.

Originally Posted by reanimator

The reason you have comparatively few theatrical films graded in HDR is that there are comparatively few movie theaters that are capable of projecting HDR.

The reason is because that lack of theaters meant that movies weren't designed for it.

Your argument could justify colorization of black and white movies ("the reason they didn't shoot them in color was only because there was no color film available at the time!").

[saprano]

Originally Posted by jaaguir

You have a right to qualify the leap from DVD to BD anyway you want, and I get your overall point, but you're simply incorrect there. DVD was already 16:9 since its launch. The leap from VHS to DVD was huge indeed, introducing 16:9 with anamorphic encoding and all the perks of digital.
And when BD launched, I got sick of reading how on most displays people couldn't tell the difference.

The change to 16:9 flat displays and bigger sizes was an upgrade itself is my point.

Right now I could accuse you of minimizing the leap from BD to UHD like those people did with BD, and who's to say I'm wrong? It can be a quite subjective issue.

Well you are wrong cause i'm not trying to do that at all.

Following your argument, nobody wants to feel like they can't upgrade when maybe they'd like to either, so they convince themselves that the upgrade is not worth it.

I've read more sound arguments about why one is waiting to upgrade, or might not want to upgrade, and honest thoughts about UHD in general, than these knee-jerk responses when someone questions UHD.

how can you just state that there is simply no improvement to get from it without giving even the benefit of the doubt to the opinions of actual owners and professional reviewers?

This is the problem right here, reading comprehension. I never said there's no improvement, that wouldn't make any sense. I'm saying the leap in quality, and hardware, is not as huge as it was when we changed over to HDTV. Even though UHD has better specs, bluray PQ will still be seen as reference (depending on the bluray of course). It won't be looked back on like DVD.

[Adrian Wright]

To be honest, I am more astounded that this thread still continues to rumble on with all the drivel and dross contained within it.

Should have been closed long, long ago. Original poster is not convinced, other people are. Cannot agree to disagree, and it goes on and on and on and on and on........

[bruceames]

The 4k resolution upgrade by itself is nowhere near DVD-->BD. I could see that with the Sony 4k downloads. Especially on the older movies that don't have a good master. On some of them you can hardly tell the difference and I would fail a blind test for sure. For example Alamo Bay (which is a Twilight Time release but like several others are also available on the download site for the same high price).

And even on those where there is a really good master and is taken from the original negative, you really only notice the difference on scenes with lots of detail, like a crowd of people for example. A scene with talking heads will look nearly the same, unless there are lots of objects in the background which may reveal it's not just a 1080p picture you're looking at.

But with the other improvements of the wider color gamut, 10 bit depth and HDR, it really adds a lot more than simple resolution. That's why it has the potential to be an even bigger visual upgrade than Blu-ray was. But this will be mainly for new movies going forward and not so much catalog, especially the older movies. They are what they are (although I am anxious to see what they've done with The Godfather and Lawrence of Arabia, and it's nice to know that the former was done with director approval).

UHD BD will be mainly a new release format, with some catalog mixed in. The only question is how much catalog and to what extent they'll use HDR. Like Ray said, everyone has the choice of whether to buy it or not to buy it.

[Mr. Cinema]

I ended my 4K BD experiment a couple of weeks ago. I just decided it wasn't worth the investment right now. I thought The Martian looked really good on my Samsung 65", but it didn't blow me away like I was hoping. I'm probably going to stick with plain ol' BD for the foreseeable future.

[Cobolisdead]

I remember two years, standing in Best Buy, looking at their two new Sony 4K tvs. No HDR, no expanded color, no local dimming, but they were hooked up to Sony's Media player. Those were two of the nicest displays I have ever seen. Showing some beautiful cityscapes, baseball fields, nature scenery, and scenes from the Total Recall remake film.

Ever since that day, I always question people's vision when they say things like "4K only matters when you have 65" or bigger screen", or "4K without HDR isn't that much of an improvement".

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Adrian Wright

To be honest, I am more astounded that this thread still continues to rumble on with all the drivel and dross contained within it.

Should have been closed long, long ago. Original poster is not convinced, other people are. Cannot agree to disagree, and it goes on and on and on and on and on........

Why are you interested/anxious to see it closed? Is discussion not the purpose of a discussion thread? If you don't have any further interest in discussing the topic of this discussion thread, why are you here?

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think that's a given at this stage of proceedings: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y#post11967571

And for that I won't blame HDR/UHD itself, but on the lack of available calibration assets. The software is out there, the meters are out there, but the test patterns themselves are MIA. Heck, just a set of primary/secondary colour slides mastered in 2020 colour space (or with P3 mapped out to 2020) would be a huge step in the right direction. [edit] And that would even help someone like me with a SDR 709 set, because I could play the colour saturation slides and then measure how accurately the 2020 to 709 transform is being done.

Have you looked at the test patterns on the Sony UHD discs? They can be accessed the same way as standard Sony Blu-rays by entering SONY using the number keys in the main menu. You might find some patterns there that will get you what you want.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

I ended my 4K BD experiment a couple of weeks ago. I just decided it wasn't worth the investment right now. I thought The Martian looked really good on my Samsung 65", but it didn't blow me away like I was hoping. I'm probably going to stick with plain ol' BD for the foreseeable future.

Is your Samsung an HDR set?

[Adrian Wright]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Why are you interested/anxious to see it closed? Is discussion not the purpose of a discussion thread? If you don't have any further interest in discussing the topic of this discussion thread, why are you here?

And your input has been stellar too

I challenged you to show me WHERE it states that the HDR presentation of Mad Max Fury Road was incorrect and here I am still awaiting the proof to your accusation. Like 99% of this thread it is comical, and at best lacks any foundation or proof.

Your response ' I am sure I can drag something up' or words to that effect.

Go get yourself a 4K TV With HDR, and a UHD BD Player then come back and give us your OWN opinions instead of agreeing with those that suit your own agenda.

[Rocklandsboy]

There is value in this thread. I hope it stays open.

The decision to upgrade, or not, to a new format comes down to more than money or opportunity. It comes down to questions like this:

If the hype over UHD and HDR is justified, does a person really want to have the experience of watching 1000-2000 gorgeous blu-rays (100 years of classic movies) tarnished just because they watched Smurfs 2 and it looks really pretty?

That's the curse of any "upgrade" and why one shouldn't become overwhelmed or obsessed by it.

Having said that, I absolutely do not buy into the hyperbole that blu-ray (of which 4K BD is an extension) suddenly looks "crap" or "destroyed". Hell even DVD doesn't look "destroyed".

[infiniteCR]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

I ended my 4K BD experiment a couple of weeks ago. I just decided it wasn't worth the investment right now. I thought The Martian looked really good on my Samsung 65", but it didn't blow me away like I was hoping. I'm probably going to stick with plain ol' BD for the foreseeable future.

Were you watching the 4K BDs with HDR?

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Adrian Wright

And your input has been stellar too

Gee, thanks.

Originally Posted by Adrian Wright

I challenged you to show me WHERE it states that the HDR presentation of Mad Max Fury Road was incorrect and here I am still awaiting the proof to your accusation.

I'm not sure where you're expecting a phrase to the effect of "HDR is incorrect for this movie" to be written, but if you look at the release information about the movie on imdb, you will see that there was no theatrical HDR release.

Originally Posted by Adrian Wright

Go get yourself a 4K TV With HDR, and a UHD BD Player then come back and give us your OWN opinions instead of agreeing with those that suit your own agenda.

Watching some videos will somehow make me stop agreeing that facts are facts?