HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Follow-up recognition to one in a list of references given in a post on this thread from 11-24-2016, specifically, the bolded citation….

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Y. Asano, M.D. Fairchild and L. Blondé, Observer variability experiment using a four-primary display, AIC Colour 2013, Newcastle, 136-137 (2013).
Y. Asano and M.D. Fairchild, Observer variability experiment using a four-primary display, IS&T 21st Color & Imaging Conference, Albuquerque, 171-176 (2013).
D.L. Long and M.D. Fairchild, Reducing observer metamerism in wide-gamut multiprimary displays, SPIE/IS&T Electronic Imaging Conference, San Francisco, Volume 9394, 93940T (2015).
D.L. Long and M.D. Fairchild, Observer metamerism models and multiprimary display systems, SMPTE Annual Technical Conference, Hollywood, (2015).
M.D. Fairchild and R.L. Heckaman, Measuring observer metamerism: The Nimeroff approach, Color Research and Application 41, 115-124 (2016).
D.L. Long and M.D. Fairchild, Observer metamerism models and multiprimary display systems, SMPTE Motion Imaging Journal 125, 18-29 (2016).
M.J. Murdoch and M.D. Fairchild, Effects of inter-observer variation on color rendering metrics, IS&T 24th Color & Imaging Conference, San Diego, in press (2016).
Zhou, B. Grotton, K. Kruse, A. Skinner, A. DoVale, S. Farnand and M.D. Fairchild, Observer calibrator for color vision research, IS&T Electronic Imaging 2017 Conference, San Francisco, in press (2017).

As part of its 2017 awardings, SMPTE has recently announced a Journal Certificate of Merit will be presented to David Long and Mark D. Fairchild for the article “Observer Metamerism Models and Multiprimary Display Systems,” published in the April 2016 issue of the SMPTE Motion Imaging Journal

side note to students, SMPTE student membership (which gives access to the journal) is quite reasonable…
https://www.smpte.org/store/product/...vidual-student

[DanBa]

"Panasonic and 20th Century Fox have joined Samsung in its plan to offer HDR10+ as a royalty-free alternative to Dolby Vision. The HDR10+ format will be made available to more manufacturers in early 2018.

The three companies will make HDR10+ available to additional manufacturers of TVs, Blu-ray players, set-top boxes, and SoC vendors starting in January 2018. It will be royalty-free but requires that manufacturers pay a “nominal administrative fee”, the alliance said."
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1503914052

[HeatEquation]

"HDR10+ will be going nowhere, because Samsung will be the only ones supporting it."

So much for that.

[Geoff D]

I think that's a definite NO to Panasonic adopting Dolby Vision any time soon...

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think that's a definite NO to Panasonic adopting Dolby Vision any time soon...

The main issue for me with 10+ is they (the backers) will be stuck in 10 bit mode, with no vision (pun) of going forward.

But, it still seems like Dolby Vision will be the gradual path to UberHD on the next generation of displays whenever 12 bit panels become viable. Unless HDR12 is a thing by then. Also hoping for 4.4.4 over HDMI 2.1.

We still haven't heard what the DV on disc grey bars problem is really about.
I mean, what is the root cause? It's a little troubling that facts and honesty haven't been forthcoming to bolster opinions about the emerging DV technology.

I suppose time is the main factor here. Improvements never advance as fast as we want, and someday in the future we can look back and see why events and technology unfold the way they did. Let's never go back to the self destructive BD v HD-DVD war.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by gkolb

The main issue for me with 10+ is they (the backers) will be stuck in 10 bit mode, with no vision (pun) of going forward.

But, it still seems like Dolby Vision will be the gradual path to UberHD on the next generation of displays whenever 12 bit panels become viable. Unless HDR12 is a thing by then. Also hoping for 4.4.4 over HDMI 2.1.

It goes without saying that it will be a thing in a few years when we start seeing 12 bit consumer panels. I bet we'll see at least 2-3 other HDR formats created by then as well.

[Adrian Wright]

Originally Posted by DanBa

"Panasonic and 20th Century Fox have joined Samsung in its plan to offer HDR10+ as a royalty-free alternative to Dolby Vision. The HDR10+ format will be made available to more manufacturers in early 2018.

The three companies will make HDR10+ available to additional manufacturers of TVs, Blu-ray players, set-top boxes, and SoC vendors starting in January 2018. It will be royalty-free but requires that manufacturers pay a “nominal administrative fee”, the alliance said."
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1503914052

I can see this becoming the DTS-X equivalent for video, nothing more

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by gkolb

The main issue for me with 10+ is they (the backers) will be stuck in 10 bit mode, with no vision (pun) of going forward.

But, it still seems like Dolby Vision will be the gradual path to UberHD on the next generation of displays whenever 12 bit panels become viable. Unless HDR12 is a thing by then. Also hoping for 4.4.4 over HDMI 2.1.

We still haven't heard what the DV on disc grey bars problem is really about.
I mean, what is the root cause? It's a little troubling that facts and honesty haven't been forthcoming to bolster opinions about the emerging DV technology.

I suppose time is the main factor here. Improvements never advance as fast as we want, and someday in the future we can look back as see why events and technology unfold the way they did. Let's never go back to the self destructive BD v HD-DVD war.

4:4:4 over HDMI bandwidth isn't really the problem, it's the compression of it at the point of content delivery that's the key issue IMO. Dolby Vision apparently rebuilds the image into 4:2:2 as opposed to 4:2:0, fair enough, but 4:4:4 is another big increase in bandwidth over even 4:2:2 so I'd like to see how their special sauce would deal with that.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by Adrian Wright

I can see this becoming the DTS-X equivalent for video, nothing more

In other words, you're predicting that it will have similar content support to DV.

[Penton-Man]

Re: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post13993015


follow-up press coverage to those who didn’t attend the session -
http://www.etcentric.org/sony-pictur...dynamic-range/

Now back to…..

Canada Dry - Robot Service - Relax Harder Commercial :30 - YouTube

[FullyArray]

Samsung and Panny combo FTW.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

It goes without saying that it will be a thing in a few years when we start seeing 12 bit consumer panels. I bet we'll see at least 2-3 other HDR formats created by then as well.

Would these all be folded into the UHD platform like Dolby Vision is now, or are we talking about another physical format? I can't see another disc format ever taking hold (though to be fair a lot of us doubted UHD could).

[Geoff D]

3D Blu-ray was added to the spec several years after launch, no reason why other formats couldn't be but I don't really see what new formats there could be on top of what's out there already e.g. we've already got Technicolour, Dolby, HDR10, HDR10+, HLG and whatnot vying for attention. I still think 12-bit panel manufacture on any kind of mass level is a fair ways off so talk of HDR12 is somewhat premature, and seeing as 12-bit Dobly will likely become the de facto HDR method for 6 out of the 7 studios currently releasing on UHD Blu anyway I don't see the point of them pursuing HDR12.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Would these all be folded into the UHD platform like Dolby Vision is now, or are we talking about another physical format? I can't see another disc format ever taking hold (though to be fair a lot of us doubted UHD could).

Yes, that's what I meant.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

3D Blu-ray was added to the spec several years after launch, no reason why other formats couldn't be but I don't really see what new formats there could be on top of what's out there already e.g. we've already got Technicolour, Dolby, HDR10, HDR10+, HLG and whatnot vying for attention. I still think 12-bit panel manufacture on any kind of mass level is a fair ways off so talk of HDR12 is somewhat premature, and seeing as 12-bit Dobly will likely become the de facto HDR method for 6 out of the 7 studios currently releasing on UHD Blu anyway I don't see the point of them pursuing HDR12.

Static HDR12 would just replace static HDR10 as the base layer, once consumer 12 bit panels become the norm. 6 out of the 7 studios may support DV, but that doesn't guarantee that DV will be found on a considerable portion of UHD discs. On the contrary, any of the HDR formats that will be part of the UHD specs as optional layers, will likely be found on a very minuscule percentage of discs. The base static layer would still need to be upgraded so that people could take full advantage of the new technology on all discs.

[Staying Salty]

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...-industry.html

Originally Posted by puddy77

It seems that blog post is just misinterpreting a tweet. I see no proof of HDR10+ there, only HDR10.

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...-industry.html

It seems that blog post is just misinterpreting a tweet. I see no proof of HDR10+ there, only HDR10.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

follow-up press coverage to those who didn’t attend the session -
http://www.etcentric.org/sony-pictur...dynamic-range/

from thee above ^, “we’ll use new tools that come along to address problems that arise”.

for example, with HDR mastering, grain can become problematic, as some facilities and filmmakers have experienced even with non-classic (today’s) episodic TV content, e.g. scroll down to last paragraph - http://www.studiodaily.com/2017/08/c...ds-pilot-film/

[Penton-Man]

On the topic of HDR10+…..

Note to Oliver K. My friend , if you’re heading down south to Berlin to take in IFA, how about a report on this session - http://www.displaysummit.com/hdr10-hdr10-soc-for-tvs/.

I think you owe me for helping you procure Lawrence of Arabia for your screening back in the day…… https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...ostcount=16189

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Now back to…..
Canada Dry - Robot Service - Relax Harder Commercial :30 - YouTube

Note to wife :
For my birthday, I’d like one of those robots ^ to ‘relax harder’ during my down time, so I need not get up out of our vintage Eames lounge chair and ottoman to walk over to the fridge in the kitchen for another refreshment….