HDR Discussion Thread

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

yes ... and no

Then HDR-10+ won't make Bruce better lookin'. Best to stick with 480i, DVD non-anamorphic.

In the Christmas spirit, the best of the Die Hard Series:
• http://ca.ign.com/articles/2000/09/2...d-2-die-harder

And for details on the trilogy, back in the days of 4:3 TVs:
• https://forum.dvdtalk.com/archive/t-69464.html

That was FOX in the DVD beginning; I still have that Die Hard trilogy on non-anamorphic DVDs...3-disc set. ...With THX certification for best picture and sound.

Disney too was releasing non-anamorphic DVDs back in 1998-1999 ... I have a bunch of those. What were they thinking!
Twenty years later, almost, Disney has released three 4K UHD HDR Blu-ray movie titles.

_ _ _ _ _ _

And we are still waiting for Fox to release all Die Hard films on 4K HDR.
But with the recent news of FOX selling their precious assets to Disney, it might accentuate Bruce in high dynamic range.
That could help with the colors we saw almost twenty years ago, mainly red, and improve the special effects of Die Hard 2: Die Harder, which is the very best movie ever, with the fake snow, the bad guy, the amazing realism as if the film was based on actual events. I just don't know how to put it better than this. After all Christmas is only eleven days away.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In other news, unfortunately , the FCC voted to repeal net neutrality rules.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?438447...utrality-rules

After the vote ^ some reactions from the Hollywood community -
https://www.thewrap.com/hollywood-wa...nobody-asking/

and the New York Attorney General
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/14/new-...eutrality.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

PeterTHX, don’t say I don’t think about you…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYKMgoGreho#t=19m34s

[PaulGo]

An Open Internet is Essential for Financial Inclusion, FinTech Revolution

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0e1b4472ae520

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^ lead-in for new news…
https://www.sportsvideo.org/2017/12/...-knights-game/

Turns out DirecTV is broadcasting in HLG according to reports from AVS.

[Tns49]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Turns out DirecTV is broadcasting in HLG according to reports from AVS.

Not surprising. See the ATSC 3.0 standard. HLG appears to be where Broadcasters want to go for live TV.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

Is anyone else with me in thinking they went with the wrong core format for disc-based 4K? HDR10 is just not ideal for backwards compatibility.

I haven't seen them yet, but on paper HLG and Technicolor HDR really interest me as both SDR and HDR output are graded at the source, SDR is the core with HDR metadata on top. So content providers can control exactly how the SDR display will look rather than the end user viewing in SDR relying on potentially a very problematic SDR downconvert of a HDR source.

HDR10 and Dolby Vision could have been added on top as options, the same way DV is currently.

HLG doesn't have metadata, as the name implies it's a hybrid of regular gamma and a more logarithmic approach. The first part of the response curve apes regular gamma and it gets more HDR-y from there on out, and by using relative luminance rather than absolute values the rendering of the OOTF is left up to the specific display which is why it's such a good fit for broadcast: no need for dynamic metadata generation (a bit of a pain for continuous live broadcast) and SDR and HDR alike can be derived from the one signal.

That said it's not as good at HDR outright as what PQ-based formats are, and even the SDR part of the curve is said to not be as good as a genuine SDR broadcast. But this is also why it's great for broadcast because it's a more ephemeral experience, it's for people to turn on and tune in rather than endlessly pixel-peep to death. [edit] And because it's relative luminance you don't have to worry about tone mapping drastically reducing the APL which may adversely affect viewing in bright room conditions, the brightness will be as high - relatively - as to what your display allows or is set to.

So while I greatly sympathise with wanting a system on disc that's a better fit for all display types - a lot of my older posts in this thread and other techy 4K ones are me fretting about SDR conversion - we're still in the very early stages of 4K as a physical media format and these things will get smoothed out over the coming months and years.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Turns out DirecTV is broadcasting in HLG according to reports from AVS.

Shout out to Robert Zohn, who stood by his word very early this year that HLG HDR would be broadcasted in the USA before 2017 was over, despite a ton of naysayers saying it was a couple years away still. The AVS member posted some great looking photos of the NHL game in HLG HDR last night.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Turns out DirecTV is broadcasting in HLG according to reports from AVS.

As touched on in my reply to eddievanhalen in the post on the last page, in this hockey match case from last night, SLog-3 was most likely the master format and that was then converted (following the top 2 (on far right) flow diagram pathways into formats HLG and HD SDR for live distribution. Visual aid for those not following the concept –





On a more nuanced note, for those with a discerning eye) even though we now have cameras, for example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no9zq0VXbgY#t=26s which will capture in HLG (in-camera).

As an alternative, capturing in SLog-3 and using that as a master format before converting to HLG for distribution will provide a superior image especially in terms of color rendition.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ray0414

AVS

Humbly, I’m happy to have alerted lurking folks from other forums yesterday at 1:36 P.M. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post14464419
as to this unique viewing opportunity. I’m curious….was the pending broadcast discussed anywhere over there prior to my heads-up?

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

HLG doesn't have metadata, as the name implies it's a hybrid of regular gamma and a more logarithmic approach.

Gotcha. Apologies for getting things a little muddled, this is all very new to me. Is Technicolor the one with HDR metadata on top?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

Gotcha. Apologies for getting things a little muddled, this is all very new to me. Is Technicolor the one with HDR metadata on top?

Dolby Vision has dynamic metadata and so does HDR10+.

Dolby Vision also encodes as 12 bit on disc rather than 10 bit.

[elwaylite]

Just checked out the HLG HDR on Directv, looks great.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

Gotcha. Apologies for getting things a little muddled, this is all very new to me. Is Technicolor the one with HDR metadata on top?

Pretty much, yeah. [edit] They take an HDR master and create an SDR master from that, with the decisions taken by the colourist during that process being transcribed as conversion parameters, they then encode those parameters as content-dependent metadata along with the static mastering metadata in the one HDR stream. It's then up to the display to render it according to the data it receives. They can also do the reverse, encoding the base signal as SDR (to ensure maximum compatibility for broadcast purposes, say) but with HDR conversion metadata and it's said to work very well.

Their Advanced HDR system also claims to strip down any incoming HDR signal that it detects by applying the inverse EOTF (whichever is appropriate, e.g. PQ for HDR10/DV) and then applying its own special sauce HDR processing to output an image best suited for the target display, be it SDR or HDR.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Just checked out the HLG HDR on Directv, looks great.

What channels or programs did you find there?
My b-in-law has Direct TV.

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by gkolb

What channels or programs did you find there?
My b-in-law has Direct TV.

104 and 106. 106 is sports, they had HDR hockey last night. 104 has stuff on most of the time.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Pretty much, yeah. [edit] They take an HDR master and create an SDR master from that, with the decisions taken by the colourist during that process being transcribed as conversion parameters, they then encode those parameters as content-dependent metadata along with the static mastering metadata in the one HDR stream. It's then up to the display to render it according to the data it receives. They can also do the reverse, encoding the base signal as SDR (to ensure maximum compatibility for broadcast purposes, say) but with HDR conversion metadata and it's said to work very well.

Their Advanced HDR system also claims to strip down any incoming HDR signal that it detects by applying the inverse EOTF (whichever is appropriate, e.g. PQ for HDR10/DV) and then applying its own special sauce HDR processing to output an image best suited for the target display, be it SDR or HDR.

Thanks. So HLG is the easy one for broadcast but Technicolor is indeed looking like the best format for compatibility. So, correct my mistake on what HLG entails and it still looks like HDR10 was a bad start. [emoji6]

I’ll be very interested to see how Technicolor HDR catches on or not as the case may be. I hope it’s added to such players like the Oppo via firmware update should the need arise. Am I correct in hearing LG are adding it to their TVs via firmware upgrade? Mine is a 2016 model so I’m resigned to my TV missing out regardless.

[eddievanhalen]

The more I watch those Televisión Española 4K test channels with test material video of the guard change at Royal Palace, the more I dislike HLG. Color looks unnatural, almost pastel-like and oversaturated next to the great and natural looking PQ broadcast of the same material.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Humbly, I’m happy to have alerted lurking folks from other forums yesterday at 1:36 P.M. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post14464419
as to this unique viewing opportunity. I’m curious….was the pending broadcast discussed anywhere over there prior to my heads-up?

I don't think anyone knew. It caught a couple members off guard. I didn't find out til after it was over.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

Thanks. So HLG is the easy one for broadcast but Technicolor is indeed looking like the best format for compatibility. So, correct my mistake on what HLG entails and it still looks like HDR10 was a bad start. [emoji6]

I’ll be very interested to see how Technicolor HDR catches on or not as the case may be. I hope it’s added to such players like the Oppo via firmware update should the need arise. Am I correct in hearing LG are adding it to their TVs via firmware upgrade? Mine is a 2016 model so I’m resigned to my TV missing out regardless.

And as I said, I didn't disagree with you that there should've been some sort of properly mapped solution from the start. What you're overlooking though is that HLG was never a serious contender for UHD disc and the others were made optional because they're proprietary systems. HDR10 is open source, free to use, and something needed to be put into place if this thing was to launch sooner rather than later and get to market before 4K streaming killed 4K physical media in the cradle.