4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

It was the 24p that did it in the end, that and Warner. HD DVD didn't do 24p the way Blu-ray was it somehow down converted a 30p image to 24p whereas Blu-ray's did 24p without the hassle. What can be annoying now is that 4K will be native 60p rendering any argument over 24p a moot point.

Also something I would like to point out is that all this 24p does my head in. I need PAL speed up back which is what I hope 60p will achieve because a lot movies I had on DVD now feel like they are running backwards.

Another headache inducing experience with all this 24p was when I hooked up a 28" LCD TV to my PC everything was 24p which was beyond shi t for games.

PAL speed up begone! The power of 24p compels you! The power of 24p compels you! The power of 24p compels you!

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

As for AVC 2160p I'm sure it could provide a great picture at a high enough bitrate but its awfully wasteful and on a BD-50 would be the next gen equivalent of Blu-Rays substandard BD-25 MPEG-2 releases.

The point is that AVC is far more efficient than MPEG-2 and the encoders are damned-near capable of miracles these days. Trust me, I've seen 2160p clips with low bitrates look sensational. You call them (meaning the old Blu-rays, and, by association, AVC on Ultra Blu-ray) substandard, but there are people in the Kingdom of Heaven BD thread who are actually gonna hang on to their old MPEG-2 discs because the picture still looks stunning. Even though the new AVC version does afford slightly more detail and better compression, it's not the 'night and day' difference that people were led to believe because MPEG-2 has been slagged off for so long.

Sometimes it doesn't matter about bit rates and GBs and compression codecs: the proof of the pudding is in the eating. IF any potential AVC encoded UBDs turn out to be shite then I'll be sure to stick the boot in, but if they look great then I'm not gonna be second-guessing about how it might've looked with HEVC. I'll just be enjoying that 4K goodness while other people who haven't even seen it in action keep grumbling about 'old' codecs and 'old' BD50s and whatever.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

PAL speed up begone! The power of 24p compels you! The power of 24p compels you! The power of 24p compels you!

Testify! Testify!

Were all PAL films really just sped up from 24 to 25fps, or was there some kind of pulldown like what's done for NTSC?

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by singhcr

Testify! Testify!

Were all PAL films really just sped up from 24 to 25fps, or was there some kind of pulldown like what's done for NTSC?

Supposingly, there is a 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown. But I don't know which DVD uses this technique.

[GenPion]

Why are we even getting so debated on the topic? They said we will see 100 GB discs and bit-rates were said to be 50-60 range. With good transfers, and as long as the encoding used is as good as they are making it sound, we should all be very pleased when these discs are launched. Right now we need to wait and see what titles coming out are actually like, too, before debating too much on theoretical presentations.

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by singhcr

Testify! Testify!

Were all PAL films really just sped up from 24 to 25fps, or was there some kind of pulldown like what's done for NTSC?

On all PAL formats as well as broadcasts this is the case. This will also be the case for broadcast HD in 50Hz territories such as Europe. HD-DVD, I don't know what the case was there, the format mercifully failed.

[Lentulus Batiatus]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

Pointless to launch if they are not going 10 or 12 bit, lets face it if there is no chance of a war it may as well be a finished format that launches with a complete specification that is completely next generation.

As for the audio if there not going to bake in Dolby ATMOS and DTS MDA they may as well not bother, Blu-ray has at least one of them cobbled in so why can't 4K have it cemented in. Also why not up the Khz and bit depth whilst at it? There has to be some selling point other than more pixels.

Also from what I have read there will be a new laser which is more purple in colour than it is blue.

Not sure you understand what Dolby Atmos is, how it works or how it's implemented into Blu-ray discs. It won't be any different for a new 4K format. In fact, audio will likely not get any "upgrade" in a new video format. It's already HD and lossless as it is.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The point is that AVC is far more efficient than MPEG-2 and the encoders are damned-near capable of miracles these days. Trust me, I've seen 2160p clips with low bitrates look sensational. You call them (meaning the old Blu-rays, and, by association, AVC on Ultra Blu-ray) substandard, but there are people in the Kingdom of Heaven BD thread who are actually gonna hang on to their old MPEG-2 discs because the picture still looks stunning. Even though the new AVC version does afford slightly more detail and better compression, it's not the 'night and day' difference that people were led to believe because MPEG-2 has been slagged off for so long.

Sometimes it doesn't matter about bit rates and GBs and compression codecs: the proof of the pudding is in the eating. IF any potential AVC encoded UBDs turn out to be shite then I'll be sure to stick the boot in, but if they look great then I'm not gonna be second-guessing about how it might've looked with HEVC. I'll just be enjoying that 4K goodness while other people who haven't even seen it in action keep grumbling about 'old' codecs and 'old' BD50s and whatever.

The first release of Kingdom of Heaven was on a BD-50 with no extras. The extra space of a BD-50 helped that release get away with MPEG-2. It was also helped by its 2.35 aspect ratio

What I was referring to as substandard were early releases like The Fugitive, The Fifth Element, and The Terminator. All of which got remastered releases later on the make up for how crappy the original Blu-Rays were.

Also the ability to have high HEVC bitrates is the only reason for this new format to exist. Streaming can deliver 2160p cheaper and more conveniently than discs can but because of bandwidth limitations and data caps can't keep the bitrate high enough to make use of the medium and won't for several years so discs are still needed

[Geoff D]

Them releases being MPEG-2 had NOTHING to do with their less-than-stellar reputation. Fugitive, like several other early Warners titles, was mastered from a 1440x1080 source and looked just as shabby on the VC-1 HD DVD (I know, because I had it), Fifth Element used a very soft, old transfer and Terminator didn't fare much better, with another soft, DNR-afflicted master. It's no coincidence that the improved versions of all three movies have been due to entirely new transfers; if you took the old masters for each of those and encoded them with AVC they'd still look below par compared to most modern transfers and restorations.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

Anybody know what the format will be referred to as? 4K Blu-ray doesn't have the same ring to it as Blu-ray does, it overly complicates it if you ask me.

My guess the format will be called Blu-ray

The official player spec will be BD profile 6.0 but maybe higher (1.1 was PiP, 2.0 was live, 3.0 was audio and 3D was 5.0 so the next would be 6.0 since I am assume 4 was skipped because of Japanese superstition)

and the BD descriptor on the label will be UHD BD (but maybe 4k BD since it does look like that mischaracterization has gotten legs every time there is a UHD discussion) in the description of what you get (the same way you now see 3D BD if it contains that version of the movie or even Bonus view in the features when that is on the disk)

[Nick666]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Blu-ray

Blu-K

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

My guess the format will be called Blu-ray

The official player spec will be BD profile 6.0 but maybe higher (1.1 was PiP, 2.0 was live, 3.0 was audio and 3D was 5.0 so the next would be 6.0 since I am assume 4 was skipped because of Japanese superstition)

and the BD descriptor on the label will be UHD BD (but maybe 4k BD since it does look like that mischaracterization has gotten legs every time there is a UHD discussion) in the description of what you get (the same way you now see 3D BD if it contains that version of the movie or even Bonus view in the features when that is on the disk)

My guess is Ultra Blu-ray, or Ultra Blu-ray 4K.

Let's face it. Ultra High Definition is not exactly the most creative name they've come up with.

[Kirsty_Mc]

Well, whatever it's called I'll be preordering it when it comes out... As long as you can order a multi zone player.

Which brings me to a question... Do you think the addition of region coding would be a "shoot yourself in the foot" situation for 4K Blu-Ray?

My opinion... Yes. If you are mastering more expensive 3 layer discs then you will be increasing your costs (and hence price to the consumer) when (at least initially) there will be a limited market. Nothing will pi$$ off people who have invested in expensive kit than finding titles they want released somewhere else that they can not play. I think it's time the studios realise that we live in an increasingly globalised world and a hard worked for sum in a pound / dollar / euro or any other currency is just as good as any other.

[Geoff D]

As much I agree, the rights holders certainly won't. They will want to protect their content more fiercely than ever, which may well include more stringent region coding and/or online authentication. There's no way there'll be a 'multi zone' player available right from the start.

Blu-ray region coding's never really been 'cracked' as it were, as most of the multi-region solutions rely on a piece of hardware fitted inside the player. There are those cheap Momitsu things that have a handset heck, but they're so shoddily made you'd have to be desperate to use one of them as a main player. In rare cases the firmware code has been hacked and then reverse-engineered by a few enterprising souls, like what I bought for my previous Panasonic player, but by and large Blu-ray region coding has proved to be rather robust and I don't think that 4K BD will be relaxing those constraints.

But I'll always want multi region capability and I'll import the player if necessary; my first Region A Blu-ray player was a 20GB PS3 I bought cheap on ebay, then I bought a very flaky hardware modded Sony S470. It kept breaking down so I moved on to a Panasonic BDT110 from the US (bought straight off of amazon, which was handy), then I finally found that hacked firmware and bought a higher-end Panasonic player to do the job, and now I'm using a hardware modded Oppo 95.

There will always be a way around these things - even online authentication can be fooled by using a suitable IP address - but they usually take time. I'm not gonna mess around though, I'll gladly get one of the first UK players (unless a US import is cheaper) and then I'll work my way up from there. I've bought so many VHS and LD and DVD and BD players over the years, a few more 4K BD players won't matter.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Kirsty_Mc

Which brings me to a question... Do you think the addition of region coding would be a "shoot yourself in the foot" situation for 4K Blu-Ray?

DVD has 6 regions, BD was introduced with 3 optional regions and many studios don't bother with them. My guess no one cares enough to revisit it with 4k.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

DVD has 6 regions, BD was introduced with 3 optional regions and many studios don't bother with them. My guess no one cares enough to revisit it with 4k.

In all liklihood they will just retain the same regions used by Blu-ray. Some studios continue to region-lock most of their discs and it would be foolish of the Blu-ray Association to alienate those studios by eliminating that ability. It was one of the reasons that some studios didn't support HD DVD.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

My guess the format will be called Blu-ray

I'm sure it won't just be called Blu-Ray. I'm sure there will be some type of different packaging or label to designate this is a new format

My biggest fear after Disney's horrible abandoning of Blu-Ray 3D I worry something similar will happen with Ultra HD Blu-Rays. Lets be honest with most consumers still settling for DVDs or low bitrate streaming services its safe to say that the new format won't sell gangbusters right out the gate. It seems that studios set unrealistic sales expectations for new technologies and don't seem to care about niche markets. I hope that when the technology is introduced that studios will have realistic sales expectations and won't pull support when it doesn't sell as well as Thriller

[Lentulus Batiatus]

Disney (and other studios) still don't get how to have the market adapt to the better quality they are trying to sell. Abandoning 3D is utterly STUPID. They have the film in 3D. They are releasing it in other parts of the world so they've done the transfers and encodes. To keep it from store shelves because they feel (my conjecture but it seems plausible) that American consumers don't want it is just ridiculous. At this point in the 3DBD life-cycle there should be NO 2D stand-alone sets. Period. For 3D films of course. Stop selling 15 SKUs per film. Just have 1. Or 2 if you have some uber deluxe with a cheap-ass made in China trinket to get collectors panties all wet.

Maleficent should be released as a 3D + 2D + DVD set. No 2D only. No DVD only. $22.99 release day price for Disney's latest live action film with 3 discs and a downloadable digital copy. Done and done. Move up to 4K? Great! 4K 3D disc, 2D 2K disc and DVD. Done.

What's that American trailer park mother of 16? You don't have a 4K 3D TV? So? You want the DVD you buy the same set everyone else does. I mean if you can afford the $19.99 price for JUST the DVD you certainly can spend a little less on crack this week and pay $22.99 to get the only set we now sell.

Studios are STUPID. The format war showed that clearly. DVD should be 99% dead at this point yet they keep churning out discs even when the BD of the same film is the same price or even cheaper. Stop selling new DVDs to start. Stop having 2D and 3D releases. Move up ot 4K and put all the discs in 1 box and that's what you get. Stop pandering to the lowest common denominator nearly 10 years in.

Imagine if studios had continued to produce VHS the way they put out DVD today back in 2004. That's where we are at today and it's now 3 formats with a soon to be 4th out there plus streaming and downloads that weren't even a consideration when VHS was clearly dead.

[GenPion]

They keep pressing DVD's because a lot of people still buy them (and in higher numbers than Blu-ray). Even if there is a decline. As much as those of us on Blu-ray.com would like for the format to be even more widely accepted by consumers, including 3D Blu-ray, there are a lot of people who just don't care. Some of it is due to a poor marketing campaign from the studios and retailers and some of it is just that people don't see a point at all.

It is kind of ridiculous how we now have Blu-ray, Blu-ray 3D, DVD, Digital Copy (Flixster UV, Amazon, Vudu, iTunes, etc.), Streaming Digital, Digital to Own, and 4K Blu-ray coming up. So many formats and options it's kind of hilarious. As long as Blu-ray and it's incarnations (3D, the forthcoming 4K) options stay around though I'll be pleased.

[Huseyin]

4K? 1080? To be fair its for 40% of the market as a lot of people don't have a TV bigger than 40", my knowledge of 4K and up-scaling is limited but surely you need a TV over 40" to see the difference between the two resolutions.

[Geoff D]

I can't wait until the 4K BD + 3D BD + 2D BD + DVD + UV combos are released. If they call 4K BD 'Ultra Blu-ray' then they can call the packs 'Ultra Combos'. I just hope Nintendo haven't trademarked that phrase.