4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It says this in respect to the dual output:
That reads like they're in full CYA mode when it comes to the HDMI pass-through on whatever AV receiver the user may have, i.e. it may not work, which is fair enough.

Besides, HDCP 2.2 is a fundamental part of the AACS 2.0 platform (<- click for slide from AACS presentation) so them stating it in the manual like that still pertains to HDCP 2.2, amongst other things.

Copy protection is such crap. Every movie is available to download for free if you really wanted it. HDCP 2.2 is already cracked. It does nothing but cause problems.

I want to buy a 4K player and movies now and downscale them until I buy a 4K receiver and projector in a few years but I can't until I know for certain if the UHD players will downscale all the 4K discs to 1080 and play through my equipment without issue.

If it doesn't, I can buy a HDFury Integral to strip HDCP 2.2, but it's totally bogus that it's even necessary.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by CZAR

So I see people are debating between 4k vs 3D. So some are saying that the current 3D blurays will be better than the new 4K Ultra blurays? Is the technology similar? Just trying to get answers and figure this thing out and how I plan to go about this. Got Em!!

Ultimately its a matter of personal preference. The 3D version will have a much better sense of depth and spacing between objects. The Ultra HD version will have better contrast, color, and resolution. Whichever is more important to you

Its worth noting that with the exception of The Amazing Spider-Man 2 all Ultra HD Blu-Rays that also have a Blu-Ray 3D version are from 2k masters. Meaning the improvement comes little from extra resolution and more from high dynamic range and deeper color. I am of the personal opinion that high dynamic range and deeper color alone are not worth giving up 3D over but that again is just my preference

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

Copy protection is such crap. Every movie is available to download for free if you really wanted it. HDCP 2.2 is already cracked. It does nothing but cause problems.

I want to buy a 4K player and movies now and downscale them until I buy a 4K receiver and projector in a few years but I can't until I know for certain if the UHD players will downscale all the 4K discs to 1080 and play through my equipment without issue.

If it doesn't, I can buy a HDFury Integral to strip HDCP 2.2, but it's totally bogus that it's even necessary.

Bogus? I wouldn't bother buying it now just to play on 1080p gear anyway (hell, I'm VERY reticent to buy it to use on a non-HDR/WCG 4K set, never mind 1080p) and spending even more money just to get it to work on 1080p gear seems like madness to me.

If you wait until you actually get a 4K display then the playback hardware will be much cheaper (and fully spec'd re: Dolby Vision) anyway, and you can still buy the media if you want to start stockpiling UHD discs and just play the regular disc in the meantime. Don't worry about keeping up with the Joneses, as soon as you do the stuff's out of date anyway.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Ultimately its a matter of personal preference. The 3D version will have a much better sense of depth and spacing between objects. The Ultra HD version will have better contrast, color, and resolution. Whichever is more important to you

Its worth noting that with the exception of The Amazing Spider-Man 2 all Ultra HD Blu-Rays that also have a Blu-Ray 3D version are from 2k masters. Meaning the improvement comes little from extra resolution and more from high dynamic range and deeper color. I am of the personal opinion that high dynamic range and deeper color alone are not worth giving up 3D over but that again is just my preference

I think high quality UHD video with appropriate HDR grading is much more impressive and has more "pop" than fake looking 3D.

Even good stereoscopic cinematography is still unlike how humans see in real life and I always find it distracting.

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Bogus? I wouldn't bother buying it now just to play on 1080p gear anyway (hell, I'm VERY reticent to buy it to use on a non-HDR/WCG 4K set, never mind 1080p) and spending even more money just to get it to work on 1080p gear seems like madness to me.

If you wait until you actually get a 4K display then the playback hardware will be much cheaper (and fully spec'd re: Dolby Vision) anyway, and you can still buy the media if you want to start stockpiling UHD discs and just play the regular disc in the meantime. Don't worry about keeping up with the Joneses, as soon as you do the stuff's out of date anyway.

Yes, but if I do that, each 4K Blu-ray purchase will be double the cost (as I want to immediately sell off my regular Blu-ray disc to recoup costs if I can make 4K work).

As it stands, it looks like my cost will be $800 for gear if I want to go UHD today and downscale: UHD Player ($400) -> HDFury Integral ($200) -> Darbee ($200) -> Projector.

I dunno, I guess the only thing I'm buying that I didn't really expect to is the HDFury, but if I wait it then I won't be getting any 4K titles for 2-3 years and then I'll probably go on a mad spree to rebuy a lot of titles (probably not all though) and that may very well exceed any hardware premium I spend today. A few years ago, when Best Buy did the upgrade and save promotion (DVD Trade-in) and Blu-rays hit $5, I bought almost 50 in one week. I didn't really start buying Blu's until 2011, I guess...

Recouping ~$13 per movie by selling the regular disc adds up...I bought (and kept) 38 movies last year. 8 were James Bond collection sets, 9 were 3D. So probably realistically average 24 movies a year would be a good guess. That's $300+ per year (on the low side) I'd be spending extra if I just keep the 1080 disc. Basically, free equipment after 36 months....and I'd get all those crispy slipcovers.

[MartinScorsesefan]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Bogus? I wouldn't bother buying it now just to play on 1080p gear anyway (hell, I'm VERY reticent to buy it to use on a non-HDR/WCG 4K set, never mind 1080p) and spending even more money just to get it to work on 1080p gear seems like madness to me.

If you wait until you actually get a 4K display then the playback hardware will be much cheaper (and fully spec'd re: Dolby Vision) anyway, and you can still buy the media if you want to start stockpiling UHD discs and just play the regular disc in the meantime. Don't worry about keeping up with the Joneses, as soon as you do the stuff's out of date anyway.

I want it ASAP because I just know that a movie will be released remastered in UHD like LAWRENCE or BEN HUR that will look better even if downconverted to 1080p, and they won't release the remaster for regular BD. Otherwise I agree with what you're saying.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MartinScorsesefan

I want it ASAP because I just know that a movie will be released remastered in UHD like LAWRENCE or BEN HUR that will look better even if downconverted to 1080p, and they won't release the remaster for regular BD. Otherwise I agree with what you're saying.

I'm kinda wrestling with that myself, what with having a 4K but non-WCG/HDR TV: large format stuff will still look the bollocks because that's where added spatial resolution alone still makes a difference.

I said it in one of these threads already, that if Lawrence, Ben Hur, MFL, Spartacus, Vertigo, Hateful 8, Nolan's movies with IMAX etc were available on UHD Blu from the start then I'd have no hesitation about jumping in, but them launch slates? Mucho meh. I'm perfectly happy to wait.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

If you wait until you actually get a 4K display then the playback hardware will be much cheaper (and fully spec'd re: Dolby Vision) anyway, and you can still buy the media if you want to start stockpiling UHD discs and just play the regular disc in the meantime. Don't worry about keeping up with the Joneses, as soon as you do the stuff's out of date anyway.

Yeah, since everything seems to be getting a combo-pack it removes the need to upgrade before your TV is ready. Also second-gen players will be much better anyway, assuming the format lasts.

[eriaur]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

in order to get the full potential out of HDR, even if at the current time the studio or filmmaker doesn’t plan on an HDR version from the get-go, cinematographers should strive to shoot a ‘thick negative’ (a wide range negative) shoot in RAW and from there go thru a high quality workflow (i.e. openEXR with 16bit float) and as a finishing format rather than being diluted to a lesser quality file format (to save on costs). That way the footage can be re-purposed for the best HDR months/years from now when the HDR iteration is decided to be released.

12 Bit and 16 Bit

2015 camera comparison chart - Hollywood Post Alliance

minimum 12 Bit source for Dolby Vision?

[spectre08]

when am I going to be able to get a 28" 4K computer monitor with HDR, rec.2020, and 12-bit color?

That's what I wanna know.

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by spectre08

when am I going to be able to get a 28" 4K computer monitor with HDR, rec.2020, and 12-bit color?

That's what I wanna know.

ditto

[K i r a]

Originally Posted by spectre08

when am I going to be able to get a 28" 4K computer monitor with HDR, rec.2020, and 12-bit color?

That's what I wanna know.

Hopefully not too far away. Dell just announced at CES a 30" 4K OLED monitor that I believe handles 97% DCIP3.

Probably pushing it, but I'd wait for one that has those specs, and is a 100Hz Gsync display so I can use for both gaming and movies well.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by K i r a

Hopefully not too far away. Dell just announced at CES a 30" 4K OLED monitor that I believe handles 97% DCIP3.

Probably pushing it, but I'd wait for one that has those specs, and is a 100Hz Gsync display so I can use for both gaming and movies well.

yeah, the Dell on costs $5k though.

It's crazy how far being tvs the computer monitors are right now.

[eriaur]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/n...d-4k/78420960/

Technicolor has been remastering The Godfather Part II and Apocalypse Now

Approved by Coppola:

http://www.technicolor.com/en/who-we...-and-hdr-video
http://www.technicolor.com/en/who-we...es-technicolor

Mark Henninger's impressions of Technicolor HDR Solutions at CES:

Technicolor HDR Solutions at CES 2016

Technicolor is a company with over one hundred years' worth of experience in bringing entertainment to screens. At CES 2016, its commitment to staying at the forefront of the technology required to advance the art of telling stories with moving images was readily apparent.

There was plenty of HDR-related news coming from the company that made The Wizard of Oz possible. The company announced a SoC (system-on-chip) solution for deploying its ITM (Intelligent Tone Management) technology. This makes it possible for TV and set-top box SoC manufacturers to include Technicolor's HDR tech in their offerings. Companies incorporating ITM include Marvell, MSTAR, Sigma and STMicroelectronics.

At CES, it was clear that the race is on to find simple solutions for delivering HDR (high-dynamic-range) content to consumers. In order to compete effectively in this environment, Technicolor announced a collaboration with Royal Philips that merges the two companies' roadmaps for providing HDR-related solutions. The combined roadmap covers content creation tools, encoding and decoding software, as well as support for implementing those solutions.

The goal of the joint effort is to accelerate the spread of HDR content and devices, while ensuring full backwards compatibility with SDR displays. According to the joint press release, the purpose is to "simplify HDR deployments for distributors who will be able to send one signal to all of their customers, regardless of which TV they have."

In Technicolor's suite, I witnessed how the company's technology improves the look of SDR (standard-dynamic-range) content using ITM to enhance SDR content when it's played on HDR-capable displays—the additional pop the process added to video greatly improved the perceived depth and clarity of the imagery.


Technicolor's technology enhances SDR content for display on HDR TVs.

Accomplishing this technological feat is not a simple task, it requires lots of R&D. However, it is quite clear that HDR has gained traction in 2016; every major TV manufacturer now has an array of HDR-compatible products that are either already available or which will ship within the year. Jako Eleveld—Head of IP Licensing for Philips—stated that "This move is a reflection of how fast the market for HDR is developing, and how important it is to partner and scale up to effectively serve industry demand for high-quality video delivery."

One of the coolest things I saw during my time in the Technicolor suite were HDR-graded clips from three Francis Ford Coppola movies: The Cotton Club, Apocalypse Now, and The Godfather. Because film exceeds the dynamic range of SDR displays, it's possible to create HDR content with it. Because film has a considerably wider color gamut than the Blu-ray standard, BT.709, the expanded color palette was clearly visible in the HDR-graded Coppola content. Furthermore, the clips were displayed on LG's new G6 Signature flat OLED, which is one of the most gorgeous TV—in terms of a picture quality and—that I have ever laid eyes upon.

The combination of HDR, rich cinematic color, 4K resolution, and the picture quality produced by LG's newest OLED did justice to Coppola's classics. Yes, you can see the film grain--that's part of the point. With HDR and expanded color gamut, you can truly show what was captured on film. Based on what I saw at Technicolor's demo, HDR will offer the perfect excuse to revisit my favorite films at some point in the future. Thanks to Technicolor and the HDR-related technology it's bringing to the table along with Philips, the future looks to be brighter and more colorful than ever.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...es-2016-a.html

[eriaur]

Multiple 4K HDR Options Begin To Emerge
http://hdguru.com/multiple-4k-hdr-op...gin-to-emerge/

[Geoff D]

Hmmm. I still wonder how many of these "amazing" HDR write ups are down to the OLED displays that they keep getting demo'd on (same with that Panasonic player at trusted reviews) and as for SDR to HDR conversion at the user end? Ugh. I knew it was bound to come along (see also: 2D to 3D conversion in the TV) but still...ugh.

[eriaur]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Hmmm. I still wonder how many of these "amazing" HDR write ups are down to the OLED displays that they keep getting demo'd on (same with that Panasonic player at trusted reviews) and as for SDR to HDR conversion at the user end? Ugh. I knew it was bound to come along (see also: 2D to 3D conversion in the TV) but still...ugh.

"combination of HDR, rich cinematic color, 4K resolution, and OLED."

This Fox HDR demo (HTF) used Samsung LCD.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Hmmm. I still wonder how many of these "amazing" HDR write ups are down to the OLED displays.

Right and that's what I am wondering too. Few people have OLED televisions which produce a superior contrast than any other no matter what source you are playing on it. How much of the positive press high dynamic range is getting is more due to the superior capabilities of OLED televisions rather than a high dynamic range source?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by eriaur

"combination of HDR, rich cinematic color, 4K resolution, and OLED."

Oh, they can write what they like but given how a properly set up OLED knocking out SDR 709 graded stuff leaves most people staring slack-jawed with amazement, I still gots to wonder whether the OLED is simply the cherry on top or whether it's doing the lion's share of the wowing in certain of these demos.

This Fox HDR demo (HTF) used Samsung LCD.

Fair enough. Hardly an in depth assessment, but fair enough.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Oh, they can write what they like but given how a properly set up OLED knocking out SDR 709 graded stuff leaves most people staring slack-jawed with amazement, I still gots to wonder whether the OLED is simply the cherry on top or whether it's doing the lion's share of the wowing in certain of these demos.


Fair enough. Hardly an in depth assessment, but fair enough.

Shame OLED colours are not correct in quite a few ways, but they do the wow thing quite well.