Lawrence of Arabia 4K UHD (1962)

[jh901]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

HDR = revisionism

this release doesn't need a new color grade IMO.

Sarcasm?

If not, hey, how about an open mind?

You are wrong and for some reason nearly no one can admit that on the internet. Be the first.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by jh901

Sarcasm?

If not, hey, how about an open mind?

You are wrong and for some reason nearly no one can admit that on the internet. Be the first.

okay, in all fairness it was a snarky tongue in cheek remark and I was actually thinking more along the lines of Dolby Vision, which can take on a new color palette and such, and has been accused of 'revisionism' from some critics on older catalog titles.

but this movie in particular is already 70mm, what and how can HDR be applied when a ton of work was done previously in the 8K/4K restoration phase, Sony has proven they can do wonders on their UHD encode/transfers - so yes, I'm curious, and a bit nervous how a HDR grade can improve an already impressive and noted restoration.

[Vangeli]

I just watched the 4K SDR stream of Zorro and immediately noticed specular highlights and primary colors that could’ve greatly benefited from HDR + WCG, so having both would be welcome.

[tama]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

okay, in all fairness it was a snarky tongue in cheek remark and I was actually thinking more along the lines of Dolby Vision, which can take on a new color palette and such, and has been accused of 'revisionism' from some critics on older catalog titles.

but this movie in particular is already 70mm, what and how can HDR be applied when a ton of work was done previously in the 8K/4K restoration phase, Sony has proven they can do wonders on their UHD encode/transfers - so yes, I'm curious, and a bit nervous how a HDR grade can improve an already impressive and noted restoration.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by tama

... what ... ?


so Sony should just for the hell of it and 4K TV sake, supercede what Robert A. Harris did for the 4K DCP's - that's just stupid f**ked up logic. Undermining a prior restoration that already produced a stellar product is more of an appropriate 'facepalm' reaction than my comment.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

Dolby Vision, which can take on a new color palette and such

Only when it's encoded incorrectly... but the same can be said of any format.

Originally Posted by Dubstar

but this movie in particular is already 70mm, what and how can HDR be applied when a ton of work was done previously in the 8K/4K restoration phase, Sony has proven they can do wonders on their UHD encode/transfers - so yes, I'm curious, and a bit nervous how a HDR grade can improve an already impressive and noted restoration.

In the same ways that it can with 35mm or any other taking medium. There's more latitude (dynamic range) available in the film original than can be expressed in the rec709 (SDR) color gamut. UHD opens up that space to represent what's on the film with greater fidelity.

Where the "revisionism" question tends to come in is in the definition of just what that original film is: is it a work that exceeds the capabilities of the commercial playback mediums of its day (and shouldn't have to be held to them)? Or is it a work that was designed with the limitations of those playback mediums in mind (and should be replicated as closely as possible to how it was)? It's not too dissimilar to the eternal grain debate regarding shortcomings/artifacts of the medium and our philosophies toward second-guessing them.

Regardless, it's perfectly possible to use the "big bucket" of HDR to create greater fidelity to the theatrical experience than the "small bucket" of SDR will allow. The only question is whether they'll only do that or do... more.

[crackedknee]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

but this movie in particular is already 70mm, what and how can HDR be applied when a ton of work was done previously in the 8K/4K restoration phase, Sony has proven they can do wonders on their UHD encode/transfers - so yes, I'm curious, and a bit nervous how a HDR grade can improve an already impressive and noted restoration.

HDR (even DV?) is not about injecting colors, but capturing more colors from the print/image, then rendering those colors (in numbers beyond what the human eye can see, so yes much better than SDR, because it's covering more than just the base need). In conjunction with UHD then becomes about better pixel display (gradient is hugely improved through combo of greater definition and much greater color palette).

A short article with a basic description of HDR:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...hat-is-hdr-tv/

I'm sure more technically detailed articles might be found on other sites.

[jh901]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

but this movie in particular is already 70mm, what and how can HDR be applied when a ton of work was done previously in the 8K/4K restoration phase, Sony has proven they can do wonders on their UHD encode/transfers - so yes, I'm curious, and a bit nervous how a HDR grade can improve an already impressive and noted restoration.

Can you at least accept that your impression was wrong and that now you understand that, generally speaking, HDR process will be used to deliver to us more of what's captured on film? For once, it would be nice to find one human being with an account here express satisfaction that they learned something.

[jasonmiles2014]

Originally Posted by jh901

Can you at least accept that your impression was wrong and that now you understand that, generally speaking, HDR process will be used to deliver to us more of what's captured on film? For once, it would be nice to find one human being with an account here express satisfaction that they learned something.

I'm fairly new to this side of the forums, and I will volunteer to express satisfaction that I learn something new by the minute reading these threads. You guys are a great source of knowledge.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by jh901

Can you at least accept that your impression was wrong and that now you understand that, generally speaking, HDR process will be used to deliver to us more of what's captured on film? For once, it would be nice to find one human being with an account here express satisfaction that they learned something.

hmm ... (long pause) ... [walks out]

[bluescholar]

Quick lock the door!

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by crackedknee

HDR (even DV?) is not about injecting colors, but capturing more colors from the print/image, then rendering those colors (in numbers beyond what the human eye can see, so yes much better than SDR, because it's covering more than just the base need). In conjunction with UHD then becomes about better pixel display (gradient is hugely improved through combo of greater definition and much greater color palette).

A short article with a basic description of HDR:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...hat-is-hdr-tv/

I'm sure more technically detailed article might be found on other sites.

HDR is about expanded dynamic range

wide gamut gives you primaries that are more intensely saturated and you can get more intense colors and get more saturation into very bright tones

you can use wide gamut with SDR

you can use standard gamut with HDR

you can use wide gamut and HDR

[crackedknee]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

HDR is about expanded dynamic range

wide gamut gives you primaries that are more intensely saturated and you can get more intense colors and get more saturation into very bright tones

you can use wide gamut with SDR

you can use standard gamut with HDR

you can use wide gamut and HDR

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/what-is-...lor-gamut-wcg/

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by crackedknee

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/what-is-...lor-gamut-wcg/

real world examples where wide color gamut tends to make a noticeable difference:
sunsets/sunrises

bright neon clothing/intensely saturated clothing (like say some traditional Masai Mara clothing, not neon by any means, but deeply saturated reds/blues or intense red dresses and such)

fall foliage

things like rubies, emeralds

really brightly colored sports cars

many flowers

tropical waters or any of the ones that get really intense turquoise/green type shades

scenes lit by intensely golden evening sun

certain intensely colored birds

[crackedknee]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

real world examples where wide color gamut tends to make a noticeable difference:
sunsets/sunrises

A specific example would be the beginning of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, sunrise as the camera pans down from the sun and across the town. Compare HD (SDR, good detail but sun is more of a blob) to UHD (HDR, sun is bright but obviously round with an edge). Plus the subsequent shots of the town from above in that sort of light.

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by crackedknee

A specific example would be the beginning of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, sunrise as the camera pans down from the sun and across the town. Compare HD (SDR, good detail but sun is more of a blob) to UHD (HDR, sun is bright but obviously round with an edge). Plus the subsequent shots of the town from above in that sort of light.

I was referring to wide gamut color, so thinking more about the depth of saturation, but yeah the expanded dynamic range can be very useful for such things as well.

[Vangeli]

Wow.

Just watched the 4K SDR stream on Apple TV and it’s amazing. The DETAIL, the color, everything, just gorgeous. This is the first I’ve seen iTunes 4K struggle so much; it’s not difficult to see why Sony has been holding off on the UHD Blu-ray.

[HDMan72]

Originally Posted by Vangeli

Wow.

Just watched the 4K SDR stream on Apple TV and it’s amazing. The DETAIL, the color, everything, just gorgeous. This is the first I’ve seen iTunes 4K struggle so much; it’s not difficult to see why Sony has been holding off on the UHD Blu-ray.

I've been thinking of pulling the trigger and buying this even though I own the blu-ray box set. Your like the fifth person who said the 4K SDR stream looks beautiful.

[Gillietalls]

Originally Posted by Vangeli

Wow.

Just watched the 4K SDR stream on Apple TV and it’s amazing. The DETAIL, the color, everything, just gorgeous. This is the first I’ve seen iTunes 4K struggle so much; it’s not difficult to see why Sony has been holding off on the UHD Blu-ray.

Been thinking about pulling the trigger as well. What do you mean, "seen iTunes 4K struggle"?

[Vangeli]

Originally Posted by Gillietalls

Been thinking about pulling the trigger as well. What do you mean, "seen iTunes 4K struggle"?

Usually iTunes 4K streams hold it together very well but this has so much detail and grain that there were frequent noticeable compression artifacts.