Black Panther 4K UHD (2018)

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

I thought the 'magic' of movie-making was just that: being able to see and explore remote places without ever really setting foot in those remote places

I didn't say I wanted to go to Africa, I said I wanted them to.

[bbeck]

Sometimes when my kids watch Netflix shows mixed for 5.1 through the TV speakers they have to crank up the volume into the 30-40s to hear the dialogue properly. Because I'm concerned about blowing out the equipment with another, more "normal" sounding show later, I will purposely select the English stereo track for those shows, so we can get the volume back into the regular 11-16 range we're used to.

Not sure if you had the Atmos track selected for playback, but it's possible the equipment-driven mixdown to stereo presented the same issue for you.

[gates70]

Originally Posted by HBAngel

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but there was talk in The Last Jedi thread (pg 133) that part of the audio problem may be a flag on the disc that enables the dynamic range compression function. Going into Surround Parameters and toggling this setting from Auto to Off has been cited as a partial solution. I tried this on Last Jedi and it seemed to help. Not sure if it works the same with Black Panther.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post14884079

My settings have never been on Auto and it still doesn't sound right.

[aetherhole]

A few people keep bringing up crushed blacks. Are you using calibrated sets? I find it strange because there are instances where it is very dark, as they should be because that's some of those scenes were in the Dolby Cinema as well, but I'm not seeing crushed blacks. I have no problem seeing detail in those scenes.

I've watched sequences in both DV and HDR10 and didn't exhibit any for either format (DV raised/floating black bars notwithstanding).

My set was ISF calibrated, including DV grayscale (limited), so maybe that has something to do with it. Also, I am using HDR10 Standard and DV Dark settings.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by aetherhole

A few people keep bringing up crushed blacks. Are you using calibrated sets? I find it strange because there are instances where it is very dark, as they should be because that's some of those scenes were in the Dolby Cinema as well, but I'm not seeing crushed blacks. I have no problem seeing detail in those scenes.

I've watched sequences in both DV and HDR10 and didn't exhibit any for either format (DV raised/floating black bars notwithstanding).

My set was ISF calibrated, including DV grayscale (limited), so maybe that has something to do with it. Also, I am using HDR10 Standard and DV Dark settings.

Maybe you are less sensitive to it, I doubt that it is due to calibration. It's in the source. Standard bluray is proof of that.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I didn't say I wanted to go to Africa, I said I wanted them to.

So if the movie was about Mars you would expect the crew and director to go to Mars? It's called 'movie magic' for a reason. You can recreate entire worlds within a warehouse.

[The Duke]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I didn't say I wanted to go to Africa, I said I wanted them to.

Reminds me of the book by Katharine Hepburn: The Making of the African Queen: Or How I Went to Africa With Bogart, Bacall and Huston and Almost Lost My Mind

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I was extremely disappointed with this disc in all aspects.

[Show spoiler]For video I thought it was a sloppy mess. The movie looks way too CGI-y for most of its run-time; specifically it has that Hobbit feel where they built a tiny fraction of a set (like the waterfall pool) and then surrounded it with green and called it a day. I hate that look. I also thought it looked soft overall, and the UHD specifically often looks too dark and dim for my taste. The colors are AMAZING though, agreed with the reviews on that, but everything else had me shrugging my shoulders. Reminded me of the last Tarzan movie, a movie all about Africa where they seemingly never f**king went to Africa for anything but aerial shots and filmed the rest on greenscreen sets in a warehouse.

The audio was TOTALLY FLAT. I use good quality headphones so take my opinion for what it is, but I thought discs like Thor 3's were a little lacking and Black Panther was SUPER LACKING. My wife was watching with me using the TV speakers and she turned them to 100, I kid you not. I don't think those speakers have been above 55 before. Also I loved the end credits song so much I bought the MP3 later last night and when listening to that on the same headphones via my PC the difference was MASSIVE. Totally borked audio here.

Lastly I thought the movie was only okay. Perhaps because I didn't like the look of it as much as others, and also thought too much of the CGI action was meh, but it just didn't grab me like so many others. I did love the themes and African designs, that was cool stuff, but the actual direction and movie itself... eh, it'd be pretty low on my Marvel ranking as of this first watch. We'll see how further watches improve it though.

The quantity of the CGI would be fine if the CGI was actually halfway decent. Seems like the entire VFX budget went towards the Black Panther suit/CG double. But I didn't notice any crush, I'm not sure why people are seeing that. My setup is usually very sensitive to crush because it's low-nit, but I thought this one was fine. And yeah, Disney's patented Crapmos mix strike again, but Ragnarok is still the worst offender IMO.

[KcMsterpce]

Originally Posted by aetherhole

A few people keep bringing up crushed blacks. Are you using calibrated sets? ... I'm not seeing crushed blacks.

Oh yeah, I did. For example, the moment when

[Show spoiler]Killmonger TOTALLY crushed T'Challa in that waterfall battle

.
My god!

On a more serious note: I think this disc is beautiful, and the presentation never felt to me like it was too dark or swallowed by low illumination.

[bbeck]

I watched the entire opening scene from The Avengers and then switched over to Black Panther for its first 25 minutes. A few things I noticed:

• Dialogue from both movies sounded about level with each other. I didn't need to make any volume adjustments.
• Music in Black Panther is very well presented, with good bass content.
• Sound effects seem quite compressed/buried in the mix. Engine noises, a jeep crash, and gunfire in the jungle opening completely lacked authority. Likewise in the early scene where T'Challa's ship approaches Wakanda, no LFE from the ship at all. The mix favors the music. (I don't know if this is a sound design decision to make the ship sound more stealthy; in the "challenge" scene at the waterfall a few minutes later, when T'Challa exits the ship there is a bit more bass present.)
• When M'Baku confronts T'Challa, there is a nice deep rumble that I thought could be the waterfall behind them, but it faded out when the two prepared for combat. It was a nice detail that underscored the threat M'Baku presented.

What I'm hearing so far isn't evidence of an across-the-board dynamic range limitation, but rather a music-first mix and a number of strange and inconsistent sound editing decisions. The movie doesn't sound like what we think it should sound like during certain action-heavy moments, and that is frustrating. I still don't think this is Disney's fault (though I think the supposedly lower master volume is driven by someone at Disney), but rather people at Marvel who worked on the movie itself.

(BTW, The Avengers sounded fantastic on all levels.)

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by aetherhole

A few people keep bringing up crushed blacks. Are you using calibrated sets? I find it strange because there are instances where it is very dark, as they should be because that's some of those scenes were in the Dolby Cinema as well, but I'm not seeing crushed blacks. I have no problem seeing detail in those scenes.

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

The quantity of the CGI would be fine if the CGI was actually halfway decent. Seems like the entire VFX budget went towards the Black Panther suit/CG double. But I didn't notice any crush, I'm not sure why people are seeing that. My setup is usually very sensitive to crush because it's low-nit, but I thought this one was fine. And yeah, Disney's patented Crapmos mix strike again, but Ragnarok is still the worst offender IMO.

For the record when I said "dark" I didn't mean crush. Crush was not a problem for me. The opening jungle battle does have some more detail on the BD I think, here and there, but it also looks blown out and flat in order to get that detail, so blah. I think HDR is allowing them to show detail within darkness in a way some people's sets can't resolve. Reminds me of Arrival and Zero Dark Thirty complaints.

What I meant by dark was that the BD overall looks more bright and vibrant while the UHD looks more reserved. I was surprised on the UHD that scenes in bright, open African sunlight weren't more punchy.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by The Duke

Reminds me of the book by Katharine Hepburn: The Making of the African Queen: Or How I Went to Africa With Bogart, Bacall and Huston and Almost Lost My Mind

Black Panther, Nakia, Okoye, and Zuri are also NOT played by African actors...you heard it here first

[imsounoriginal]

Is this the first Disney UHD that comes with the note at the beginning to watch this on a TV/player with Dolby Vision? Never noticed that before this one.

[guachi]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

So if the movie was about Mars you would expect the crew and director to go to Mars? It's called 'movie magic' for a reason. You can recreate entire worlds within a warehouse.

Mars isn't a place you can go to. Africa is. Africa on screen - actual Africa - would look amazing. Any nature program can show you that.

I was greatly disappointed in the not-special effects of Black Panther. The movie cast $100+ million to make. Where did all the money go? How much would it have cost to actually go to Africa and film on location?

[imsounoriginal]

The money goes towards the VFX, they're just on such a tight schedule that there isn't enough time to massage the VFX til they look as good as they should. The release date is all, and all is the release date.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by guachi

Mars isn't a place you can go to. Africa is. Africa on screen - actual Africa - would look amazing. Any nature program can show you that.

I was gretly disappointed in the not-special effects of Black Panther. The movie cast $100+ million to make. Where did all the money go? How much would it have cost to actually go to Africa and film on location?

But this movie is about a 'mythological' place in Africa, not a real place in Africa...Big difference

[aetherhole]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Maybe you are less sensitive to it, I doubt that it is due to calibration. It's in the source. Standard bluray is proof of that.

I'm definitely sensitive enough to see it when it comes up.

Your watching on a 2016 OLED, right? Because it's widely known the 2016 OLEDs, especially, tend to crush blacks without adjustment. Proper calibration would have to be done to SDR and HDR in order to alleviate that issue and transition out of black to near-black.

Are you watching the HDR/DV and Standard blu-ray on the same set? Because if you are, then your set is going to exhibit the same characteristics in this difficult transition, regardless of source. So yes, calibration would still be relevant as to why you are experiencing black crush.

[IXOYE1989]

Originally Posted by Sithlord75

It started with the Avengers Age Of Ultron. I watched it again recently in 3D & had to crank the volume right up, plus it is seriously lacking for a big summer blockbuster.

Everything from then onwards to be honest has sounded a bit poor to my ears, all 3 disney released Star Wars' are not a patch on any of the 6 from the saga boxset. Really is getting a joke as their previous titles sounded great, especially Pixars stuff.

Wow, that's a good 2.5 years of releases with audio issues I guess even other Disney titles like The Good Dinosaur, Zootopia, Finding Dory, Moana, Cars 3, and Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales were all similarly affected?

[VonMagnum]

Originally Posted by jh901

Yamaha receiver.

I'll wager a great deal that Cary+NAD will sound so different than what you imagine. Not even close. It's a shame that you have it all figured out. All those years of doing it wrong.

The PSBs don't need anymore power and they're +/-1dB frequency response. For someone that thinks he knows something, you sure do assume a lot. My 2-channel music system has two power amps driving 48" dipole ribbons with dual 10" subs and a custom made active crossover. One amp is 150 watts Class A into 4 ohms each channel (ribbons) and the other is 350 watts per channel driving the subs. The preamp is a fully analog one with remote control motor driven volume control. The DAC is a 192kHz/24-bit capable unit. I've had this system (sans newer DAC) since 1996. The ribbons were used in $50k a pair Genesis II speakers. I won't go into my turntable setup here.

By your hardware driven fantasy measures, you'd probably cream yourself listening to this system. But it's not the specs, it's what's needed to drive these speakers to 115dB peaks cleanly. The PSB's are vastly more efficient and roll off at 80Hz to the sub. An external amp would be a pointless waste of money as it's never overdriven to begin with and can already do 115dB from 20Hz to 22kHz in that room. Yes, the dipole ribbons are lovely with music. They won't work in a home theater as they're 6 feet tall and no center will match. The ribbons are no longer made either. Hence, these are in my music room along with my Roland piano. But if your amp is changing the sound, it's not doing its job. As I said, I'm an electronic engineer, not an audiophool.

But it's too bad I've been doing it wrong all these years.... Sayonara kusogake.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by aetherhole

I'm definitely sensitive enough to see it when it comes up.

Your watching on a 2016 OLED, right? Because it's widely known the 2016 OLEDs, especially, tend to crush blacks without adjustment. Proper calibration would have to be done to SDR and HDR in order to alleviate that issue and transition out of black to near-black.

Are you watching the HDR/DV and Standard blu-ray on the same set? Because if you are, then your set is going to exhibit the same characteristics in this difficult transition, regardless of source. So yes, calibration would still be relevant as to why you are experiencing black crush.

Standard bluray SDR is not crushed, it's only when I play the DV/HDR10 disc that heavy crush occurrs