Star Trek TOS: 4:3 format: Good or Bad?

[GregBlu5]

I've probably told this story here before, but I had taped FORBIDDEN PLANET on a Betamax tape from a TV broadcast decades ago. Since it's one of my fave movies of all time, I'd watched it more than once. And I'd always wondered, though, why Morbius's daughter turned against her father so readily, siding with the crew and making herself as equally vulnerable to the "monster" as they.

Then I bought the Laser Disc letterbox copy of the movie and watched it on my Advent 6-foot projection TV, and for the very first time saw that Anne Francis was standing at the edge of the frame in the doorway while Morbius was ranting that he would only share Krell secrets as he saw fit--clearly showing himself to be both wildly arrogant and perhaps a bit unstable.

The TV broadcast that I'd taped and watched several times had cropped her character *out* of that important scene, and had conveniently removed her presence from a significant segment where her mind was made up by her father's intolerance and arrogance.

(It was nearly as bad as the local TV broadcast of CITIZEN KANE that had ended early and removed the sequence where the audience learns who, or what, Rosebud is. Needless to say, their telephones rang incessantly after that truncated broadcast.)

I echo what was said earlier: No cropping [or cutting]; no way, no how.

[Daredevil666]

There's a big misunderstanding from the internet fans when it comes to TV shows framing, the most offensive argument I always see put forth is "CROPPED ! NO CROPPING !".

Here's what one has to realise : those TV shows were never shot with the intent of the whole frame being exposed. They were shot with the knowledge that then current TV sets would reframe the image with overscans going as far as 20% of the image.

What we were meant to see by the filmmakers was a 1.33 image zoomboxed inside the original 1.37:1 frame. Today, this intent really doesn't gel with current TV screens and people watching habits. And zoomboxing should be avoided at all costs.

So here's a few points :

1/ 1.33 versions of TV shows on HD are no good, as they should be in 1.37, exposing the whole frame, (assuming what you want to see is the whole exposed frame).

2/ Assuming you are watching a scan of the total 1.37 frame, you are seeing more often than not, information top and bottom that was previously hidden and never expected to be seen by the filmmakers (mikes stands, cameramen feets etc)

3/ The left and right sides are spared by unwanted elements cropping in, more often than not.

4/ A better alternative than the 1.37 version (which gives to much overhead above heads) can be 1.44, like the recent WILD WILD WEST season 2, or 14/9 aka 1.55, which BBC now use to reframe original 4/3 shows, something they decided on after much research and viewers poll. It's also more "filmlike", because apart from offering more left / right information, the compositions are not ruined by placing viewers to far away from the subjects in the frame with too much air above heads.
To do this however, you should not crop old 1.33 masters (which were all zoomboxed anyway). You should remaster, using the total left right information, and adjust for 1.44 or 1.55. Usually, this gives the same top and bottom information as old masters, and more left and right.

So what I think is 1.33 is zoomboxing, so should never, ever be on Blu-Ray for shows, 1.37 is a bit more acceptable, but nonetheless not the best as it gives too much picture information, 1.44 should be the norm, or 1.55 depending on how the show was shot.

Alternatively, some compagnies might try to reframe at 1.66 or 1.77, it can work (V the mini series), or not (Thunderbirds), it's all about at which size the compositions look the best.

But certainly at 1.44, the Wild Wild West is not "cropped". No one noticed... and it looks good on my plasma screen.

[Trekker4Life]

Well, you're really limited on what you can do with 1960's technology. I find watching 4.3 aspect ratio shows not much different from movies where there's black bars at the top and bottom. Star Trek will just have them on the left and right of the screen. Almost the same amount of real estate.

[matthewrounds]

I'd like the option of borders like those in Pinocchio whenever the OAR of 1.33 or 1.37 is used.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by matthewrounds

I'd like the option of borders like those in Pinocchio whenever the OAR of 1.33 or 1.37 is used.

That's fine....... I watched Pinocchio with the side-bars on, and with it off.... I don't think it created a better viewing experience with them on though......

I would like to get some curtains for side-masking on my screen, but not sure how I'd do it since my screen is hanging from an angled wall/ceiling in addition to the fact that I don't want to block my speakers. I can zoom enough with the projector to fill most of the screen without cutting off the top or bottom,(on window boxed movies.... like Robocop Criterion DVD) but prefer not to adjust the projector

[Gone2HiDef]

Originally Posted by matthewrounds

I'd like the option of borders like those in Pinocchio whenever the OAR of 1.33 or 1.37 is used.

I was pleasantly surprised by those borders. They were well thought out and shaded complementary to the scenes they framed. Kudos to Disney and the folks who thunk that up!

I actually was gonna mention this example in my earlier post. But thinking it threw I didn't immediately believe Star Trek would necessarily be a good sitation for this use, not unless we want to see 60's style tv controls on the sides or wanted to see our episodes through a viewscreen like we were looking at a dramatized Starfleet library log entry.

[Beta Man]

going off-topic somewhat.... but how about an effect of blood running down the sides (on top/bottom if applicable) for old horror/slasher flicks...... that would be a neat touch I'd think!

If not for the vision of Disney, and what they did with Pinocchio... we wouldn't even consider options like this.

[matthewrounds]

Like I said initially, I want something there that and I can't beleive I'm saying this, "fills in the left and right of the screen". Anything that accents the movie is perfect.

On a side note beta, if I had a projector like you (coming within the year I hope) I would create side curtains for just this reason.

[nycomet]

Originally Posted by matthewrounds

Like I said initially, I want something there that and I can't beleive I'm saying this, "fills in the left and right of the screen". Anything that accents the movie is perfect.

On a side note beta, if I had a projector like you (coming within the year I hope) I would create side curtains for just this reason.

In the old days, movie theaters used massive curtains that opened to reveal the screen behind them just as the projectionist started the movie. Clearly, the curtains would open only as wide as the aspect ratio of the movie on the screen.

In addition, the screen itself has a moveable black border (it is a basically a black screen placed in front of the picture screen) that could be positioned to fit the visible aspect ratio of the movie being projected on the main screen. In essence, this is like the black bars we see on our HD TV screens.

If we watch a movie in complete darkness, the black bars (whether on top and bottom or left and right) will seemingly fade away into the background darkness. If this is still annoying to a viewer, one could possibly hang curtains in front of the LCD screen and open them just wide enough to fit the movie being seen on the HD TV screen, but the curtains would most likely look more ridiculous than leaving it as is.

[P@t_Mtl]

I only want one thing when I buy a movie or a TV show, I want OAR and nothing else.

[Sammy]

Originally Posted by nycomet

In the old days, movie theaters used massive curtains that opened to reveal the screen behind them just as the projectionist started the movie. Clearly, the curtains would open only as wide as the aspect ratio of the movie on the screen.

In addition, the screen itself has a moveable black border (it is a basically a black screen placed in front of the picture screen) that could be positioned to fit the visible aspect ratio of the movie being projected on the main screen. In essence, this is like the black bars we see on our HD TV screens.

If we watch a movie in complete darkness, the black bars (whether on top and bottom or left and right) will seemingly fade away into the background darkness. If this is still annoying to a viewer, one could possibly hang curtains in front of the LCD screen and open them just wide enough to fit the movie being seen on the HD TV screen, but the curtains would most likely look more ridiculous than leaving it as is.

I must be getting old because I remember those "old days".