Lord of the Rings Trilogy (Theatrical Versions) - April 6, 2010

[Stlsports]

When can we expect a review? Hopefully somebody gets a pre-copy.

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

I guess it's you, me, and Joe. Three against the world!

Sign me up

[KilloWertz]

Originally Posted by dborgill

Regardless of the last few pages, we can pretty much guarantee this isn't a knockout release. What should have been FIVE STAR video transfer, it's inconsistent at best which has been confirmed by every impression and reviewer out there so far.

Can we all at least agree upon that point? For me, on Blu-Ray it's about: Movie quality, then video quality, then audio quality. So for me personally, sounds like I'll be disappointed by the Blu-Ray release.

I've been trying to stay out of here until I have seen The Two Towers and The Return of the King to avoid spoilers, but I've become aware of the discussion about the PQ of this trilogy and wanted to voice my opinion on it.

I am amazed it has gotten this far based on the fact that the two reviews out there so far for this have been pretty solid. Bill Hunt's review from The Digital Bits PQ ratings pretty much translate to roughly a 4 to a 4.5 for Fellowship of the Ring and a 4.5 or better for both The Two Towers and The Return of the King. That could still be demo material. Just because it's a major modern trilogy doesn't mean it automatically would be a 5.0 for all three movies for PQ. Most aren't, with some examples being Bourne, X-Men, Spider-Man, The Mummy, etc. All of those look great, but don't have 5.0 PQ across the board and you don't see people complaining like this. Pirates of the Caribbean is probably the closest one to being 5.0 across the trilogy.

Taking a quote from Bill Hunt's review and then one from DVDTown's review... "There's a little tiny bit of DNR applied here and there, as there is on almost every film these days, but I don't find it to be an issue quality-wise." "There are scenes here of ravishing beauty. In fact, I can't imagine any viewer being disappointed by the picture quality except those people who might take exception to the director's intentions." How that means the PQ sucks, I don't know. Oh well. I'll be more than happy to buy these and enjoy them while others are nitpicking that Frodo's nose-hairs aren't clearly visible at all times.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Personally I don't know what they were watching Fellowship on display-wise and I obviously can't argue what they saw through their own eyes, but Fellowship is not a good looking Blu-Ray and is in no way whatsoever "demo material." That's all there really is to it.

I honestly can't fathom how they didn't take note that the transfer on Fellowship was insanely soft, no better (worse in fact) than the broadcast version everyone has been watching for a very long time now, and has noticeable issues with DNR.

And you don't have to worry about spoilers in this thread. I don't think there's been a single one in the last 2 thousand pages.

Expecting a new master to be used is hardly nitpicking, neither is expecting it to look better than an existing HDTV broadcast version.

[42041]

Originally Posted by killowertz

some examples being Bourne, X-Men, Spider-Man, The Mummy, etc.

Those, while obviously commercially successful films, haven't really achieved the kind of "modern classic" status and cultural importance the LOTR series seem to have. That this is the only movie-specific thread stickied in the forum should say something about how eagerly people were awaiting these discs and the lofty expectations attached to them.

My complaint isn't even DNR per se, it's that Fellowship lacks the HD-ness you expect from these sorts of movies. My first reaction upon seeing a brief bootleg clip was that it was fake, I even debated some people who were criticizing the transfer based on it. Turns out, it was very real

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by killowertz

I've been trying to stay out of here until I have seen The Two Towers and The Return of the King to avoid spoilers, but I've become aware of the discussion about the PQ of this trilogy and wanted to voice my opinion on it.

I am amazed it has gotten this far based on the fact that the two reviews out there so far for this have been pretty solid. Bill Hunt's review from The Digital Bits PQ ratings pretty much translate to roughly a 4 to a 4.5 for Fellowship of the Ring and a 4.5 or better for both The Two Towers and The Return of the King. That could still be demo material. Just because it's a major modern trilogy doesn't mean it automatically would be a 5.0 for all three movies for PQ. Most aren't, with some examples being Bourne, X-Men, Spider-Man, The Mummy, etc. All of those look great, but don't have 5.0 PQ across the board and you don't see people complaining like this. Pirates of the Caribbean is probably the closest one to being 5.0 across the trilogy.

Taking a quote from Bill Hunt's review and then one from DVDTown's review... "There's a little tiny bit of DNR applied here and there, as there is on almost every film these days, but I don't find it to be an issue quality-wise." "There are scenes here of ravishing beauty. In fact, I can't imagine any viewer being disappointed by the picture quality except those people who might take exception to the director's intentions." How that means the PQ sucks, I don't know. Oh well. I'll be more than happy to buy these and enjoy them while others are nitpicking that Frodo's nose-hairs aren't clearly visible at all times.

Try this review which is more honest, less political (Bill Hunt has some serious ties in the blu ray world and I think he was being generous with his review honestly) and more down to earth IMO............

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ay-review.html

3/5 for PQ which is VERY fair from everything I have seen

When the blu ray does not even look as good as a HDTV broadcast, it has not been given the proper treatement, period. No way will this release be "demo material".

[KilloWertz]

Originally Posted by 42041

Those, while obviously commercially successful films, haven't really achieved the kind of "modern classic" status and cultural importance the LOTR series seem to have. That this is the only movie-specific thread stickied in the forum should say something about how eagerly people were awaiting these discs and the lofty expectations attached to them.

My complaint isn't even DNR per se, it's that Fellowship lacks the HD-ness you expect from these sorts of movies. My first reaction upon seeing a brief bootleg clip was that it was fake, I even debated some people who were criticizing the transfer based on it. Turns out, it was very real

These are eagerly anticipated, yes, but that doesn't mean they have to look better than the movies I mentioned. They were all still major motion pictures, with all featuring at least a decent amount of CG except for Bourne. It's actually expected that the first movie in a series will look worse since it's the oldest and probably had the smallest budget. Also, saying this is a disappointment just because of Fellowship (not commenting on that movie's PQ way or the other) is dismissing the other two movies and the fact that they look great according to the reviews.

[Underworld54]

Originally Posted by Todd Smith

Try this review which is more honest, less political (Bill Hunt has some serious ties in the blu ray world and I think he was being generous with his review honestly) and more down to earth IMO.......

Come on now, Bill has gone to bat for us against the companies before. He has no problem speaking out against the format when it's called for. In fact, I guarantee he contacts Warner for us and asks them why they didn't give us the best transfer possible.

[KilloWertz]

Originally Posted by Underworld54

Come on now, Bill has gone to bat for us against the companies before. He has no problem speaking out against the format when it's called for. In fact, I guarantee he contacts Warner for us and asks them why they didn't give us the best transfer possible.

Very true. He had no problem stating the facts with Gladiator.

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by Underworld54

Come on now, Bill has gone to bat for us against the companies before. He has no problem speaking out against the format when it's called for. In fact, I guarantee he contacts Warner for us and asks them why they didn't give us the best transfer possible.

Your right about Bill going to bat, but considering this is such a high profile release, and arguably the biggest blu ray release to date, it would not surprise me AT ALL if he was being a bit political/generous considering his position in the blu ray world, and IMO that is exactly what he is doing with his LOTR review. The review I linked just feels much more honest than the other 2 reviews that have surfaced at this point IMO, and is more in line with how most video nuts will see this release

I do hope you are right about him (or somebody in this realm) contacting Warner about why this release got the shaft as far as the transfer. Having said that, it seems plain as day they are going to milk this trilogy for all its worth which is why they are putting out a half assed release first.

One thing is for sure, they are not getting my money with this kind of effort

[captveg]

Personally, I think you guys are insanely picky, to the point of absurdity. Those comparison screengrabs between the HD broadcast and the BD on avsforum look practically identical, save slight color timing difference.

Complaining about such minute "problems" - and I laugh outright in hysterics over calling this transfer a problem - will fall on completely deaf ears at ANY studio. All this does is make the studios less willing to listen when there is a a legitimate issue (Fifth Element, Gangs of New York, Gladiator).

That's all I have to say about the matter. You may now continue with your mental masturbation....

[Todd Smith]

Originally Posted by captveg

Personally, I think you guys are insanely picky, to the point of absurdity. Those comparison screengrabs between the HD broadcast and the BD on avsforum look practically identical, save slight color timing difference.

Complaining about such minute "problems" - and I laugh outright in hysterics over calling this transfer a problem - will fall on completely deaf ears at ANY studio. All this does is make the studios less willing to listen when there is a a legitimate issue (Fifth Element, Gangs of New York, Gladiator).

That's all I have to say about the matter. You may now continue with your mental masturbation....

The HDTV vs blu ray is FAR from identical.............the blu ray should have mopped the floor with the HDTV broadcast or at the very least seen some slight improvement, but the HDTV version is clearly superior in detail

[42041]

Originally Posted by captveg

Those comparison screengrabs between the HD broadcast and the BD on avsforum look practically identical,.

That's the VERY PROBLEM. The HDTV broadcasts never looked very good.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

Wouldn't that be 'silly New Zealanders'?

No he would be laughing at the hysterics in this thread.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins

Alf has hijacked the last two pages. They're poisonous.

I read all of his posts in Alf's voice though, so it's not so bad.

Why not? You've hijacked the entire thread.

[Todd Smith]

For anyone saying these look "identical", you either have eye or monitor issues or both........

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

Anyone see these comparisons? Click on the links, let the pic fully load, and run your cursor over the pic to see how much better a HDTV broadcast with a lower bitrate looks.


http://comparescreenshots.slicx.com/comparison/43821

http://comparescreenshots.slicx.com/comparison/43820

http://comparescreenshots.slicx.com/comparison/43823

http://comparescreenshots.slicx.com/comparison/43824

Watch as Bilbo turns 15 years younger or so and transforms into a wax figure in the first shot

How can you not see a difference in favor of the HDTV???

[Brodo Faggins]

Anyone else thinking of ditching the cases and putting the discs in the DVD EE cases?

[Andes]

Originally Posted by captveg

Personally, I think you guys are insanely picky, to the point of absurdity. Those comparison screengrabs between the HD broadcast and the BD on avsforum look practically identical, save slight color timing difference.

Complaining about such minute "problems" - and I laugh outright in hysterics over calling this transfer a problem - will fall on completely deaf ears at ANY studio. All this does is make the studios less willing to listen when there is a a legitimate issue (Fifth Element, Gangs of New York, Gladiator).

That's all I have to say about the matter. You may now continue with your mental masturbation....

I agree.

[42041]

Originally Posted by killowertz

These are eagerly anticipated, yes, but that doesn't mean they have to look better than the movies I mentioned. They were all still major motion pictures, with all featuring at least a decent amount of CG except for Bourne. It's actually expected that the first movie in a series will look worse since it's the oldest and probably had the smallest budget. Also, saying this is a disappointment just because of Fellowship (not commenting on that movie's PQ way or the other) is dismissing the other two movies and the fact that they look great according to the reviews.

I'm not dismissing them, they just didn't really need work, they've always looked good even on TV, since they were done with a digital intermediate like new movies. Fellowship's post-production wasn't 100% digital, so you can't just put the theatrical master on a tape and send it to the DVD authoring people. By the time it ends up on the disc it's probably many generations removed from the high quality first generation bits. Can this movie look great? I don't know, but they should at least try

[Todd Smith]

Here is the best and most honest review yet.........3/5 PQ


http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ay-review.html


Here is copy and paste of the video review portion.................



Video: 3/5

All three films come to us in VC-1 encoded 1080p video. if you would like more information on the encode please see my second post.

It is no secret that many people, myself included, had high hopes for this release. These films were technically groundbreaking during their theatrical runs and deserve the absolute best transfer possible when going to Blu-Ray.



Now the question you’re all asking – just how good do they look?

Sadly the answer is – so so.

Warner has yet again failed to perform due diligence when it comes to an important Blu-Ray release. While the films do get progressively better as far as PQ is concerned as you progress through the trilogy, they are simply good and rarely great. The Fellowship of the Ring has always looked a little “soft” – even in theaters as some of you may recall, but it never lacked in terms of fine detail. Unfortunately, the Blu-Ray release has been subjected to Digital Noise Reduction (DNR) to the extent that some HDTV recordings actually show better fine detail. It appears to me that rather than starting from a rescan of the source film Warner took their existing HD master and threw it through the DNR cycle on medium before making a few color timing fixes, boosting contrast ever so slightly and throwing it onto a disc in average bitrate VC-1.


I know that many of you are going to be disappointed reading this – and let me assure you that I am even more disappointed writing this. These films deserve better, they deserve to be treated with respect and demand that more time and money be invested to ensure they look their best. Warner has done a great job moving to Blu-Ray as a high def format – but they consistently let us down with their Blu-Ray transfers. Films like this should come to us free of DNR and digital tampering beyond what is absolutely necessary to ensure they are true to Peter Jackson’s vision. So little care was in fact taken that there is actually digital noise present in certain dark scenes (00:24:02 in the Two Towers for example).


If the spiel I wrote in my introduction demonstrates anything, it should be just how important these films are to many of us. If I was to make a list of films that deserve to be fully remastered – these films would be right at the top. When I refer to remastering I do not mean taking the current master, applying a smattering of Digital Noise Reduction (DNR) and slapping it into a moderate bitrate VC-1 encode. I refer to a complete rescan of the original film stock at 4k or better resolution and a re-render for any effects that are dated or low res.

Summary: If you’re a picture quality fanatic this release is not for you. The needless and inconsistent use of DNR has absolutely tarnished what could have been a groundbreaking release.