8K discussion thread

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm the opposite, not that I like to sit on the other side of the room but in that I like having a complete sense of the frame I'm seeing. I'm 7ft from a 65" and that's perfick. Even when I go to the BFI IMAX I sit in the very last row at the back.

I'm the same. Though I can sit 6.5/6.3 from a 65" and take in the full screen.

Cinema, always back row, centre. I don't understand how anyone can sit on those edge rows.

[koberulz]

The problem I find at my local multiplex is the back row in one cinema is the middle row in another - some are one tier of seats, others are two. Sit up the back of a two-tier cinema and you get to be distracted by the light from the projector about a foot above your head the entire time. Just about ruined TFA for me, that one.

[Scottishguy]

Unfortunately we don't have many cinemas to choose from in Scotland. And what is here isn't that great etheir, in my opinion. Another reason why I mostly watch from home.

Geoff. Ever try Cineworlds 4DX? I decided to test it out with Jurrassic World 2. One of the worst novelty experiences I've ever tried. Amateur is to polite a word.
Felt embarrassed after just 10 minutes subjecting myself to it.

[koberulz]

Yeah, I very rarely go. It's difficult to avoid spoilers for the Star Wars films for too long so they're the major exception.

[JohnAV]

10K Is Here! Metra to Debut Fiber HDMI 8K/10K Cables - CEPro

Forget about 8K… are you ready for 10K already? Metra Home Theater Group (MHTG) is showcasing a new series of long-distance ultra-high-speed Velox fiber HDMI cables at CES 2020 that are engineered with an expected bandwidth capability up to 48Gbps for 8K and 10K content. Yes, 10K.

As integrators know, the HDMI Licensing Group has yet to officially release the Compliance Test Certification (CTS) for HDMI version 2.1. So Metra and other manufacturers will confirm their specifications after the CTS for HDMI 2.1 has been released and the cables can be tested and certified.

The EHV-HDG2 Series from Velox will be available in lengths from 10 to 100 meters, or 32.8 to 328 feet and on display at booth 11435 in the Central Hall.

A production sample of this series was first shown at the 2019 CEDIA Expo and given a live bandwidth performance test by DPL Labs at Metra Home Theater Group’s workshop. Now, the final version of this cable will be at CES and is expected to ship soon.

[JohnAV]

No spat at upcoming CES 2020? - Korea Herald

By Shim Woo-hyun Published : Dec 26, 2019 - 17:19

While the market was anticipating another face-off between Samsung Electronics and LG Electronics at the upcoming Consumer Electronics Show 2020, it now seems highly unlikely.

According to industry sources, the Consumer Technology Association, which organizes the world’s largest annual tech event in Las Vegas, has specific terms in the exhibit space contract that prevent companies from giving presentations on products of rival firms, as well as from displaying offensive and inappropriate contents.

Upon violation, the CTA reserves the right to cancel the contract or issue a correction order. It could also endanger future participation, according to the terms.

Such a clause has always been in place for CES participants, according to industry sources.

The two Korean tech giants have been engaging in a war of words over 8K TV products and other electronic products.

Most recently, LG Electronics triggered the tug-of-war during the IFA in Berlin in September by showcasing its 8K TV products alongside those of Samsung, attacking the picture quality of Samsung’s products.

Later, both sides continued to scale up their attacks through commercials, as well as filing suits against each other with the Fair Trade Commission.

Related Samsung and LG Lock Horns Again over 8K TV Certification - Business Korea - 12/26

Samsung Electronics and LG Electronics are having a nerve war over premium 8K TVs ahead of CES, the world's largest trade show that kicks off in Las Vegas of the United States next month. The two companies argued over TV picture quality, but this time they are fighting each other over a certification issue.

Samsung Electronics announced on Dec. 25 that it has obtained an 8K HDMI 2.1 video standard certificate for the first time in the TV industry. The certificate was given by the HDMI Certification Center, which is officially recognized by the HDMI Association responsible for the HDMI standard. The standard, which had already been applied to Samsung's 8K TVs launched in 2019, requires a certified TV to play 120 4K frames and 60 8K frames per second. Samsung Electronics will apply HDMI 2.1 certification to new TV models to be released next year.

When Samsung announced that it has received the 8K TV certificate, LG Electronics said that it has also received the certificate and already applied to all of its 8K TV models.

Samsung Electronics leads the early 8K TV market with an 85 percent market share, according to HIS Markit. In 2020, the company plans to expand 8K TV sales by promoting ultra-premium QLED 8K TVs and 8K TVs loaded with general LCD panels.

[RalphoR]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

10K Is Here! Metra to Debut Fiber HDMI 8K/10K Cables - CEPro

I wonder how much a 10 meter fiber hdmi cable will cost?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

8K Blu? Nope.

If it happens the 8K optical disc format in theory would launch around the year 2026. That is if everyone has not converted to download and streaming by then.

[Geoff D]

That's kinda the point re: streaming. Not that everyone will be doing it by then, disc will still be around, but will the BDA be wanting to put millions into revising the BD format yet again? If they can make quad-layer replication viable - bearing in mind that the QL recordables have literally only just made it to market after being vapourware for the better part of 10 years - then that combined with the next next next gen codec will give 8K disc a shot, but where's the content? They've got away with selling upscales to the public once on UHD disc but 2K to 8K isn't gonna fly, and as the upscaling inside 8K TVs is supposed to be so incredible anyway then what's the point of going to all that trouble on disc anymore? It's the streamers who'll be leading the way with native 8K content and they don't give a crap about putting their stuff onto physical disc.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's kinda the point re: streaming. Not that everyone will be doing it by then, disc will still be around, but will the BDA be wanting to put millions into revising the BD format yet again? If they can make quad-layer replication viable - bearing in mind that the QL recordables have literally only just made it to market after being vapourware for the better part of 10 years - then that combined with the next next next gen codec will give 8K disc a shot, but where's the content? They've got away with selling upscales to the public once on UHD disc but 2K to 8K isn't gonna fly, and as the upscaling inside 8K TVs is supposed to be so incredible anyway then what's the point of going to all that trouble on disc anymore? It's the streamers who'll be leading the way with native 8K content and they don't give a crap about putting their stuff onto physical disc.

Bet we'll be seeing mastered in 8k UHD BD's from Sony.

In all honesty Robert pitching "The Road Ahead for 8K UHD conference" at CES has a difficult job with the current reality, 5G is not a internet solution for most areas in the USA or Canada for example, 8K streaming content still has to contend with ISP data caps for majority of consumers. Upscaling 8K TV's is a only bandaid for the # 1 problem which has to deal with lack of real 8K content.

IMHO 8K content can only come from reality based programming as the legacy upscaling of classic film movies is not a profitable endeavor.

Do we really want to see "Wizard of OZ" in 8k some time in the future? How about "My Fair Lady", or "2001"? Not really, the mastered in 8k UHD BD's will likely easily suffice. This is a industry that needs to just get to more 4K DI's. Not UHD BD's based on 2K DI's.

And here we are thinking 8K is really here if you believe LG and Samsung!

PS not picking on the 8K TV's but the whole marketing environment.

[Lee A Stewart]

Sharp to Take Part in CES 2020

Leading the world in this development, Sharp will present an ecosystem based on shooting 8K video, editing the footage, transmitting it via 5G/IP networks, and displaying the finished video. The Sharp booth will feature the world's largest class*3 120-inch 8K LCD as well as 8K-related equipment such as an 8K PC (to be exhibited for the first time), along with 5G-related equipment such as 5G smartphones. In addition, Sharp will present examples of solutions such as 5G transmission of 8K aerial video taken by drone and maintenance support using 8K video that boosts the efficiency of detecting anomalies in infrastructure such as pipelines.

https://displaydaily.com/article/pre...-in-ces-1-2020

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Sharp to Take Part in CES 2020

Leading the world in this development, Sharp will present an ecosystem based on shooting 8K video, editing the footage, transmitting it via 5G/IP networks, and displaying the finished video. The Sharp booth will feature the world's largest class*3 120-inch 8K LCD as well as 8K-related equipment such as an 8K PC (to be exhibited for the first time), along with 5G-related equipment such as 5G smartphones. In addition, Sharp will present examples of solutions such as 5G transmission of 8K aerial video taken by drone and maintenance support using 8K video that boosts the efficiency of detecting anomalies in infrastructure such as pipelines.

https://displaydaily.com/article/pre...-in-ces-1-2020

Interesting to read about how Sharp had to sue Hisense to get back their name in 2019, see https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20.../#.XgUn38qIaf1

Yes these are Sharp products, no longer Hisense.

[Scottishguy]

Just imagine having your totally stacked mastered in 8K UHD Blu-rays with probably over 100mbs average right next to a DvD sweating it to 10 on some store shelf. What a contrast.

It's like having Videodisc still around.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Bet we'll be seeing mastered in 8k UHD BD's from Sony.

In all honesty Robert pitching "The Road Ahead for 8K UHD conference" at CES has a difficult job with the current reality, 5G is not a internet solution for most areas in the USA or Canada for example, 8K streaming content still has to contend with ISP data caps for majority of consumers. Upscaling 8K TV's is a only bandaid for the # 1 problem which has to deal with lack of real 8K content.

IMHO 8K content can only come from reality based programming as the legacy upscaling of classic film movies is not a profitable endeavor.

Do we really want to see "Wizard of OZ" in 8k some time in the future? How about "My Fair Lady", or "2001"? Not really, the mastered in 8k UHD BD's will likely easily suffice. This is a industry that needs to just get to more 4K DI's. Not UHD BD's based on 2K DI's.

And here we are thinking 8K is really here if you believe LG and Samsung!

PS not picking on the 8K TV's but the whole marketing environment.

That's the thing with 4K: as much as the early rollout resembled that of 8K with shifting standards, TVs not accepting certain signals etc at least there was 4K content. Sony had that streaming box. Samsung were giving out a pre-loaded hard drive. Ultraflix were putting out upscaled stuff. Where's the 8K equivalent apart from YouTube videos and in-store demos? As you say, we need to get more movies finished in 4K before we can start looking at 8K, while streamers have no such tech bottlenecks or pressure to get things released by X date (one of the key benefits of controlling your own distribution platform) so I think we'll get 8K content from them first. And while Sony archived the raw 8K scans they did for Lawrence the 4K restoration was a very complicated and costly endeavour, redoing that in 8K isn't happening in any time soon.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Interesting to read about how Sharp had to sue Hisense to get back their name in 2019, see https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20.../#.XgUn38qIaf1

Yes these are Sharp products, no longer Hisense.

Good to see more competition in the high end market. Good for Sharp to get their identity back.

[sapiendut]

Sharp is high end now? Or is it next year?

[HDTV1080P]

High-end 4K Ultra HD commercial DLP projectors maintain the full 3840 x 2160P resolution (and 4096 x 2160P for rare 4096 sources) during fast motion scenes. The problem with all OLED’s and LCD’s 4K and 8K flat panel screens is they lose resolution when motion occurs on the screen, since the resolution is a static still picture rating for flat panels. So watching native 8K programs when they come out will have resolution lost during motion scenes on the best of 8K flat panels. However the advantage of 8K flat panel screens when compared to all 4K flat panel screens is that all 8K flat panel screens will be able to display the full 3840 x 2160P resolution even during fast moving action scenes on the screen. 8K Ultra HD is 7680 x 4320 and yes the upconverted 4K image will lose some motion resolution, however it will be able to maintain the full original native 3840 x 2160p from a 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray since the 8K upconverted static resolution is starting at 7680 x 4320. So even the worst 8K display on the market that loses a few thousand lines of resolution during fast motion scenes will still have the original 3840 x 2160P image from a native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray disc.

[JohnAV]

There is some tidbits in this CES preview

CES 2020: What to expect - FlatPanelsHD - 12/27

8K and 4K TVs
4K TVs will continue to dominate in 2020 and analysts expect 8K TVs to make up less than 1% of unit sales. Still, major brands will increasingly push 8K as their premium TVs, complete with their most advanced display technology and picture engines.

Sony's model numbers for 2020 have leaked. Amongst them is the Z8H (ZH8) range in 75 and 85 inches, which could be a more affordable range of 8K TVs. The leak also reveals new A9H (AH9) and A8H (AH8) OLED models.

Samsung already offers a line-up of 8K TVs and we expect the Korean powerhouse to widen its portfolio next year as it prepares to introduce OLED TVs from 2021 and microLED TVs gradually over the coming years. We also expect LG to widen its line-up of 8K OLED TVs and introduce more 8K LCD TVs. TCL has already said that it will incorporate miniLED backlighting technology into 8K LCD TVs.

Panasonic had originally planned to unveil its first 8K TV at IFA 2019 in September, but it decided to postpone the announcement - most likely to CES 2020. The 'MegaCon' prototype that Panasonic unveiled at IFA may be on display again at CES 2020, but it is unlikely to hit the TV market as Panasonic has announced that it will end production of LCD panels by 2021.

Vizio is expected to launch its first OLED TVs at CES 2020 and some Chinese TV brands may follow suit. OLED TVs will gradually take over in the coming years as investment in LCD TVs dry up. Philips will not announce its 2020 line-up at CES 2020.

As OLED enters the mainstream, great HDR picture quality will reach far more viewers (and OLED will come in a smaller size next year). We expect to once again see LG's delayed rollable OLED TV along with some new prototypes from LG Display. Other brands will continue to showcase huge microLED TVs but we do not expect them to become affordable or even approachable next year.

What about 4K TVs? After HDMI 2.1 being exclusive to LG in 2019, we expect many 2020 high-end 4K TVs to feature HDMI 2.1 ports along with HDMI 2.1 gaming features such as HDMI VRR (variable refresh rate) - plus various other flavors of VRR - as well as ALLM (auto low latency mode). Will we see the first 4K TVs with official support for HDMI QMS, too? We hope so.

And 8K content? At this point, it's what the 8K TV market needs but even if a content provider takes the stage at CES 2020 to announce plans to make 8K content available on the consumer market, it will take several years for 8K content to emerge in earnest. The 2020 Tokyo Olympics will not change the situation as it is just a technology showcase for 8K, with very little relevance to viewers at this time. An 8K Blu-ray format is unlikely and 2020 will instead mark the beginning of the next phase of streaming as Apple, Disney, NBCUniversal, WarnerMedia and others enter the sector - with 4K HDR content.

[Scottishguy]

So it seems Sony have abandoned 77" OLEDs looking at the model lineup for 2020?

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Sharp is high end now? Or is it next year?

Here's some info of their CES plans

Sharp to Take Part in CES 2020 - Display Daily

1. 8K+5G Ecosystem
Leading the world in this development, Sharp will present an ecosystem based on shooting 8K video, editing the footage, transmitting it via 5G/IP networks, and displaying the finished video. The Sharp booth will feature the world's largest class*3 120-inch 8K LCD as well as 8K-related equipment such as an 8K PC (to be exhibited for the first time), along with 5G-related equipment such as 5G smartphones. In addition, Sharp will present examples of solutions such as 5G transmission of 8K aerial video taken by drone and maintenance support using 8K video that boosts the efficiency of detecting anomalies in infrastructure such as pipelines.

2. AIoT World
Sharp will introduce its concept of the AIoT World that it is currently pursuing. Sharp will also exhibit a suite of built-in kitchen products as well as a number of air-conditioning products along with related solutions such as recipe downloading, trending information receiving, and remote controlling..

3. Business
Sharp will introduce displays and smart office-related equipment that will offer new usage scenarios for business. In addition to exhibiting for the first time a 31.5-inch reflective LCD with outstanding visibility outdoors, Sharp will also demonstrate a rollable 30-inch 4K flexible OLED display*4 and a 90-inch see-through LCD. Premium notebook PCs and other smart-office-related devices will also be on exhibit.

Location of Sharp Booth
14006, Central Hall, Las Vegas Convention Center (Nevada, U.S.A.

See the Exhibit Highlights (tentative) in the article