The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[Falcon Eddie]

Originally Posted by StormCrow

Falcon Eddie, you did say you do see a slight green hue on the FOTR menu book.

Does it not seem odd that this disc, as part of a set would have the basic menu hue look different than the others?

Yes, ever so slight a green hue on the book as to only be noticeable if looking for it. This film is supposed to look like fantasy. He did the same thing with "The Lovely Bones." I noticed in many scenes there were heightened blues during night sequences. Cyans to make things look warmer in others. A lot of gold tones too. Odd...I don't know. But, I did not see anything on my setup that looked like those screenshots at all. Not at all.

[PGW]

Originally Posted by lemonski

Yes, you hate the green tint. I think people got that the 4th time you said it. Saying it 4 times or 40 times will change NOTHING.

As far as I was aware, this thread isn't exclusively for complaints about LOTR EE. If you're going to clog it up with posts parroting the same thing over and over, other people have a right to be annoyed.

I'm not "clogging it up." In fact, I've been avoiding this thread since it's either going to lower my I.Q., raise my blood pressure or cause me to go as color-blind as many of you seem to be.

I was responding to an unwarranted whine on the part of a poster directed to those of us who are VERY unhappy with this release.

And, speaking for myself, I am going to KEEP complaining. New people read this board (and this thread) all the time (how many people, for instance, have asked "Does the green tint only occur on the first film, or all three?"). I am NOT going to be shouted down or told to shut up just because you fanboys want to sit around with your snot-colored blu-rays with happy smiles on your faces because Peter Jackson sorta mighta said that everything's A-OK.

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by Falcon Eddie

Yes, ever so slight a green hue on the book as to only be noticeable if looking for it. This film is supposed to look like fantasy. He did the same thing with "The Lovely Bones." I noticed in many scenes there were heightened blues during night sequences. Cyans to make things look warmer in others. A lot of gold tones too. Odd...I don't know. But, I did not see anything on my setup that looked like those screenshots at all. Not at all.

The only way I could "replicate" any true color change (beyond Rivendell because that has been proven several times over why it does not have an overall teal tint) and deep blue night shots was to really change my color settings on my television. I just find it odd that night sequences in the other LOTR films and The Lovely Bones are bathed in blue. Yet, in Fellowship it is a deep teal, not a strong blue.

I'm very aware of color and the effect of tint on the perception of tone on a scene. Some people don't care. That's fine. However, I do think that more people would love seeing the version of EE Fellowship without the teal tint.

[steelers1]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

You lost the bet, only at 408

but he didn`t give what time of morning

[nearjm]

OK, how about some sanity? (I know, it's futile, but listen...) The back and forth (is the green tint there or not?) really needs to end. The tint is there, pretty objectively measured by people with equipment to measure these things, but most people aren't bothered too much by it (though some are). Not much more to say.

There are really only two issues left to work on:

1) For those convinced that the overall green tint (as opposed to the scene-specific regrading that Peter Jackson most certainly authorized) was a screw-up, contact Warner Brothers and POLITELY plead that the FotR discs be redone, with some kind of exchange system established for those who care (most buyers haven't noticed the issue and won't bother).

2) Until such a correction is made by WB, this is the version of the film we have. I'd love to hear some experiences and instructions on adjustments that can be made to my display (contrast, brightness, grayscale) to compensate for the green tint and bring the image back as close as possible to Peter Jackson's regraded version minus the (probably accidental) overall tint.

Other than these two issues, I really think the green tint has been argued to death and it's probably time to move on.

[Falcon Eddie]

Originally Posted by WorkShed

The only way I could "replicate" any true color change (beyond Rivendell because that has been proven several times over why it does not have an overall teal tint) and deep blue night shots was to really change my color settings on my television. I just find it odd that night sequences in the other LOTR films and The Lovely Bones are bathed in blue. Yet, in Fellowship it is a deep teal, not a strong blue.

I'm very aware of color and the effect of tint on the perception of tone on a scene. Some people don't care. That's fine. However, I do think that more people would love seeing the version of EE Fellowship without the teal tint.

I don't have the teal tint in night scenes. I did not have to change the settings on my flat panel either. And the green hue is not strong enough anywhere on my setup that it sticks out like a sore thumb either. Blue/steely tint in night scenes/fog with the hand armor and the slimy horses. A lot of gold tint in the Hobbits abodes and elsewhere. A lot of desaturated shots too that I did not care for as much, but are there anyway.

[jebhdb]

Originally Posted by nearjm

OK, how about some sanity? (I know, it's futile, but listen...) The back and forth (is the green tint there or not?) really needs to end. The tint is there, pretty objectively measured by people with equipment to measure these things, but most people aren't bothered too much by it (though some are). Not much more to say.

There are really only two issues left to work on:

1) For those convinced that the overall green tint (as opposed to the scene-specific regrading that Peter Jackson most certainly authorized) was a screw-up, contact Warner Brothers and POLITELY plead that the FotR discs be redone, with some kind of exchange system established for those who care (most buyers haven't noticed the issue and won't bother).

2) Until such a correction is made by WB, this is the version of the film we have. I'd love to hear some experiences and instructions on adjustments that can be made to my display (contrast, brightness, grayscale) to compensate for the green tint and bring the image back as close as possible to Peter Jackson's regraded version minus the (probably accidental) overall tint.

Other than these two issues, I really think the green tint has been argued to death and it's probably time to move on.

Great post nearjm.

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by nearjm

1) For those convinced that the overall green tint (as opposed to the scene-specific regrading that Peter Jackson most certainly authorized) was a screw-up, contact Warner Brothers and POLITELY plead that the FotR discs be redone, with some kind of exchange system established for those who care (most buyers haven't noticed the issue and won't bother).

2) Until such a correction is made by WB, this is the version of the film we have. I'd love to hear some experiences and instructions on adjustments that can be made to my display (contrast, brightness, grayscale) to compensate for the green tint and bring the image back as close as possible to Peter Jackson's regraded version minus the (probably accidental) overall tint.

1) I did write a complete and friendly letter to WBHV.
2) As I have said before (but can be quickly buried under the spiteful rhetoric, I know) what I did was decrease my green levels as low as they could go. I brought my blue levels down just a little bit. I boosted my red levels. It's not perfect but it made for blue night scenes and a usual skin color when it was green and sickly before.

Originally Posted by Falcon Eddie

I don't have the teal tint in night scenes. And it is not strong enough anywhere that is on my setup that it sticks out either. Blue/steely tint in night scenes/fog with the hand armor and the slimy horses. A lot of gold tint in the Hobbits abodes and elsewhere. A lot of desaturated shots too that I did not care for as much, but are there anyway.

I don't see that with the same settings that provide perfect picture on Two Towers. I'm saying that if the settings that made Two Towers look so good suddenly make Fellowship have the teal tint, then obviously something is wrong with Fellowship.

Does your TV have any automated color settings that are turned on? I'm purely trying to gather information on this issue.

[Todd Smith]

I finally got the time to watch this last night. Understand I simply put on the movie as I normally would and did not pause it once, do any comparisons with any other version, etc........my goal last night for my first viewing of FOTR in 4.5 years was to simply enjoy it as much as possible which I did. It was flat out awesome overall! Just for reference, here is what I am watching/listening on........

-RS40 projector
-Dalite High Power 2.8 gain 2.35 CIH screen 117.5" diag (9' wide) 12.5' view dist
-Oppo 93
-Onkyo 885 pre/pro
-Sherborn 7/2100 amp
-7.1 setup with JBL S series speakers
-4 SVS subs (3 PB13 Ultras and a 12/2 Ultra)
-Dual Buttkickers attached to a mini riser which my couch sits on
-Bat cave fully dedicated/enclosed HT room with a combo of black velvet and flat black paint on the ceiling, floor, side/back/front walls and couch.

With all that said, overall I thought this was a very good presentation as far as the video, but not excellent. The biggest issue was (surprise!) the green tint. Honestly, I only found it to be a minor distraction in the grand scheme of things, but a distraction none the less. It certainly is not as glaring as it looks when just viewing the screen shots and comparison shots on line, but I would say in general, those shots were very accurate as far as what I watched last night which I find interesting.......the shots are accurate, but dont represent what I saw in motion. It simply does not look nearly as bad in motion, BUT I kept thinking throughout the film "this would look significantly better without the green tint". There just seemed to be a general muted type quality to a lot of the colors/scenes as slight as it was. Fire was the biggest victim IMO since every time it popped up it took on a slight muted quality which was due to the green tint and was not fully convincing IMO. Other things where the subtle green tint made its presence known off the top of my head were hair (Saruman), smoke, soap suds (Bilbo's party), sky, light shining through trees (such as the ending battle scenes) or openings, some water, some snow (the infamous long shot of the Fellowship walking along the mountain was extremely close to what the screen cap shows with a heavy blue tint though, not green) and near white type clothing which you could tell was being impacted by the green tint. So to sum it up the tint is only a minor distraction overall, BUT I would LOVE to see this film with the tint removed since there is no doubt in my mind it would take it from "very good" to "excellent" as far as the overall presentation. I hope we get the chance to see this type of version either through a disc swap, or worst case scenario in the next release. Time will tell, but I hope it happens since I strongly believe this film could look considerably better without the green tint as subtle as it is most of the time.

The general detail and sharpness was fantastic as has been reported. It quite often seemed like I was viewing this film for the first time and made all the video upgrades I have done in the past year 100% worth it! There were the occasional soft shots/scenes, but they were few and far between to my eyes.

Having said all that, I have no more complaints with what I watched. I was worried about comments of the overall transfer being "dark" which I just did not see. Maybe once I throw on TT and ROTK, FOTR will look relatively dark at that point, but it certainly does not look dark in general to me on my setup. I know I said "muted" in the previous paragraph, but to me that is different from dark.

The other thing I was worried about was loss of shadow detail which I simply did not notice to any significant degree for whatever reason. Again, maybe if I did a comparison with one of the other versions of this film it would stick out at that point, but without doing that I found shadow detail to overall be VERY good and no major complaints. In fact, the whole Mines of Moria sequence was a standout in my setup and I did not find anything lacking in shadow detail department (again though, this is without doing a comparison which might show what I am missing if anything).

With all that in mind, I am planning on taking the ignorance is bliss route from here on out with this transfer in the sense that I dont plan to do ANY comparing to my previous EE DVD. I simply dont want to know what I am missing and doing this comparison will no doubt make the issues more obvious I am sure. Overall, I really enjoyed what I watched last night and I just want to keep it that way! Again though, I am still holding out hope for a disc swap since you can count me in the "not convinced this is not an error camp" by the damage control Warner "statement". In order for me to be fully convinced this IS intentional, I need to hear it from PJ himself and would also be curious as to what his thoughts were if that turns out to be the case so I could try to appreciate what I am seeing more (I may still not like it, but at least I could have a greater sense of appreciation). The fact that PJ has been so silent only raises red flags still in my mind since you would think if this was truly intentional he would simply throw out a quick "all is good and the tint/color timing changes are intentional on the blu ray" type statement at least. The fact that he has flat out ignored those type questions on the facebook page while answering others around it is very interesting to say the least.

Enough of all that..............how about the audio? In a word.........PERFECT! At least as perfect as film audio tracks get. Dynamics were first rate. Dialog was mixed to perfection and this film MUST contain the best use of echo I have ever heard. It is just amazing as some of the voices surround and pull you in to the film/moment. surround use was fantastic with a great example being the cave troll scene as the chain(?) is being whipped around the room you get the sensation that you are right in the middle of the action as it goes around the surrounds........very cool! LFE use was just mind blowing as there were so many different tones/elements depending on the scene and it is obvious a LOT of thought and care went into the low end. The cave troll scene up to where Gandalf falls is still one of the overall best HT demo scenes there is IMO. Titanic low end when called for, amazing surround use, awesome dynamics, etc........this was my go to set of scenes for years for giving a HT demo and it has earned that spot once again!

Oh, the packaging of this set is first rate! Gorgeous and just a very solid design/job overall.

Will watch TT and ROTK I hope over the weekend if I have time.......cant wait!

I would just like to also say after actually watching the disc that I can fully understand ALL opinions on this ranging from "non issue....I dont see any green!" to "ugly and WTF happened?" and everything inbetween. There are SO MANY variables that contribute to this wide range of opinions such as different eyes, different sensitivities to color/other issues, different rooms, different equip, different calibrations, etc, etc........for anyone to suggest their opinion as fact and others are wrong or off is ridiculous in light of this. I hope we call start respecting each others opinion more even if we dont see it the same way.

[Falcon Eddie]

Originally Posted by WorkShed

1) I did write a complete and friendly letter to WBHV.
2) As I have said before (but can be quickly buried under the spiteful rhetoric, I know) what I did was decrease my green levels as low as they could go. I brought my blue levels down just a little bit. I boosted my red levels. It's not perfect but it made for blue night scenes and a usual skin color when it was green and sickly before.





I don't see that with the same settings that provide perfect picture on Two Towers. I'm saying that if the settings that made Two Towers look so good suddenly make Fellowship have the teal tint, then obviously something is wrong with Fellowship.

Does your TV have any automated color settings that are turned on? I'm purely trying to gather information on this issue.

No automated settings...I did not have to fiddle with any color settings either. Have not got to Two Towers yet so I can't comment on that one.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Troy73

I wouldn't since I already own it. The "Theatrical color timing" is on my "Theatrical blu-ray Collection" and the" Extended Edition color timing" is on my "Extended Edition blu-ray Collection". So I'm all set, thanks anyway.

Really? You wouldn't even accept a version that has continuity with the other two films, doesn't suffer from "black crush", and is 100% scandal-free? You'd just clutch the green one and say "this is what the FOTR EE looks like"?

Hmmm... I'm thinking that both sides of this argument are getting a little extreme. As I said earlier, I can live with the tint and if there's no fix for it coming, then fair enough. If sending a little blurb to Warner Bros alerting them to the issue at least lets them know there are a lot of people who'd like to see a different version released get's the job done, then all the better.

There's so much black and white in this thread. "The green makes the movie horrible and unwatchable!" "The green makes the movie much better!" "This is what Peter Jackson wanted, he said so!"

Personally, I think PJ did see the original master, sans tinting, gave it a thumbs up, but someone screwed up between PJ seeing it and it being pressed to disc. This means WB was not lying about PJ seeing the master, it's just a simple miscommunication, a mistake. Nobody has to get tarred and feathered, the confusion clears up, and there is a version everybody is happy with.

Unless you'd seriously stick with the green one after they admitted it was a mistake, out of some weird misguided sense of principle.

[Riches]

I can't believe how long this argument has been going on (and I can't believe I've read almost every comment in this thread - I obviously need to get a life!).

We seem to have fallen into name-calling and extremes now. Yet, I think the whole thing can be simplified here...

*Group A* Have actually watched the BRD of FOTR and believe that there is now a green tint applied to the entire film and that it has destroyed the look of the film. They are angry.

*Group B* Have NOT watched the BRD of FOTR and believe that there is now a green tint applied to the entire film -BASED ON ONLINE SCREENCAPS and YOUTUBE VIDEOS- and think that it has destroyed the look of the film. They are angry, though haven't actually tested it for themselves to garner their own opinion.

*Group C* Admits that the colour timing has been changed (this isn't really being disputed by anyone) but aren't bothered by it. They are unconcerned.

*Group D* Admits that the colour timing has changed and believe that the film looks BETTER than previous editions. They are happy.

*Group E* Seems to not notice any difference at all and doesn't quite get what everyone is talking about. They are puzzled.

*Group F* Seem to have TVs so poorly calibrated that they are seeing all sorts of weirdness, in particular the poster who could see nothing at all during the Mines of Moria scenes because PJ made the whole film too dark. They are hopeless.

*Group F* are not represented here because they simply purchased a copy of the film without being aware of all of the hoopla surrounding the colour-timing. They are sitting at home enjoying FOTR. (I wish I was in this group)

Anyone I missed?

Personally I think that those who see no difference aren't looking that hard. But I also believe those who think that the film is now this pasty green mess are blowing the whole thing out of proportion.

The colour has been changed. No question. You're either going to be okay with it or you're not. But EVERY YouTube video and screencap I've personally seen so far has been ridiculous. My television shows nothing of what I am seeing in those shots. I DO NOT see green snow on the mountains. I DO NOT see green skies! Yes, some scenes have a green hue. I can't remember the last film I saw where the director/cinematographer didn't use some sort of filter. The last four Harry Potters are positively BLUE and have nothing even close to realistic colour representation, but are beautiful films. Sleepy Hollow, one of my favourite movies, has almost all colour drained from the image, but, again, is a gorgeous-looking film.

'Proper Calibration' is also a touchy subject. We do not all see things the same. I've had my television 'properly' calibrated and then made small adjustments from that point so the image was pleasing to my own personal eye. I have seen calibrated TVs where the colours were wildly over-saturated... Where the contrast was too extreme... Where the sharpness was too great (or too soft). I haven't even seen two calibration discs that calibrate a TV to the same levels. And it doesn't matter what brand your TV is or how much you paid for it: I have seen beautiful images on low-end TVs and shitty images on $10,000 sets.

The point I'm trying to make is.... this is all very subjective. Screaming at one person because they don't see what you see is pointless. Because I can guarantee you that they DON'T see what you see. No two people are going to perceive the image in the same way, it doesn't matter what calibration you have or what TV you have. If you're not satisfied with FOTR, don't watch it. Mail it to PJ personally with broken discs inside; wait for a future release... whatever.

But don't attack those of us who think that the new transfer looks rich and full and beautiful and we won't attack those who only see green. We're not wrong, we just see it differently than you.

And, for the guy who said the movie was so dark he couldn't see ANYTHING... uh, dude... fix your damn TV.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by El_Jay

Really? You wouldn't even accept a version that has continuity with the other two films, doesn't suffer from "black crush", and is 100% scandal-free? You'd just clutch the green one and say "this is what the FOTR EE looks like"?

Actually this is a scandal free release, out there in the real world with real people who really could care less if there is a green tin added to the movie or if the blacks are messed up in certain scenes, you know the people, those living in the real world.

Some of them would probably die laughing reading what is going on in these forums and most likely tell the lot of us to go out and get lives

[WorkShed]

Originally Posted by Falcon Eddie

No automated settings...I did not have to fiddle with any color settings either. Have not got to Two Towers yet so I can't comment on that one.

Strange. I did not have this result in the slightest. My television isn't the highest end in the world, but I certainly wouldn't call it bad by any stretch. It has been rather accurate (through my calibration, not professionally done but I have gone through several home video calibrations) color-wise and the video matches the screenshots which I have seen off my calibrated monitor.

Strange, indeed.

I highly recommend watching the Mines of Moria sequence with the Balrog and then switching to Two Towers and watch the flashback opening. I know they've never perfectly matched up since they are two different films with slight differences in color grading, but I think that Two Towers shows some of the contrast and color limitations present in Fellowship.

I didn't think that Fellowship looked too bad when I watched the film. Then I popped in Two Towers. My story changed instantly.

Also, on a side-note, thank you for the courtesy to answering my questions politely. I feel that if we don't put down anyone's opinion but openly discuss our sides without turning into a heated argument, the forum will be a more inviting and entertaining place.

[vertigo12314]

I'm a little disappointed. I expected to not have a problem but when I see cyan in the whites of peoples eyes and in darker scenes it looks like everyone has cyan irises. Some of the cyan looks good in the Saruman scenes and I don't mind but other scenes it's a little sickly. My Dad (who doesn't focus on technical stuff) complained through the movie.

[Lincoln6Echo]

Putting aside the color timing issue, as I just got my set, anybody getting the cool-ass-looking LOTR Chess set that was featured in one of the fliers inside the package? I know it'd run around $750 or so for the entire set (including the TTT and ROTK expansions packs), but damn, it'd be a cool set to have if you're a movie memorabilia collector. I'm not one, but I'd almost be willing to save up and buy that set and add-ons.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Actually this is a scandal free release, out there in the real world with real people who really could care less if there is a green tin added to the movie or if the blacks are messed up in certain scenes, you know the people, those living in the real world.

Some of them would probably die laughing reading what is going on in these forums and most likely tell the lot of us to go out and get lives

I would guess those people would say the same regarding anyone who posts on a bluray message board about anything. We're all nerds here, don't fool yourself

[Rblu-Dblu]

So what is this Lord of the Rings trilogy I've been hearing so much about?

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by Falcon Eddie

Sorry, you are wrong. It has proven nothing to me but you are a liar. My set does not show anything like those screen shots dispersed through this thread. That shows something or someone is lying.

By the way..was Karl Marx's moniker taken so you couldn't use that one in this forum. Some kind of coincidence here maybe?

LOL

Hate to break it to ya mate, but your version has green tint and you've convinced yourself it's not there.

They all have green tint, WB didn't just randomly send some green versions out to **** with people.

The problem is that people have blown the issue completely out of proportion by saying "THE WHOLE MOVIE IS GREEN", "IT MAKES ME WANT TO VOMIT!" when the actual green tinge is far, far more subtle than that. It's literally indiscernible in scenes like Gandalf talking to Frodo in the Mines of Moria, or much of Rivendell (it has less bloom but doesn't appear "green"), but it IS there.

Please, pop in disc 2, go to the infamous Caradhras scene where Boromir picks up the ring. The snow is the biggest indicator and, to me, the most displeasing example of the green in the entire movie. If you don't see the tint, congratulations your eye can't discern this sort of difference and you couldn't be happier with the transfer... but no, you did not magically get an untinted version of the trilogy, no, people aren't lying for some unfathomable reason to create a ****storm around one of their favorite releases.

At least be civil to people.

[El_Jay]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Actually this is a scandal free release, out there in the real world with real people who really could care less if there is a green tin added to the movie or if the blacks are messed up in certain scenes, you know the people, those living in the real world.

Some of them would probably die laughing reading what is going on in these forums and most likely tell the lot of us to go out and get lives

Yeah, the real world only consists of J6P and Blu-ray isn't an enthusiast format at all.

It's not a scandal-free release. A scandal-free release doesn't have 412 pages of debate in a week over one specific issue that has been proven to exist.

The apologists and deniers are just as bad as those freaking out about the tint.