The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition) (2001-2003)

[m3racer123]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

With that in mind, I can see 4K rebuilds of native >2K live action + upscaled VFX becoming a thing IF this new format takes off and they're in need of some big recent movies from the last 10-15 years which were finished at 2K.

The upscaled VFX might stick out like a sore thumb, making it obviously CG compared to the native 4K footage.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by m3racer123

The upscaled VFX might stick out like a sore thumb, making it obviously CG compared to the native 4K footage.

The point I was hinting at in that post is that even 4K movies don't usually have 4K VFX, often because the CG is being used for such hectic action shots that the temporal resolution is being pissed away anyway.

And what of the pre-DI movies that were finished on film and contain filmed-out CG elements which top out at 2K? They'll just be given a straight 4K scan so the VFX elements will already be effectively 'upscaled', only it tends to look a bit softer (almost like an old-fashioned optical would do, which incidentally will become even more obvious in 4K too) rather than sticking out like a sore thumb.

Besides, people have been complaining about the CG in LOTR for years so what difference would an upscale make? CG Legolas horsey grab FTW!

[StingingVelvet]

Star Trek: Enterprise on BD upscaled the 480p and 720p effects in the first three seasons and it was definitely obvious. Not only because they looked soft, but also because there was significant aliasing. 2k movie effects will likely look better than that scaled to 4k, proportionally, but I'm sure it will be noticeable. As Geoff said I bet it will depend on how well UHD BD OMG sells, and I personally don't expect it to blow the doors off.

In the mainstream streaming media future I would guess 2k masters upscaled to 4k will be the norm eventually, and no studio will see a point in re-doing effects for such a situation.

[Geoff D]

The thing to remember is that the higher quality of the source, the better the upscale. I'm not surprised that the old 480/720 Enterprise VFX (which was done on TV schedules and budget, let's not forget that) stands out like it does, even in the SD broadcasts it was exceedingly obvious! But when you start getting into the HD/2K realm for theatrical VFX it's crazy how good that stuff can look when upscaled into 4K, especially on DI-finished material.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Wait... which thread am I in??? Star Trek, 4K, 8K or LOTR? It's difficult to tell.

[TheHutt]

Weren't even the DIs von LOTR scanned only with 2K?

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The thing to remember is that the higher quality of the source, the better the upscale. I'm not surprised that the old 480/720 Enterprise VFX (which was done on TV schedules and budget, let's not forget that) stands out like it does, even in the SD broadcasts it was exceedingly obvious! But when you start getting into the HD/2K realm for theatrical VFX it's crazy how good that stuff can look when upscaled into 4K, especially on DI-finished material.

Yah, I referenced that, but I still bet they look softer than native 4k effects, right?

[Geoff D]

You'd be surprised. As I said, a lot of big VFX shots are done for sequences that have such low temporal resolution anyway (being so quick moving as much of today's action cinema is) that you'd never notice the difference, though that's where HFR would redress the balance. If Cameron is going to make the Avadah sequels (all 730 of them) in 4K HFR then the CG is gonna need to be crazy high res.

It's the older 2K (or less) stuff filmed out to 35mm that's then scanned back in for the video transfer which can look softer, whereas the stuff that's dropped straight into the DI with no generational steps is that much cleaner and sharper having avoided the photochemical process.

[m3racer123]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's the older 2K (or less) stuff filmed out to 35mm that's then scanned back in for the video transfer which can look softer, whereas the stuff that's dropped straight into the DI with no generational steps is that much cleaner and sharper having avoided the photochemical process.

So does that mean the VFX in Chris Nolan's films will look soft because he never uses a DI?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by m3racer123

So does that mean the VFX in Chris Nolan's films will look soft because he never uses a DI?

That's kind of a moot point re: soft VFX when he makes 35mm look as soft as he does in general, part of which is because he uses second-generation interpositives for all digital video transfer duties. For the IMAX scenes the VFX is rendered at up to 8K, which is more or less standard practice for that format (even a theatrical print of a 15/70 original is supposed to resolve 12K worth of information, never mind the negative!).

[m3racer123]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's kind of a moot point re: soft VFX when he makes 35mm look as soft as he does in general, part of which is because he uses second-generation interpositives for all digital video transfer duties.

I guess that's part of the reason for the stark contrast between the 35mm and IMAX scenes on TDK and TDKR (although I think the 35mm scenes on TDKR look pretty good anyway).

Originally Posted by Geoff D

For the IMAX scenes the VFX is rendered at up to 8K, which is more or less standard practice for that format (even a theatrical print of a 15/70 original is supposed to resolve 12K worth of information, never mind the negative!).

I've always loved the way IMAX looks on BD - bring on IMAX UHD BDs!

[m3racer123]

Hang on - this has become a Nolan thread!

[Brightstar]

Originally Posted by TheHutt

Weren't even the DIs von LOTR scanned only with 2K?

Yes and i think they will look great upscaled to 4k . One thing i would love to know is what will they give us for the super box set with all six films ? (hobbit +LOTR)

[42041]

Originally Posted by TheHutt

Weren't even the DIs von LOTR scanned only with 2K?

Apparently a mixture of 2k and 4k scanning according to some industry articles on it. The vfx and final output was 2k of course.

[Geoff D]

Wouldn't surprise if there was some 4K scanning in there, as the EE Blu-ray of Fellowship often looks extraordinarily detailed. Leaving the contentious colour completely aside, it's one of the best looking Blu-rays in my entire collection for that sort of tightly-integrated & filmic detail.

They actually finished the DI of Fellowship last of all (it wasn't originally done as a full DI and they only completed it during post on ROTK) so it doesn't surprise me that it can look so good at times, certainly better than the movie which followed it which looks a touch smeary at times (nothing to do with the Two Towers Blu-ray encode, it's baked in to the master).

[Trax-3]

certainly better than the movie which followed it which looks a touch smeary at times (nothing to do with the Two Towers Blu-ray encode, it's baked in to the master).

Funny, its the only one of the three I saw theatrically and I remember thinking that it doesn't look as good as I expected. First time I had ever thought that while watching a movie on the big screen.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

it's one of the best looking Blu-rays in my entire collection for that sort of tightly-integrated & filmic detail.

Fully agreed. I even like the color as the green tint issue was way overblown caused mostly from obessive screencap comparisons on non calibrated monitors.

[bookcase]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Fully agreed. I even like the color as the green tint issue was way overblown caused mostly from obessive screencap comparisons on non calibrated monitors.

FINALLY... someone who agrees with me. I thought I was alone.

[m3racer123]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Fully agreed. I even like the color as the green tint issue was way overblown caused mostly from obessive screencap comparisons on non calibrated monitors.

Thankfully, I never even noticed the tint. I doubt anyone would unless they were switching between screencaps on their monitor.

[HeavyHitter]

I've watched the disc on three different pro calibrated displays I've had since it was released including my front projector. It looked great on all three.