4K Blu-ray content on the horizon?

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

PS also you quoted the article but yet you missed the most important part in your zeal to support your point "the fact that sales of big screen TVs, 50 inches or bigger, increased more than 32%"

.

That's because an increase of 32% means nothing when you're starting out with a small number. This reminds me of people who push vinyl LP. Sales of vinyl increased in 2011 by 36% and fans use this to argue that "vinyl is coming back". But it's still only 0.2% of all music units and 1.2% of all music long-form units. It's a rounding error. (And I'm a vinyl fan - still have 400 vinyl albums in my living room. But facts are facts.)

Furthermore, it was a biased article written more like a press release than researched journalism that emphasized a number representing a minority as a majority. Sets over 50" being 17% of the market is nothing to brag about. (To tell you the truth, I don't even believe that number is possible. I believe it has to be a larger percentage of HD sales. Unless computer monitors are being counted in that number, driving down the average size.)

But even though I think the market share of sets over 50" is actually larger than that article indicated, I still don't believe that the market for really large sizes 65" and above is going to be a large market for all the reasons I indicated. Even if the economy was better, I don't think it's going to be a large market. Having said that, I still support the development of 4K technology for the home.

[vargo]

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/15/S...ow-CES-update/

Really cool Samsung display 'window'.

In this example he is showcasing the obvious use as an actual window, like you would have in your home to look out of.

However another potential application is just to have a transparent screen that covers your entire wall, made-to-measure. Maybe not glass, just flexible plastic that rolls on like wallpaper.

It won't compromise on your decor since it is transparent, if your wall is painted blue then it looks blue with the display 'off'. Your TV can be thought of as the same as a video 'Window' on your desktop, you can move it around and resize to find the best spot. Meanwhile the rest of the 'display' remains transparent just like in this example.

I was only talking about this a few days ago and people were laughing and saying it was impossible. Here is a practical demo that shows exactly what I was describing. I think homes and apartments in the future will be built around things like this.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

That's because an increase of 32% means nothing when you're starting out with a small number.

who cares, increasing is increasing, that is how small numbers become really large ones. Let me ask you something simple in June of `11997 what do you thing DVDs penetration was? it was also very small but eventually it did become virtually 100%.

Furthermore, it was a biased article written more like a press release than researched journalism that emphasized a number representing a minority as a majority. Sets over 50" being 17% of the market is nothing to brag about. (To tell you the truth, I don't even believe that number is possible. I believe it has to be a larger percentage of HD sales. Unless computer monitors are being counted in that number, driving down the average size.)

funny how you did not have an issue bringing in the article when you wanted to spin it as "see only 17% of people bought a big screen TV so that means most people don't have a home big enough to have a 50"+ TV". But because I pointed out something that you don't like (that it included how that number is significantly higher then last year), all of a sudden it is not good enough for you any more since it directly contradicts what you are saying.

But even though I think the market share of sets over 50" is actually larger than that article indicated, I still don't believe that the market for really large sizes 65" and above is going to be a large market for all the reasons I indicated. Even if the economy was better, I don't think it's going to be a large market.

display sizes in homes have grown since the first TV hit the market, and I agree it is hard to consider a 50" a big screen today but that was used in the article and it is as good a cut off as any. What you seem to fail to realize is that size is not fixed, for the price of a 65" today 5 years ago it might have been a 50" and 10 years ago it might have been a 42". Which is one of the reason that it is easier to buy a bigger TV today and people are doing it.

a few pages back I pointed out the THX document ( recommended screen diagonal= .84*seating distance) and you said, that might be proper but it does not mean that everyone will have it. I agree not everyone will properly see content in their home (especially in all situations) but the issue is that you fail to realize that there is a big difference between proper and what most homes have now as their main screen and that is not because they can’t have fit a properly set-up TV in their homes or that they don’t want a properly set-up TV in their homes but there are other reasons (don’t have the $, don’t know what is out there.......) and those brake down over time and people as a whole are moving (be it at a slow pace) to properly watching TV at home.

[Post Prod]

Originally Posted by Chevypower

That's a load of crap because I have seen it for myself. I trust my eyes more than any article that theorizes the subject. For one thing, it would depend how close you are to the 42'' 4K TV. The closer the better.

One would need to be (with 20/20 vision) about 2-3 feet away from a screen that size to get the full benefit of 2160p (4k).

I applaud your super human eyesight. But for the rest of us schlubs with 20/20 vision, any benefit beyond that is pure imagination territory. Pardon me if I trust science more than someones personal account on the matter.

I have a 100 inch screen. I would need to be 6 feet away to get the full benefit of 2160p. Talk about immersion.

This is of course assuming all the other technical ducks are in a row to provide a pristine 2160p transfer.

Now - where it could yield dividends at smaller screen sizes is for passive 3D 4k releases.

I'm all for it. It can't come soon enough. But it's coming with a lot of snake oil.

[Gradius2]

Blu-ray v2 with native 4K is coming by 2013:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-def-2013.html

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Let me ask you something simple in June of `11997 what do you thing DVDs penetration was?

A beginning is a very delicate time.
Know then, that it is the year 11,997.
The known universe is ruled by the Padishah Emperor Penton-man the Fourth, my father.
In this time, the most precious substance in the universe... is the compression spice, mpe'lange.
The spice extends sharpness.
The spice expands resolution.
The spice is vital to space perception.
The Spacing Mods and its navigators,
who the spice has mutated over 4K years, use the Orange spice codec, which gives them the ability to mod space.
That is, travel to any part of the known universe...without moving.
Oh, yes. I forgot to tell you.
The spice exists on only one planet in the entire universe.
A desolate, dry planet with vast deserts.
Arrakis. Blu-ray planet. Otherwise known as D U N E

- From the Manual of Muad'ecib by the Princess Iblulan

[PRO-630HD]

I am amazed at the actual 4K glasses free displays that will sell in the US by Xmas. Toshiba, LG, etc. have displays that can be in your home by fall.

[Steedeel]

I expect 4k media to be introduced with the PS4 (probably Christmas 2013, early 2014.) I also expect another format war with Blu versus RED all over again. If this is the last generation of optical media, it is going to be some swan song. 4k tv, 4k players, lovely full 3D films/games and hopefully a nice 4k headset/visor from Sony! Consider me sold! All the village idiots can watch their streamed crap on their smartphones and tablets, i will be playing to a different tune.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by deciazulado

a beginning is a very delicate time.
Know then, that it is the year 11,997.
The known universe is ruled by the padishah emperor penton-man the fourth, my father.
In this time, the most precious substance in the universe... Is the compression spice, mpe'lange.
The spice extends sharpness.
The spice expands resolution.
The spice is vital to space perception.
The spacing mods and its navigators,
who the spice has mutated over 4k years, use the orange spice codec, which gives them the ability to mod space.
That is, travel to any part of the known universe...without moving.
Oh, yes. I forgot to tell you.
The spice exists on only one planet in the entire universe.
A desolate, dry planet with vast deserts.
Arrakis. Blu-ray planet. Otherwise known as d u n e

- from the manual of muad'ecib by the princess iblulan

10,191.

[Trekkie313]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I expect 4k media to be introduced with the PS4 (probably Christmas 2013, early 2014.) I also expect another format war with Blu versus RED all over again. If this is the last generation of optical media, it is going to be some swan song. 4k tv, 4k players, lovely full 3D films/games and hopefully a nice 4k headset/visor from Sony! Consider me sold! All the village idiots can watch their streamed crap on their smartphones and tablets, i will be playing to a different tune.

Of course we all know, Red is the color of Communists!

[Jimmy Smith]

Im skeptical we will see 4k discs in 2013. For Blu-Ray 3D for example the first discs arrived on the market in June 2010 roughly two years after Panasonic submitted there proposal for a standard and that required no new codec or disc structure two things 4k discs will require.

So many questions need to be answered. How will it achieve the needed capacity? What will the format be called? What new codecs will be used? Lots of questions and in order to avoid another messy format war the tech companies are going to have to come to a concensus. That will require time. Id rather 4k discs get delayed for a single unified format then launch earlier and deal with another format war

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

So many questions need to be answered.

Hardly.

How will it achieve the needed capacity?

Better compression and with higher capacity Blu-ray discs.

What will the format be called?

Blu-ray. (Possibly like 3D, and Blu-ray 3D, it will have an abbreviation to specify 4K/Ultra HD, etc).

What new codecs will be used?

The current consensus is that HVEC will be standardized by the industry.

Lots of questions and in order to avoid another messy format war the tech companies are going to have to come to a concensus.

There is no need for a war and the industry is way ahead of the phase that had Blu-ray facing HDDVD. The format that will be used for 4K will be Blu-ray.

That will require time.

Since manufacturers are already openly mentioning preliminary street dates, it appears that you are wrong.

Id rather 4k discs get delayed for a single unified format then launch earlier and deal with another format war

This is nonsense. No one is talking about alternatives, wars, etc. The current negotiations are about agreeing on spec updates for Blu-ray's tech portfolio.

Pro-B

[Exile]

Are there going to be 200 GB Blu Ray discs to go along with them? Overcompressed 100 GB BDXL 2k won't be much of a bump.

[Gradius2]

200GB discs are 2006's technology:
http://www.slashgear.com/tdk-shows-o...y-disc-011390/

Why to stop at 200GB?
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computi...a-single-disc/

[PRO-630HD]

I really think something along the lines of a 3X the capacity of current bluray discs is needed so 75gb at least for bare bones discs and 150gb as a max capacity disc at a minimum. 200gb would be better but I don't know if really needed.

Aren't 100gb blurays already on the market for recording purposes?

Granted no format war needed, Toshiba is apparently pushing 4K bluray as well. There is a considerable amount of content on the market for 4K already by all major studios as they have done 4K masters for numerous films for thier blurays. This is easily already in the 300-500 title range. Spare me the studios won't release their pristine 4K masters argument as it is horrendously invalid. Studios since 2006 have been releasing thier pristine 2K studio masters in many films where only a 2K DI exists. This applies to many films from 2000-2010. The copy you have at home is the identical pristine master they have at the studio. Penton-man has already totally derailed that argument.

The real question remains just how much of an upgrade it will be? Seeing Star Wars 77 on bluray I wasn't exactly blown away. The dvd was stunning but then again it came from an HD master! If the bluray came from a 4K master I am sure it would have stunned as well. IMO 4K masters used on bluray easily outshine thier 2K or HD counterparts. Very few 4K blurays will come from a 6K or 8K master. It will be a niche format much like laserdisc with glasses free HD and the best PQ available I am sure I will jump on the bandwagon.

Anamorphic 21:9 4K bluray won't happen as it simply won't deliver 5,120 pixels across the screen. Now I must say I would prefer it's native 17:9 aspect ratio similiar to the current projectors on the market, in cinemas and on the 152 in. Panasonic. It simply works better for film and many films are simply cropped from 2K to 1.9K. The native aspect ratio would avoid all that and offer a little wider picture which would be new and cool.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PRO-630HD

I really think something along the lines of a 3X the capacity of current bluray discs is needed so 75gb at least for bare bones discs and 150gb as a max capacity disc at a minimum. 200gb would be better but I don't know if really needed.

Aren't 100gb blurays already on the market for recording purposes?

Granted no format war needed, Toshiba is apparently pushing 4K bluray as well. There is a considerable amount of content on the market for 4K already by all major studios as they have done 4K masters for numerous films for thier blurays. This is easily already in the 300-500 title range. Spare me the studios won't release their pristine 4K masters argument as it is horrendously invalid. Studios since 2006 have been releasing thier pristine 2K studio masters in many films where only a 2K DI exists. This applies to many films from 2000-2010. The copy you have at home is the identical pristine master they have at the studio. Penton-man has already totally derailed that argument.

The real question remains just how much of an upgrade it will be? Seeing Star Wars 77 on bluray I wasn't exactly blown away. The dvd was stunning but then again it came from an HD master! If the bluray came from a 4K master I am sure it would have stunned as well. IMO 4K masters used on bluray easily outshine thier 2K or HD counterparts. Very few 4K blurays will come from a 6K or 8K master. It will be a niche format much like laserdisc with glasses free HD and the best PQ available I am sure I will jump on the bandwagon.

Anamorphic 21:9 4K bluray won't happen as it simply won't deliver 5,120 pixels across the screen. Now I must say I would prefer it's native 17:9 aspect ratio similiar to the current projectors on the market, in cinemas and on the 152 in. Panasonic. It simply works better for film and many films are simply cropped from 2K to 1.9K. The native aspect ratio would avoid all that and offer a little wider picture which would be new and cool.

I thought RED were planning some 4k media?

[superapplekid]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Not even close. 4k is only 4x as high as 1080p. Even without a new codec only 200 gigs would be nessesary

Unless you wanted to use current codecs but lower the amount of compression. PQ is still compressed on bluray, with occasional (albeit rare) noticeable artifacts. Also, color depth could be improved, or so I hear...

[vargo]

Originally Posted by superapplekid

Unless you wanted to use current codecs but lower the amount of compression. PQ is still compressed on bluray, with occasional (albeit rare) noticeable artifacts. Also, color depth could be improved, or so I hear...

Colour depth will be likely be upped to 10-bit. And counter-intuitively, when you do this it requires less bitrate, not more.

[lillsowi]

Our 2K films at the cinema is about 120GB each, but I believe that that's uncompressed..

[Exile]

Originally Posted by lillsowi

Our 2K films at the cinema is about 120GB each, but I believe that that's uncompressed..

uncompressed would be like 3 terabytes