3D/2D Displays that support 3D & 2D & 24p at multiplies of the original frame rate

[HDTV1080P]

Even though all the reviews online for every Panasonic flat panel I have read mentions that they only support 1080P/60 and no 1080P/24 input, the reality is that reviews take sometimes several months to appear after a new product is released.. I was not aware of the Panasonic professional series for the US market until I did some more in depth research. The Panasonic brochure for the TH-103PF9UK, TH-65PF9UK, and TH-50PF9UK mention 1080P 24p and 24sf signal compatibility but does not mention how the signal is displayed on the screen.

The 103 inch Panasonic for $70,000 looks like a nice display but unless someone can provide me with a professional review link that shows me that this model or other models handles 1080P/24 at multiplies of the original frame I am not going to add them to the list. If Panasonic was smart they would do what Pioneer does and mention buzz words like 48HZ, 72HZ, 3:3 pulldown, right in the specs. So far Pioneer is the only company that clearly mentions the buzz words.

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelList?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&catGroupId =14624&sur fModel=TH-50PF9UK


Here is a example of a display that clearly mentions the true 1080P/24 refresh rate

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/477134713PRO-150FD.pdf
quote
"Advanced PureCinema with 3:3 Pulldown (72Hz) for accurate playback of film content"

[dfiler]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Thanks for the info. Yes hopefully some BLU-RAY and dual format players will have a firmware update to allow 1080P/24 up conversion. This would be a nice feature to add. In theory the PS3 and all other players that currently output 1080P/24 could offer such a feature with a simple software upgrade. Once one experiences BLU-RAY they usually do not watch as many DVD’s as they use too. Still it would be nice to have that feature when playing a DVD. I still have some Laserdisc movies I have not upgraded to BLU-RAY or DVD since the movie has not been released in those formats yet and might never be.

Good point about the PS3 being theoretically upgradeable to support 24fps DVD playback. (If it doesn't already, honestly don't know)

Looks like one of the displays on the list will be in my near future, along with a PS3. This will at least get me native frame rate on blu-ray movies. If I can't get DVDs to play at 24fps on the PS3, I might end up getting one of the cheap HD-DVD players to use just for SD-DVD playback. I've confirmed that a few of them do provide this functionality. And if all else fails, running linux on the PS3 makes it possible to play SD-DVDs at 24fps.

Thanks for maintaining this list of displays! The industry seems surprisingly uninterested in providing native frame rate support for movies and filmed TV shows. And finding accurate information has been difficult.

What is surprising is that the technology is already there in some displays, but just not configured properly. And it seems like an easily understood and marketable feature to joe-six-pack. Stores could be upselling people on "Movie Frame Rate Support". "Watch your DVD and blu-ray movies at the original 24 frames per second. No more jerky motion from frame rate conversion."

I'm guessing that in a few years, nearly all displays will do both 24 and 30 frames per second properly. But the wait is killing me!

[HeavyHitter]

Note the Sony A3000 SXRD series refreshes at 120hz....not 96hz which is incorrectly stated on the first page.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Note the Sony A3000 SXRD series refreshes at 120hz....not 96hz which is incorrectly stated on the first page.

The refresh rate of 96HZ on the first page is correct according to this professional review link
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=464474&postcount=301

The Sony SXRD KDS-60A3000, KDS-55A3000, and KDS-50A3000 only refresh at 120HZ when a 60fps source is applied. When a 1080P/24 signal is applied the image is refreshed at 96HZ.

[HDTV1080P]

Samsung Plasma’s still are displaying 1080P/24 on the screen at 60HZ using a 3:2 pulldown process and will not be added to the list

Samsung FP-T5884 Plasma TV info

Quote
“Unfortunately, the set converts 1080p/24 to 60Hz for display by applying 3:2 pulldown, eliminating the benefit of having a 1080p/24 source. There aren't many plasmas (or other displays) that show 1080p/24 correctly—that is, at a multiple of 24Hz, which results in smoother motion from film-based content.”

http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/208sam884/

[BettiePage]

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/j/i/183....html?cid=5482

Mitsubishi's website doesnt say much but if you click on the product specs...

http://download.jazel.net/misc/filec...cSheet_v12.pdf

the spec sheet says input/output (digital) 1080p (24Hz, 30Hz, 60Hz)

[thebluemax]

Originally Posted by andytoh

According to
http://www.abtelectronics.com/product/28198.html
the Samsung 61" LED DLP is powered by 3:2 pull-down. Thus the answer is no. thebluemax is incorrect/misinformed about his TV.

THANKS FOR THE CORRECT INFO-JUST READ THIS TODAY, SO I SUPPOSE I WILL OUTPUT AT 1080P-CORRECT??

[thebluemax]

Originally Posted by jadafa

How did you get your 61" model to work? I have the 56" model and mine does not accept 24Hz signals at all.

MINE WORKS AT 1080/24P-SAMSUNG DLP-HL-S6187W?????

IS IT BETTER TO OUTPUT AT 1080/24P OR JUST 1080P? I'M CONFUSED

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by BettiePage

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/j/i/183....html?cid=5482

Mitsubishi's website doesnt say much but if you click on the product specs...

http://download.jazel.net/misc/filec...cSheet_v12.pdf

the spec sheet says input/output (digital) 1080p (24Hz, 30Hz, 60Hz)

All of the Mitsubishi 144 and 244 series displays do not use the multiplies of the original frame method to display 1080P/24 but use a 3:2 pulldown method..

Quote

“Mitsubishi calls this "Smooth120Hz," and it's available only on the company's 144- and 244-series sets. It doubles video's standard 60Hz frame rate to 120Hz, which is claimed to produce less motion blur (a particular weakness of LCD flat panel displays). The added frame is not simply repeated, but interpolated using a Mitsubishi-developed algorithm.”

“The set will also accept and display a 1080p/24 source, such ad Blu-ray or HD DVD. However, rather than the optimum technique of upconverting 1080p/24 to 1080p/120 directly, to match the native 120Hz frame rate of the set, 1080p/24 inputs are first converted to 1080p/60 by adding 3/2 pulldown. The set then handles the signal as it would any 1080p/60 input by frame-doubling it to1080p/120. “
Source for the quote and the review of one of the 144 series displays can be found at this link
http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/1107mits46144/

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by thebluemax

MINE WORKS AT 1080/24P-SAMSUNG DLP-HL-S6187W?????

IS IT BETTER TO OUTPUT AT 1080/24P OR JUST 1080P? I'M CONFUSED

All the Samsungs reviewed so far have shown that Samsung is using a 3:2 pullldown technique on all of their flat panel and rear projectors. There is no benefit to 1080P/24 if a 3:2 pulldown process is used.
In order for you to watch BLU-RAY discs on your display they need to be converted to 60HZ by either the player or the Samsung display. You most likely will not see any difference in picture quality between 1080P/24 and 1080P/60. You should place your BLU-RAY player on 1080P/60 and see if it offers a better picture then 1080P/24, if it does then the BLU-RAY player is doing a better job of converting to 60HZ then the display does. Now if it appears the BLU-RAY player has a better picture quality at 1080P/24 then that means your display does a better job of converting to 60HZ.
Sorry for all the confusion, I wish the manufactories would end the confusion and do what Pioneer does and make every display that has a 1080P/24 input refresh the image on the screen at multiplies of 24fps to make the image look more like film.

[HDTV1080P]

The Pioneer Elite 60 inch Kuro for $7500 list price has a better picture quality compared to the $18,000 65 inch Fujitsu Plasma


Quote
“Both Geoffrey and I agree that, unfortunately for the Fujitsu, the latest Pioneer Elite KURO plasmas have raised the bar significantly in that important department. Nighttime fireworks shots and staged interior scenes with dark objects against black backgrounds reveal that the Fujitsu's black level never quite gets to the full blacks that the more recent and superior KURO plasmas achieve.”

Source of quote
http://hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/208fuj65ft/

The March 2008 Widescreen Review magazine info on the Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-150FD

Quote from page 47 issue 129 (Summary)
“With calibration, the PRO-150FD measures better and looks better than any other panel or fixed-pixel RPTV available at this time.”

Pioneer Ninth Generation prototype Plasma comments quote from Widescreen Review March 2008 issue 129 page 78

“Pioneer’s statement ninth-generation plasma demonstration was both stunning and incontrovertible.” “…no one could deny that what they were seeing in the Pioneer KURO Theater was the real deal. Extraordinary contrast ratio (or not) cannot be done with smoke and mirrors (no DLP pun intended). No single metric is more important to laymen assessing image quality than contrast ratio, and nothing boosts (real) contrast ratio like “inky” black levels. Pioneer can now claim the “inkiest.” “This was truly a gusty move on the part of Pioneer. I’m pretty sure the adjacent panels were being used as comparisons in the demo were current-generation KUROs, arguably the best PDPs already on the street. To make them look “bad” by comparison to something that is many months away from being sellable, is a bold (and maybe questionable) strategy, but if it’s buzz they were after, it’s buzz they got.”
“To be clear, this was a “concept” panel, probably not to be offered to consumers until deep into 2009. Still, those who saw it will likely deem it well worth the wait.”

Also in the same issue it mentions on page 78 that low cost under $10,000 three-chip DLP front projectors are coming soon.

[Grisle]

Has anyone heard whether or not the new Panasonic TH-50PZ85U does true 24p? I'd love to buy the Pioneer 5010 or even the newer models, but the 85U retails at $2,700 which is a really great price. Can someone explain what exactly the 2:3 pulldown does?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Grisle

Has anyone heard whether or not the new Panasonic TH-50PZ85U does true 24p? I'd love to buy the Pioneer 5010 or even the newer models, but the 85U retails at $2,700 which is a really great price. Can someone explain what exactly the 2:3 pulldown does?

Here is a link that goes into details about the 2:3 pulldown process.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

I am keeping a eye on the new Panasonics being released this year to see how they handle the 1080P/24 signal. Hopefully in the future some Panasonics will be on the list.

[HDTV1080P]

Information on how the new Panasonic 85U, 800U, and 850U handles 1080P/24 still remains unclear.

As soon as I read a review or a official statement from Panasonic that these displays bypass the 3:2 pulldown process when a 1080P/24 signal is applied I will add them to the list.

Quote
“24p support - the details are still unclear if this means the television changes the refresh rate to match content that comes in at 24 frames per second, or if it just means the TV can accept 24FPS content and does a conversion. As of January 2008 the only consumer grade Plasma with native 24p support is the Pioneer 5080HD. Most likely this feature simply does a conversion from 24FPS to the set's native 60Hz.”

http://www.productwiki.com/panasonic-viera-th-46pz85u

[HDTV1080P]

The new Sony VPL-VW40 Front Projector has been added to the list

According to one of my sources all SXRD Sony’s that have a 1080P/24 input including the new Sony VPL-VW40 refresh 24fps at multiplies of the original frame. The Sony VPL-VW40 refreshes 1080P/24 at 96HZ and has been added to the list. This is a bargain priced projector for $2,999.99. Of course for $2000 more one can get the VPL-VW60 that has better contrast ratio of 35:000:1 versus the VPL-VW40 which has 15,000:1 contrast ratio. I wish Sony and other companies would just use the ANSI contrast ratio standard. Still for $2,999.99 this is a bargain projector for someone looking to spend around $3,000.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langI d=-1&productId=8198552921665307855

[thebluemax]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

All the Samsungs reviewed so far have shown that Samsung is using a 3:2 pullldown technique on all of their flat panel and rear projectors. There is no benefit to 1080P/24 if a 3:2 pulldown process is used.
In order for you to watch BLU-RAY discs on your display they need to be converted to 60HZ by either the player or the Samsung display. You most likely will not see any difference in picture quality between 1080P/24 and 1080P/60. You should place your BLU-RAY player on 1080P/60 and see if it offers a better picture then 1080P/24, if it does then the BLU-RAY player is doing a better job of converting to 60HZ then the display does. Now if it appears the BLU-RAY player has a better picture quality at 1080P/24 then that means your display does a better job of converting to 60HZ.
Sorry for all the confusion, I wish the manufactories would end the confusion and do what Pioneer does and make every display that has a 1080P/24 input refresh the image on the screen at multiplies of 24fps to make the image look more like film.

Appreciate the information, I think I should output at 1080p because when I output at 1080/24p I get a green flash whenever the output changes. I have the BDP-S1 and Samsung DLP.

[CassilineKnight]

Hey what about those two tvs I just listed? Are they capable of doing this 1080p24 stuff that you guys are talking about?

They're LCD HDTV's that were released last year and apparently they're the latest from Samsung right? I've been reading up on them on various websites and the reviews seem really positive.

I would so love to have this tv and I'm saving up money for it and my Profile 2.0 Player. But I want to make sure it has everything I need for High Definition TV viewing and is capable of doing everything I need for gaming/watching HD movies.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by CassilineKnight

Hey what about those two tvs I just listed? Are they capable of doing this 1080p24 stuff that you guys are talking about?

They're LCD HDTV's that were released last year and apparently they're the latest from Samsung right? I've been reading up on them on various websites and the reviews seem really positive.

I would so love to have this tv and I'm saving up money for it and my Profile 2.0 Player. But I want to make sure it has everything I need for High Definition TV viewing and is capable of doing everything I need for gaming/watching HD movies.

The LN-T4681F refreshes 1080P/24 at 60HZ. The Samsung LN-T4671F refreshes images on the screen at 120HZ and it may use a 3:2 pulldown technique when 1080P/24 signal is applied (waiting for a review to know for sure).
The Samsungs are ok displays for watching HDTV from cable, satellite, or over the air broadcasts but if you are planning on buying a new 1080P display and think that you may spend many hours watching BLU-RAY’s then a Pioneer Plasma or Sony LCD flat panel that are located on the list would give you the full quality of the BLU-RAY format.

[HDTV1080P]

The Epson Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080UB has been removed from the list since it is 60HZ when 1080P/24 is applied

The Epson Powerlite Pro Cinema was originally added to the list since the November 2007 Widescreen review magazine on pages 14-21 mentioned that this new projector refreshed 1080P/24 material at 48HZ.
The reality is according to two different reliable sources this projector displays 1080P/24 material at 60HZ. I wish I would have caught this earlier, I strongly recommend one does their own research since the list is not 100% accurate.

Quote
“The Epson will accept 1080p/24 sources, but according to Epson only displays at 1080p/60. Displays that can output 1080p/24 signals at 48Hz, 72Hz or 96Hz can provide a subtly smoother image by eliminating the "judder" associated with the 3/2 pulldown required to output film's 24p native images at 60Hz.”
http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/607epsonprocin/

Second source is the Perfect Vision magazine for the Powerlite Home Cinema
Page 36 of the October 2007 Perfect Vision magazine also confirms that 1080P/24 is displayed at 60HZ.
http://www.avguide.com/products/product-4001/

Quote
“Differences between Pro 1080 and Home 1080
This review focuses on the Pro Cinema 1080 UB and includes notes on the Home Cinema 1080 UB. For all practical purposes, these are the same physical projector internally. But they are packaged, priced, and distributed differently. We have used a sample of the Pro version for this review. The actual differences between the Pro Cinema 1080 UB and the Home Cinema 1080 UB are as follows:
• The Pro version is black, and the Home version is white.
• The Pro is priced at $3,999.99
• The Home is $2,999.99
• The Pro comes with a ceiling mount and spare lamp, whereas the Home does not.
• The Pro has a 3-year warranty, and the Home is 2 years.
• The Pro model features an Imaging Science Foundation (ISF) certification.
• The Pro model is sold by resellers who are trained to install, calibrate, and support the unit. The Home model is sold by resellers who typically do not offer this level of support.”
http://www.projectorcentral.com/epson_cinema_1080_ub_review.htm

[CassilineKnight]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The LN-T4681F refreshes 1080P/24 at 60HZ. The Samsung LN-T4671F refreshes images on the screen at 120HZ and it may use a 3:2 pulldown technique when 1080P/24 signal is applied (waiting for a review to know for sure).
The Samsungs are ok displays for watching HDTV from cable, satellite, or over the air broadcasts but if you are planning on buying a new 1080P display and think that you may spend many hours watching BLU-RAY’s then a Pioneer Plasma or Sony LCD flat panel that are located on the list would give you the full quality of the BLU-RAY format.

Hmmm thanks for the answer...

What about future HDTV's that will be coming out this summer or fall? Anyword on just how good they will be when it comes to all this stuff and Bluray?