120Hz, 240Hz - what's the big deal??

[kevinokev]

I've recently been introduced to the AMP technology in the Samsungs. I do like how it increased detail and depth in most material, but I can't seem to get past the documentary video feel that results.

Generally, I simply leave it off for the BD input and have it on medium for my xbox 360 and Dish HD DVR inputs.

It seems that broadcast HD isn't nearly as problematic as the 24fps BD material.

I DO like from time to time trying out the Demo option which is a split screen with the AMP option turned on right next to the normal "un-altered version" .
A good title to see just how much it alters the footage is Outbreak on BD. The first scene with the long steadycam shot through the BIO-HAZARD facility really shows the potential of the technology. Cheers.

[Realist01]

See, I believe I am the only one who has their Sammy at a Backlight of 6 or 7. I hate how it looks at about a 4. It washes all the detail out IMO. Maybe I am missing something. I have everything custom set too, but I can't seem to get past the backlight of being anything lower than a 6 or 7. I also have my video type at Cool 1. I just feel it makes the whites POP. Is there something I might be doing wrong? I appreciate any feedback.

[dereksworl]

Originally Posted by Realist01

See, I believe I am the only one who has their Sammy at a Backlight of 6 or 7. I hate how it looks at about a 4. It washes all the detail out IMO. Maybe I am missing something. I have everything custom set too, but I can't seem to get past the backlight of being anything lower than a 6 or 7. I also have my video type at Cool 1. I just feel it makes the whites POP. Is there something I might be doing wrong? I appreciate any feedback.

With your backlight set to anything above 5 and your color temp set to cool, you blacks most likely look kinda gray in comparison to a set with deep black level. getting the black level it's blackest will make the picture "pop" a lot more than trying to get the white level it's whitest.

[dereksworl]

There is an excellent scene in the Transformers 2 trailer i used test my black levels. it is a part with very bright explosion. and when i paused it when the explosion was its brightest the aspect bars(aka black bars) looked super faded/washed. they didnt even look black. after calibrated, that same scene the aspect bars are still very nice and black.

[Realist01]

I'm going to have to mess around with this thing again. Thanks.

[ezcheese1]

i had the interesting experience of going to the sony store to compare 120hz with 60hz. i looked at a v5100 next to a s5100, and an s5100 next to an xbr9. i'm not sure that i could tell any difference between the xbr and s-series, but i'm not sure if it was blu-ray.

what disturbed me was what happened when i asked the sales person to turn off the motion flow on the v-series. there was some sort of blatant phase issue where portions of the screen where cascading vertically. i'm not sure if it was a 50p blu-ray disk or 24p....

i would guess that 24p would look optimum at 24hz refresh rate on an LCD and no different at 120hz (24 x 5 = 120). i don't know if there is a variable rate on the t.v. for 50 hz material, but if it was 50hz, it looked fine on the 60 hz.

i wonder if the technology is smart enough for the refresh rate to sync to the frame rate. i would think so, but then why make a higher refresh rate (the light source stays on unless they show a black frame for some reason i don't understand)????

the only reason i'm considering going with a higher rate, is because people seem so concerned about flicker that they are making televisions with artificial production to cure it. i wonder if they will change production standards AND the blu-ray specification soon. of course, most bdps are only 50hz (as far as i know)..... anybody care to chime in on any of this?

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by ezcheese1

...
i would guess that 24p would look optimum at 24hz refresh rate on an LCD and no different at 120hz (24 x 5 = 120). i don't know if there is a variable rate on the t.v. for 50 hz material, but if it was 50hz, it looked fine on the 60 hz.

i wonder if the technology is smart enough for the refresh rate to sync to the frame rate. i would think so, but then why make a higher refresh rate (the light source stays on unless they show a black frame for some reason i don't understand)????

the only reason i'm considering going with a higher rate, is because people seem so concerned about flicker that they are making televisions with artificial production to cure it. i wonder if they will change production standards AND the blu-ray specification soon. of course, most bdps are only 50hz (as far as i know)..... anybody care to chime in on any of this?

Movie frame rate is set to 24Hz and movies were refreshed at 24Hz, I think, in the early days of cinema. Many people found that 24Hz refresh as flickery, therefore, movie projector refresh rate was increased to 48 or 72 Hz to remove flicker. This means that the image frame is changed every 1/24th of second while flashing the same frame 2 or 3 times every 1/24th of second to remove perceivable flicker.

So, digital projectors or flat panel displays do not refresh at 24Hz although the frame rate is 24Hz. If the digital display refresh is limited to 60 or 50 Hz, the display will map 24 fps to 50 or 60 Hz refresh rate which would introduce perceivable judder since 50 or 60 is not an exact multiple of 24 (which is the frame rate) – perceivable judder is due to a characteristic of the human eye/brain as experienced by many people.

The newer digital displays can refresh at 96, 120 or 240Hz rates which are multiples of 24. I do not expect to see a significant difference between 96 and 120. It is unlikely that anyone would notice any improvement between 120 and 240 Hz since these rates exceed the limits of the human eye.

Since 24p is a part of the blu-ray standard, I expect for all blu-ray players to have the capability to output at 24 Hz. The display will them map the 24Hz frame rate to the best native refresh rate of the display (which could be 50, 60, 96, 100, 120 or 240 Hz).

The motion enhancement is another complexity that the display is trying to be smart and interpolate in-between frames (and inserting frames with different intensity) instead of flashing the same frame multiple times. According to many people, this attempt has failed miserably in many instances.