81:19 Nielsen/VideoScan Weekly Sales Numbers

[blu2]

Originally Posted by OokieSpookie

I have watched exclusive after exclusive slip away from the PS3 on the gaming side because of the "ha ha ha they can never beat us, it doesn't matter" attitude.
I love Sony, I have been on the front lines for Sony many many years and will be for many more.
Something has to be done even if it is just for show.

Fortuneatly, there's more than just Sony backing Blu Ray.

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by LeoneFan

In October I was being really patient thinking that once November came around and the holidays were in full swing that we'll see something from the BDA. I was wrong, it's almost Thanksgiving and there is still nothing. They just don't care. I think at this point they are happy just to break even on R&D costs and call it quits. Anyways, I'm not buying another Blu-ray disc until CES2008 because at this point it's like flushing money down the toilet.

This has been your stance in the last couple of months. We got it. You don't have to remind us how pessimistic you are. Seriously.

In other news, if you are not yet broke from the BOGO sales, keep buying the stuff you want to buy this Tuesday - like Hairspray, for example.


fuad

[cawgijoe]

I will buy Hairspray and maybe a Die Hard.......I may even pick up Gods and Generals tomorrow even though the reviews were not that good......

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by LeoneFan

In October I was being really patient thinking that once November came around and the holidays were in full swing that we'll see something from the BDA. I was wrong, it's almost Thanksgiving and there is still nothing.

Its not even Thanksgiving yet and you're complaining?? If these BOGO sales werent enough, Black Friday is coming up....I guess you were hoping for nothing short of a $99 blu-ray player?!?!

[Steverhcp02]

Standalones down to $350 and keep pushing software sales, BD will be in FINE shape. The PS3 will SURGE with games coming out, with where HDM is at we dont even need people to buy a bunch of BD's with PS3's....heck, if half of them buy 1 or 2 we are looking at close to 1.5 million more BD's sold in one month.

I know for me, im getting amazon giftcards from both sides of my family...so i plan on dropping a good 400-500 right after xmas on BD's.

Id be willing to bet there are PLENTY of people who will be doing the same this holiday.

[OokieSpookie]

Originally Posted by blu2

Fortuneatly, there's more than just Sony backing Blu Ray.

That is what keeps me sane.....mostly sane.

[WarCraft]

Originally Posted by OokieSpookie

I have watched exclusive after exclusive slip away from the PS3 on the gaming side because of the "ha ha ha they can never beat us, it doesn't matter" attitude.
I love Sony, I have been on the front lines for Sony many many years and will be for many more.
Something has to be done even if it is just for show.

Unless they provide credentials, it is pathetic to see comments like this. These people think they are any better than the think tanks that Sony, Disney or the BDA have to run their business.

Well Ookie or Leone, if you really think that YOU really need for this war to win or end and you think you are any better than the people that run the BDA -- please dont bore us and just go apply there for a job. And when you are there then (if you ever get hired) show them how things should be run.

Out

[Innerloop]

Originally Posted by cawgijoe

We are all looking at the battle from the Blu-Ray side. Let's take a look from the Red side and see what we have......Blu-Ray SW sales are leading at least 2:1.......HD DUD has not one a single week this year and is currently losing 65 to 35........the A2 had to be cleared off the shelves in a political fire sale move to make room for the A3.......very few exclusive good releases are coming out in HD DUD.....stores have increased Blu shelf space.......Target is now demoing Blu on an end cap.......the world is mostly Blu.....and so far Toshiba is the only make of HD DUD players.........I'm sure I've missed a point or two, but if I was a sole owner of an Hd DUD player, I would not be very happy and probably reluctant to spend my money.....

Well, if you are REALLY trying to look at the world from their POV, you didn't do a very good job. You sound like a BD supporter trying to sound like an HD DVD supporter.

Let's try again:

HD-DVD came within 2% of winning a week with Transformers
Studio exclusivity has been moving in the direction of HD-DVD
WalMart sold 90k players in a single week
Some stores have increased their display space for HD-DVD
There are big new releases like Bourne still to come in 2007
TL51 discs are coming that will negate the BD size advantage
HD-DVD has PiP today in all players
HD-DVD has internet features in all players
BD users will get frustrated by all the different profiles
HD DVD player prices are lower than BD so they will sell more

There, That is what they are thinking. Not saying I agree with it, but let's at least be intellectually honest about what their position is, right?

[Steverhcp02]

Originally Posted by OokieSpookie

That is what keeps me sane.....mostly sane.

exactly, but after paramount i have no confidence in "logic" in this war, anymore.

If im WB, i cant "logically" exclusively support a format losing in sales with players priced below the "threshold" and with a CE exclusively sandbagging anyone from joining in....it just doesnt make sense, at all, by any means......but as i mentioned, logic has gone out the window IMO, so thats why i have no confidence.

Before, i could say, hey we have CE support, we have Studio support and we have sales....then Paramount drops it? sorry, but this thing is volatile and there really is nothing we can do anymore.....ill buy BD's, but there is a little bit that eats at me with the instability of suitcases of money having more of an outcome than logic, specs, sales and fair trade.

[OokieSpookie]

Originally Posted by WarCraft

Unless they provide credentials, it is pathetic to see comments like this. These people think they are any better than the think tanks that Sony, Disney or the BDA have to run their business.

Well Ookie or Leone, if you really think that YOU really need for this war to win or end and you think you are any better than the people that run the BDA -- please dont bore us and just go apply there for a job. And when you are there then (if you ever get hired) show them how things should be run.

Out

Only a fool follows without question.

[SingingTheBlues]

Originally Posted by OokieSpookie

Excellent response, thank you.
It made no sense that it would be looking for ram at all.

And doesn't each cell have its own dedicated 256k of ram, anyway?

The cell processor uses ram differently than a computer does.

[OokieSpookie]

Originally Posted by SingingTheBlues

And doesn't each cell have its own dedicated 256k of ram, anyway?

The cell processor uses ram differently than a computer does.

Unfortunately no.
The PS3 only has 256 ram, and 256 shared for the GPU as well as a small bit for the OS.
Would be nice.

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by Innerloop

Well, if you are REALLY trying to look at the world from their POV, you didn't do a very good job. You sound like a BD supporter trying to sound like an HD DVD supporter.

Let's try again:

HD-DVD came within 2% of winning a week with Transformers
Studio exclusivity has been moving in the direction of HD-DVD
WalMart sold 90k players in a single week
Some stores have increased their display space for HD-DVD
There are big new releases like Bourne still to come in 2007
TL51 discs are coming that will negate the BD size advantage
HD-DVD has PiP today in all players
HD-DVD has internet features in all players
BD users will get frustrated by all the different profiles
HD DVD player prices are lower than BD so they will sell more

There, That is what they are thinking. Not saying I agree with it, but let's at least be intellectually honest about what their position is, right?

I understand that you are playing the devil's advocate, but there are easy facts about all these that debunk those (and yes I realize you are trying to translate their pov. Just saying there are easy answers when you see those).

"HD-DVD came within 2% of winning a week with Transformers"
That was their best shot for the entire year, and they stil could'nt even manage a draw.

"Studio exclusivity has been moving in the direction of HD-DVD"
Actually they had -1- major move in their direction. Since then, European studios that used to be HD DVD only have moved neutral toward Blu Ray.

"WalMart sold 90k players in a single week"
At the price of a totally slashed price, so much under construction cost that the sale was banned in 4 states. The very definition of a "Fire Sale".
On top of that, those 90k player sold failed to generate enough software sales to even give then anything better than a 65:35 the following week.

"Some stores have increased their display space for HD-DVD"
Far more reports come from Stores increasing their Blu Ray space vs HD DVD. Target and Blockbuster have made major anouncmeent toward Blu Ray support.

"There are big new releases like Bourne still to come in 2007"
Uh.. like what ? Shrek is terrible. What's left? That is vs The Simpsons, Die Hard trilogy / 4, Pirates of The Carribeans AWE, and to stop one OF HD DVDs last few pretnetions at "superior features" the PiP movies (profile 1.1) arrive within a month/ onth 1/2 with Resident Evil: Extinction and Sunshine.

"TL51 discs are coming that will negate the BD size advantage"
Keep showing like the vaporware it is. If the TL-51 ever shows up, the BD 100 won't be far behind, or will already be here, thus negating any cathing up in that area.

"HD-DVD has PiP today in all players"
Because Pip is such a huge feature amirite?
Coming within a month/month 1/2, like I said. the titles are getting ready, and given that it was the last thing that Warner was waiting for to release its big ones (Matrix and co), that might give the BD a little extra push actually.

"HD-DVD has internet features in all players"
Coming as well, but is it really what your average person wants, or just being able to watch a movie with the best player possible ?

"BD users will get frustrated by all the different profiles"
I bet that "profile" is a non issue for 99.9% of your average joe.
Either you will have an older player non bonus view, or a newer with bonus view.
The market (by Toshiba's own admission) beign so small at this point, people buying a player from now on will have bonus view in any case.

"HD DVD player prices are lower than BD so they will sell more"
PS3's have easily outbalanced the price effect since more than a year now.
and with the new $399 price, and a new generation of BR players coming, that can only get better

[WarCraft]

Originally Posted by OokieSpookie

Only a fool follows without question.

Duh -- how many times have these been discussed in this forum? And how many times have been proven that its not an issue. Even PMan had said that not because the BDA is quiet or looks like it doesnt do anything -- they are!

Not another "oh noes the sky is falling" ... please use the search function next time.

Out

[Terjyn]

Originally Posted by OokieSpookie

I have watched exclusive after exclusive slip away from the PS3 on the gaming side because of the "ha ha ha they can never beat us, it doesn't matter" attitude.
I love Sony, I have been on the front lines for Sony many many years and will be for many more.
Something has to be done even if it is just for show.

Why is it that when Sony loses an exclusive it's front page news but when the 360 does it's barely mentioned?

Sony isn't losing exclusives because of the "ha ha ha they can never beat us, it doesn't matter" attitude. They are losing exclusives because that's where the market is heading. A company only really gets exclusives when it dominates, otherwise they will be few and far between...and in this gen of consoles domination looks unlikely. The Wii has numbers but atypical buyers, the PS3 has power but price and a non-game format war to deal with, and the 360 has Microsoft, both the good and the bad.

This is wholly different than the BDA.

Every move that HD-DVD has made has been a dud, or responded to by the BDA.

HD-DVD has had more duds than they have had successful ideas. Yet you people think the BDA should respond instantly to every threat no matter how small.

You never have ideas as to what they should do, but by god they should do something.

This is precisely what Toshiba *wants* them to do. Throw away money responding to insignificant threats.

The BDA has publicly stated that Paramount hit them out of the blue, they had no idea that Paramount was for sale.

Everything else the HD-DVD consortium has done, which actually had significance, has been responded to.

The BDA is so far ahead, they actually have the capability to see the impact of a threat before jumping on it. HD-DVD has no such luxury.

[Innerloop]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

I understand that you are playing the devil's advocate, but there are easy facts about all these that debunk those (and yes I realize you are trying to translate their pov. Just saying there are easy answers when you see those).

I agree 100% - they are self-deluded. But its easy for both sides to selectively pay attention to evidence that supports that cause and ignore evidence that contraidicts it. Without getting too political, there have been similar instances of this within our own government, yes?

I'm not sure what the real point of the exercise of "thinking like an HD-DVD supporter" was exactly, but after reading all these threads, it just didn't seem like the OP did a fair job of summarizing their positions.

Maybe a more interesting questions is what evidence are WE ignoring (at our peril) because it doesn't fit our world view? Are we blind to something major as they often seem to be?

Personally, I don't think so. I think all the verifiable facts are in our favor; sales, support, technology, titles, etc. That's pretty much the ballgame. Everything but cost, honestly.

I do think in total honesty you have to be VERY selective in what you see and believe as an HD-DVD supporter, which is probably why those discussions become so shrill so fast.

[marzetta7]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

I understand that you are playing the devil's advocate, but there are easy facts about all these that debunk those (and yes I realize you are trying to translate their pov. Just saying there are easy answers when you see those).

"HD-DVD came within 2% of winning a week with Transformers"
That was their best shot for the entire year, and they stil could'nt even manage a draw.

"Studio exclusivity has been moving in the direction of HD-DVD"
Actually they had -1- major move in their direction. Since then, European studios that used to be HD DVD only have moved neutral toward Blu Ray.

"WalMart sold 90k players in a single week"
At the price of a totally slashed price, so much under construction cost that the sale was banned in 4 states. The very definition of a "Fire Sale".
On top of that, those 90k player sold failed to generate enough software sales to even give then anything better than a 65:35 the following week.

"Some stores have increased their display space for HD-DVD"
Far more reports come from Stores increasing their Blu Ray space vs HD DVD. Target and Blockbuster have made major anouncmeent toward Blu Ray support.

"There are big new releases like Bourne still to come in 2007"
Uh.. like what ? Shrek is terrible. What's left? That is vs The Simpsons, Die Hard trilogy / 4, Pirates of The Carribeans AWE, and to stop one OF HD DVDs last few pretnetions at "superior features" the PiP movies (profile 1.1) arrive within a month/ onth 1/2 with Resident Evil: Extinction and Sunshine.

"TL51 discs are coming that will negate the BD size advantage"
Keep showing like the vaporware it is. If the TL-51 ever shows up, the BD 100 won't be far behind, or will already be here, thus negating any cathing up in that area.

"HD-DVD has PiP today in all players"
Because Pip is such a huge feature amirite?
Coming within a month/month 1/2, like I said. the titles are getting ready, and given that it was the last thing that Warner was waiting for to release its big ones (Matrix and co), that might give the BD a little extra push actually.

"HD-DVD has internet features in all players"
Coming as well, but is it really what your average person wants, or just being able to watch a movie with the best player possible ?

"BD users will get frustrated by all the different profiles"
I bet that "profile" is a non issue for 99.9% of your average joe.
Either you will have an older player non bonus view, or a newer with bonus view.
The market (by Toshiba's own admission) beign so small at this point, people buying a player from now on will have bonus view in any case.

"HD DVD player prices are lower than BD so they will sell more"
PS3's have easily outbalanced the price effect since more than a year now.
and with the new $399 price, and a new generation of BR players coming, that can only get better

Well stated, thanks for saving me the time!

[Iceman_II]

Originally Posted by LeoneFan

In October I was being really patient thinking that once November came around and the holidays were in full swing that we'll see something from the BDA. I was wrong, it's almost Thanksgiving and there is still nothing. They just don't care. I think at this point they are happy just to break even on R&D costs and call it quits. Anyways, I'm not buying another Blu-ray disc until CES2008 because at this point it's like flushing money down the toilet.

I guess your rant from the insiders thread spread over here... <sigh>

Anyone who thinks that bankrupting CE companies by making them produce players with ZERO profit margins is a good thing in the long run is an idiot... No, I am NOT calling YOU an idiot, I but describe clothes on a rack, who am I to say if they fit.

If CE companies can't turn a profit, they won't make a player... this is straight out of Econ-101. And without CE support, the BDA would be just like Toshiba, which is like a man with both impotence and "performance issues"... no matter how much viagra ($) microsoft gives toshiba to prop them up, they still climaxed too soon, and are already rolling over to go to sleep, while blu ray is building a base for better long term performance and market penitration without being artificially propped up.

[Slapper]

Originally Posted by Iceman_II

I guess your rant from the insiders thread spread over here... <sigh>

Anyone who thinks that bankrupting CE companies by making them produce players with ZERO profit margins is a good thing in the long run is an idiot... No, I am NOT calling YOU an idiot, I but describe clothes on a rack, who am I to say if they fit.

If CE companies can't turn a profit, they won't make a player... this is straight out of Econ-101. And without CE support, the BDA would be just like Toshiba, which is like a man with both impotence and "performance issues"... no matter how much viagra ($) microsoft gives toshiba to prop them up, they still climaxed too soon, and are already rolling over to go to sleep, while blu ray is building a base for better long term performance and market penitration without being artificially propped up.

That last paragraph is nothing short of brilliant. Well done!

[PrinceLH]

Originally Posted by cawgijoe

I will buy Hairspray and maybe a Die Hard.......I may even pick up Gods and Generals tomorrow even though the reviews were not that good......

God's And Generals is not a bad movie. The acting is a bit uneven. Some of the acting is a bit lame, then there is some great acting, especially Stephen Lang, who plays Stonewall Jackson and Robert Duvall, who plays Robert E Lee. Watch for a cameo of Ted Turner as a Confederate Col.