[Show spoiler] Fischer went straight to 3rd level. The scene where he saw his father and realised his father was disappointed he tried to be him and puller the Pinwheel out of the safe.(the idea). They didn't show the kick to the Hotel room but you see him wake in the Van and Eames pulling him out and Eames and Fischer talking
Oh yeah. DUH! BIG DUH!!! LOL! Really tired right now. Just got off a 10 hour shift on 5 hours sleep.
Too tired in fact to continue right now. G'night all!
Last edited by Petra_Kalbrain; 07-19-2010 at 04:43 PM.
[Show spoiler]I didn't care for the ending. First, I figured something like that would happen, which was disappointing. But worst of all, to me, it felt like a cop out, just like (and please forgive me for bringing up this atrocious movie referrence) X-Men: The Last Stand. In that film, the mutants who lost their powers, had no more powers (supposedly). Yet, at the end, Magneto is seen playing chess (ironically with metal pieces) and he tries to control the metal. Some say the piece did move, others did not. In other words, there's the possibility of the entire film's plot contradicting itself. On a similar note, with Inception, some people believe the top keeps spinning, meaning Cobb is still in a dream, whereas others say the slight wobbling means it will eventually topple. I personally think it's still a dream. But, there's no definitive answer, which, to me, feels like nothing more than a cop out by Nolan. However, let me state that there is nothing wrong with that; and, I still love the film. Just my two cents on a near perfect film.
[Show spoiler]Nolan gives you the answer when he shows you that Mal and Cobb only leveled up once
[Show spoiler] any concrete reason why someone in limbo would not have to rise through the other levels of dream
[Show spoiler]With Saito he died in all 3 levels so when he died in Limbo he didn't need a kick all the way up. He shot straight up to the plane. Cobb shot straight up becuase the kicks in the levels killed him so he wouldn't have shot up level to level. (Building fell in Lv. 3, Elevator crash, and Van in water with them drowning. That and the dreamers not dreaming still.
[Show spoiler]if you have to level up each time then who woke saito and cobb up through each consecutive level since everyone else had already awoken
[Show spoiler]Keep in mind that every level down expands time - so if you wake up a minute before someone else, they still have 20 minutes in the level below that, and 400 minutes if they are the level below that. Not everyone woke at the same time, but they surely can wake with the water rushing further into the car.
[Show spoiler]With Saito he died in all 3 levels so when he died in Limbo he didn't need a kick all the way up. He shot straight up to the plane. Cobb shot straight up becuase the kicks in the levels killed him so he wouldn't have shot up level to level. (Building fell in Lv. 3, Elevator crash, and Van in water with them drowning. That and the dreamers not dreaming still.
This is a nice explanation for
[Show spoiler]leveling up through the Fischer heist, but it doesn't get to the truth of the Mal/Cobb experience. The only level in which they killed themselves (and thus kicked out) was the lowest level - which I maintain was not a limbo in the "killed in a dream with heavy sedative" sense, but limbo in the "we've expanded time so far we've lost track" sense
I'm trying to keep up with this thread but, I missed pages 50-68 pretty much...
I'm gonna lay out the movie within these tags. Serious spoiler alert.
[Show spoiler]- Film begins with Cobb and Saito aged in a large room. For some reason they are familiar with eachother.
- Next scene is Cobb and Arthur with Saito trying to obtain a document (or the idea from Saito's mind), Mal disrupts the dream and they fail.
- Cobb, Arthur, Saito, and Nash wake up in mystery room with rioters outside
- Cobb, Arthur, and Nash (with Tadashi, kid) wake up on the train and leave Saito. First hint of Cobb not liking train's is revealed. Cobb, Arthur, and Nash meet a helicopter on the rooftop and are approached by Saito with a job offer to help get Cobb home. One major editing issue or a big tip here is the skyline while he is on the phone with his kids is night, when they get outside it is bright out.
- Cobb, Arthur, Saito, Eames, Ariadne, and Yusuf come together in France in order to plant the idea of doubt within Fischer's head (Saito's rival). They board a plane to Los Angeles with Fischer and thanks to a sedative, are all asleep.
- Layer 1: Cobb, Arthur, Saito, Eames, Ariadne, and Yusuf arrive in a big city, eventually encountering Fischer in a taxi. Saito is shot, but due to the sedative, cannot simply wake up by being killed and risks being stuck in limbo. Everybody prepares to enter another layer by sleeping in the van while Yusuf remains awake to drive the vehicle. Question, where was Fischer asleep in this layer?
- Layer 2: Cobb and Fischer meet in a hotel bar and eventually the rest of the team arrives in this hotel. Gravity within this layer is compromised as the van in layer 1 is being attacked; Saito coughs up blood despite being uninjured in layer 2. Remaining team members prepare for sleep and Arthur stays awake.
- Layer 3: Team arrives at a snowy base where Fischer must meet his father to obtain a secret with regards to his empire. Mal arrives, shoots and kills Fischer before he can proceed. Cobb shoots Mal. Question, how did Ariadne and Cobb arrive in layer 4?
- Layer 4: Cobb, Mal, Ariadne, and Fischer are all within this layer. Cobb reveals to Ariadne how he and Mal went into a deep sleep, lived for 50 years within the dream world and lived like God's. In order to return to reality, they set themselves up to be hit by a train. Mal and Cobb awake in a higher layer but Mal was not convinced they had returned to reality since Cobb planted this idea in her mind by spinning the totem. As a result, she killed herself by jumping out of the window. Ariadne kicks Fischer to his death, thus allowing him to wake from death in layer 3 and continue onward with the mission. Ariadne jumps off the ledge, thus allowing her to return to layer 3. Cobb remains with Mal in layer 4, is stabbed.
- Fischer obtains information from his father in layer 3. The team receives the kick and entire team (excluding Cobb) returns to layer 2 (hotel).
- Team in layer 2 returns to layer 1 on account of the van plummeting to the water. Note, Cobb is still asleep in the van.
- Film returns to the opening scene with Cobb and Saito, aged.
[Show spoiler]This is where my memory is foggiest. Saito okay's the deal to allow Cobb to go home. Cobb arrives at the airport and everybody he has encountered is there, except for Mal and the kids. Cobb's Father picks him up from the airport, they return to Cobb's children's home. Cobb spins his totem on the counter before playing with the kids. Final shot is of the totem spinning, possibly slowing down but this is unknown.
This is partly for me to lay out the scenes in one location and try to map it all out.
[Show spoiler]leveling up through the Fischer heist, but it doesn't get to the truth of the Mal/Cobb experience. The only level in which they killed themselves (and thus kicked out) was the lowest level - which I maintain was not a limbo in the "killed in a dream with heavy sedative" sense, but limbo in the "we've expanded time so far we've lost track" sense
yeah that i don't know. lol.
[Show spoiler]All i saw was the train. They were old when they got hit by the train. When Cobb told Mal that they did get old together they show a flashback with a shot of there hands hold on a railroad track. Guess you have to assume they leveled back up since he planted the idea that the world wasn't real to her to get her to leave.
[Show spoiler]All i saw was the train. They were old when they got hit by the train. When Cobb told Mal that they did get old together they show a flashback with a shot of there hands hold on a railroad track. Guess you have to assume they leveled back up since he planted the idea that the world wasn't real to her to get her to leave.
Right.
[Show spoiler]They leveled back up by laying on the tracks together - but only once. They wake in the apartment immediately following the train incident, but Cobb levels up no further. Mal levels up when she kills herself, hoping to convince Cobb to do the same, but he is certain it's already real, when it isn't.
[Show spoiler]They leveled back up by laying on the tracks together - but only once. They wake in the apartment immediately following the train incident, but Cobb levels up no further. Mal levels up when she kills herself, hoping to convince Cobb to do the same, but he is certain it's already real, when it isn't.
I'm guessing
[Show spoiler]Nolan left it up to the viewer to guess how many levels they were down and how they leveled back up.
Wait now I'm confused. Something had to happen to get them into Limbo right?
[Show spoiler]I addressed it in my post above, but when they're in France the skyline is clearly dark. He calls his children, ends that call then they are called up to the roof when it appears to be dawn. Did time accelerate here or an editing error?
[Show spoiler]I addressed it in my post above, but when they're in France the skyline is clearly dark. He calls his children, ends that call then they are called up to the roof when it appears to be dawn. Did time accelerate here or an editing error?
Maybe an editing error. Guessing there was a scene cut out. and they didn't re-shoot.
[Show spoiler]Nolan left it up to the viewer to guess how many levels they were down and how they leveled back up.
Wait now I'm confused. Something had to happen to get them into Limbo right?
[Show spoiler]I don't think they specifically went to limbo, they just went deep enough that time slowed down to a point where they could grow old together.
[Show spoiler]I don't think they specifically went to limbo, they just went deep enough that time slowed down to a point where they could grow old together.
[Show spoiler]They leveled back up by laying on the tracks together - but only once. They wake in the apartment immediately following the train incident, but Cobb levels up no further. Mal levels up when she kills herself, hoping to convince Cobb to do the same, but he is certain it's already real, when it isn't.
So if I am getting this right,
[Show spoiler]then the entire movie is a dream that Cobb is in. And, none of the other characters are "real," rather they are projections of Cobb's subconcious?
[Show spoiler]the only reason limbo looked like the world that mol and cobb created then would be because it's an uncontrolled dreamspace and shared between the 4 users any of their dreams could be part of that limbo.
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