James Bond: The Ultimate Collection (1962-2012) + Volume Collections

[mcrowell415]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

You could just buy a five-disc Viva Elite case to replace the four-disc one that’s in the set and put NTTD in there with the other Craig films

Thats what I did. The cover doesnt list NTTD but in my mind I know. I dont care about the bonus disc that came with NTTD only the movie. Put the case and extra disc in a box with a bunch of other outdated stuff.

[HonestJohn]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

You could just buy a five-disc Viva Elite case to replace the four-disc one that’s in the set and put NTTD in there with the other Craig films

That's what I did. However, you're going to need a 15mm six-disc case as the Ultimate Collection's Bonus Disc is also thrown in with the Craig Films. Guess I'll have to move my Never Say Never Disc back to it's original case. Makes more sense that way anyway.

Edit: Crap, miscounted. You're still a hub short if you want it all. There is also a Bonus disc for NTTD. So 5 films plus 2 Bonus Discs. 15mm cases max at 6 discs.

Originally Posted by mcrowell415

Thats what I did. The cover doesnt list NTTD but in my mind I know. I dont care about the bonus disc that came with NTTD only the movie. Put the case and extra disc in a box with a bunch of other outdated stuff.

Great minds think alike. Your post wasn't there a minute ago.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by The80s

That would be a goddamn abomination if the James Bond franchise (one of the greatest cinematic franchises of all time) wasn't given the best possible restoration and upgrade for each and every film. They need to meticulously restore the original camera negatives for each film, and then scan it with the best possible digital scanners, to give us the best possible 4K release. Anything less just wouldn't make since for a franchise like this.

I know they already did a restoration way back for the DVDs, but I'm sure they could do even better now that we're 15+ years later.

As for the music feature documentary you mentioned, I hope that will be included in the 60th anniversary set on a disc. That would be awesome.

On one hand, I hope so. I've been wishing for a complete 4K James Bond set since 4Ks were a thing. On the other, dammit, I just bought this set. Wouldn't that freaking figure.

Unfortunately the releases have always been problematic once they started various restoration attempts. The Blu-rays are a giant mixed bag depending on which film you're looking at and only some begin to approach what they should look like. I loathe the Lowry Digital masters with an intense passion and finally getting away from these 100% will be a godsend.

Worst of all is the woeful audio presentation on the original 16 films. Some fare okay such as Moonraker onwards due to originating in Dolby Stereo but even those lack the punch they used to have. (AVTAK most of all. Older releases have a warm low end totally gone from the DVD onwards.) The mono titles are terribly presented. The legacy tracks are at least there but are lossy, noise reduced for the most part and some sound positively flat and tinny compared to older releases. In comparisons to the best releases from the Laserdisc era they sound positively lifeless.
And then you have those putrid, awful, hideous, pathetic, boneheaded, stupid, asinine 5.1 remixes of the mono films they STILL insist on keeping and making the default option. Whatever you do don't ever listen to these wretched remixes for Dr. No through Golden Gun. (Thunderball is the lone exception since the original stereo remix was done by MGM for the 1995 LD and versions of that have appeared since. There they merely slipped in the stereo music master into the dialogue and effects mono stems.)

[Thomas Veil]

Originally Posted by Hatter

Would you buy another blu-ray box just to satisfy your ocd? I'm thinking 4K set or bust (I'm short Spectre and No time to die and Skyfall is a separate white disc inside the 50 box)

Sure, I don't mind blowing money on stuff I want. I was kinda assuming though that the next one would be a 4K set.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by HonestJohn

That's what I did. However, you're going to need a 15mm six-disc case as the Ultimate Collection's Bonus Disc is also thrown in with the Craig Films. Guess I'll have to move my Never Say Never Disc back to it's original case. Makes more sense that way anyway.

Edit: Crap, miscounted. You're still a hub short if you want it all. There is also a Bonus disc for NTTD. So 5 films plus 2 Bonus Discs. 15mm cases max at 6 discs.

Put the cover art for Never Say Never Again into a 3-disc Viva Elite and house the 2 x bonus discs there.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

Worst of all is the woeful audio presentation on the original 16 films. Some fare okay such as Moonraker onwards due to originating in Dolby Stereo but even those lack the punch they used to have. (AVTAK most of all. Older releases have a warm low end totally gone from the DVD onwards.) The mono titles are terribly presented. The legacy tracks are at least there but are lossy, noise reduced for the most part and some sound positively flat and tinny compared to older releases. In comparisons to the best releases from the Laserdisc era they sound positively lifeless.

I knew the 5.1 remixes were shit - they usually are - but this legit shocked me.

https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/search...e%20%281963%29

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by Markgway

I knew the 5.1 remixes were shit - they usually are - but this legit shocked me.

https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/search...e%20%281963%29

Oh it's soooo bad. That's one of the worst examples but all the mono films are that way. I was surprised they did at least throw on the lossy original audio options on the US BDs. I'm happy there is an option for people to get away from the awful remixes but they still don't sound very good. Once you get to the 80's films their "original Dolby surround" labelled tracks sounds pretty good-but their 5.1 mixes were already simple upmixes of those anyway done I'm pretty sure by MGM themselves in the DVD era.
Currently I'm working on trying to identify the absolute best source for each film which does vary a little here and there.

The only original films that truly sound good on BD are the Brosnan era films. The DTS-hdma tracks for all four sound excellent. I'd argue the DTS LDs for Goldeneye and TND edge them out slightly but every release of those two films sounds great anyway. The only differences in the four films are in:
-the early Dolby Goldeneye releases (LD and DVD) having the heavy bass later removed.
-Die Another Day had a discrete rear surround mix on DVD. All that info is still there matrixed in on every other release like TWINE but it would be cool to have the 6.1 discrete version still available.

[James Luckard]

Yep, the 5.1 mixes are atrocious.

They add loads of effects that were not present in the original mixes and the music is dialed WAY, WAY down, under the effects, to suit early 2000s tastes.

The "Gumbold's Safe" sequence in OHMSS is totally ruined.

John Barry's score cue runs through the entire five minute sequence, building in intensity with a rhythmic, repeated motif, and increasing in volume until the suspense is unbearable.

However, in the 5.1 remix, his score is dialed down until it's little more than background noise, and loads of new atmospheric and source effects are added to the mix, completely destroying the tension of the original.

I just rewatched it, and the difference is astonuding.

Sadly, there's some sort of error with the mono track on the OHMSS BD. It drops in volume significantly a couple of times, at specific moments, so much that each time I had to turn the volume WAY up to get the same level. By the end of the movie, I think I had my volume (which I normally keep around 20) on 77. It's infuriating.

[Kylo Ren]

I own the white BD boxset. I plan on watching all of the films with my dad this year for the 60th anniversary but just seeing now about these audio issues. So, what audio mix should I use for each film so we can get the best audio experience watching these movies?

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by Kylo Ren

I own the white BD boxset. I plan on watching all of the films with my dad this year for the 60th anniversary but just seeing now about these audio issues. So, what audio mix should I use for each film so we can get the best audio experience watching these movies?

On the BDs just select the original audio option. This means mono for Dr. No through Golden Gun. As stated they’re not in the greatest quality but will be better than the remixes in every way.
For Spy through Licence to Kill it’s Dolby Stereo surround. On those you can go with the 5.1 if you like as they’re more of simple upmixes without changes. Being a purist I still prefer the matrixed surround. The Brosnan era is all 5.1 default and all sound great so no issues there.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by Kylo Ren

I own the white BD boxset. I plan on watching all of the films with my dad this year for the 60th anniversary but just seeing now about these audio issues. So, what audio mix should I use for each film so we can get the best audio experience watching these movies?

Always use the original audio mix for Bond.

The mono tracks may be muffled but at least they're not as abject as the remixes.

Dr. No > The Man with the Golden Gun = mono

The Spy Who Loved Me > Licence to Kill = stereo/surround

[captainsolo]

To this day I still am trying to figure out what happened to all the alternative audio options rumored on some Bond films. There's evidence of many having magnetic stereo runs in spite of not receiving 70mm blowups. (Just as there are some Bonds that may or may not have gotten a 70mm release outside of the confirmed ones we know of.) John Glen recounted in his autobiography helping rig extra speakers in the premiere theater for OHMSS in stereo. It was never in 70mm so I can only presume it would've been 4 track magnetic stereo.

Spy was mono in the wide release but 4 track stereo in the premiere engagements. This stereo mix first appeared on the letterbox LD release and was bumped up to 5.1 for the final LD and all successive releases. The mono now is the rare version.

My nerdiness also extends to trying to ascertain why the two different mixes of Thunderball exist. Eventually I'd like to prove my theory of an earlier UK and later US mix explanation. As it is I've already found one or two additional differences not in the official DVD clip list.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

To this day I still am trying to figure out what happened to all the alternative audio options rumored on some Bond films. There's evidence of many having magnetic stereo runs in spite of not receiving 70mm blowups. (Just as there are some Bonds that may or may not have gotten a 70mm release outside of the confirmed ones we know of.) John Glen recounted in his autobiography helping rig extra speakers in the premiere theater for OHMSS in stereo. It was never in 70mm so I can only presume it would've been 4 track magnetic stereo.

Spy was mono in the wide release but 4 track stereo in the premiere engagements. This stereo mix first appeared on the letterbox LD release and was bumped up to 5.1 for the final LD and all successive releases. The mono now is the rare version.

My nerdiness also extends to trying to ascertain why the two different mixes of Thunderball exist. Eventually I'd like to prove my theory of an earlier UK and later US mix explanation. As it is I've already found one or two additional differences not in the official DVD clip list.

I read once that the stereo in OHMSS was just an audio effect for the avalanche sequence, and was only used for a couple of theaters, maybe just at the London premiere. I don't think the entire film was ever in stereo.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

I read once that the stereo in OHMSS was just an audio effect for the avalanche sequence, and was only used for a couple of theaters, maybe just at the London premiere. I don't think the entire film was ever in stereo.

I've heard that about the particular sequence too. It's very possible and would've been the series tiptoeing into anything other than mono. My best educated guess is that if any Bonds had mag stereo it's either LALD or TMWTGG. They both have stronger and more dynamic mono mixes to boot.

[Rocklandsboy]

The 4K set that is hopefully (!) coming will surely improve on these sound mixes, right? At least including the original mixes losslessly for the first time...? #getbondright

[hanshotfirst1138]

I wish I knew why retaining, repairing, restoring, and even including mono is so ****ing hard.

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138

I wish I knew why retaining, repairing, restoring, and even including mono is working ****ing hard.

It's not. The hard thing is getting the people in charge to care.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by Rocklandsboy

The 4K set that is hopefully (!) coming will surely improve on these sound mixes, right? At least including the original mixes losslessly for the first time...? #getbondright

If they’re included at all they usually just carry over the same lossy tracks and sometimes add even more processing to make them worse. At least the BDs include an original option for all 16 films. The prior Ultimate Edition DVDs dropped original audio for films with multiple commentaries.

And sadly even if they were lossless on the 4k release I have zero hope they will be properly restored and presented hands-off. It would likely be the lossy BD tracks simply in a higher codec like many Warner studio reissues that have done the same.

To get better audio on the pre-digital sound films you have to go back a ways. Some of the original SE DVDs sound good but even those aren’t as good as the Laserdiscs that preceded them. Plus mgm had already started doing remixing work in the 90’s. Spy and Moonraker were mixed into 5.1 for their final LDs just as the Thunderball stereo remix was bumped to 5.1. All the films had planned laserdisc special edition boxsets which were cancelled. These became the special edition DVDs and so a number of 5.1 remixes first appeared there.

For example: on Dr. No the best audio is the mono on the Criterion LD release. The subsequent mgm reissue is the same exact source but has some noise reduction applied. However Criterion tried to fix the original end credits Bond theme note that distorts by pasting in the single mix. So you have to use the mgm letterbox LD to patch in. After this mgm did some further tinkering for the 1998 thx final LD and this carried over to the DVDs before getting further messed with on the modern releases.
Some of the films have a quibble like this or two. LTK has the edited versions to deal with.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

At least the BDs include an original option for all 16 films. The prior Ultimate Edition DVDs dropped original audio for films with multiple commentaries.

I believe the DVDs only did that outside the US, right? I don't have mine anymore, but I could have sworn the US SE DVDs all retained the original mono.

[Markgway]

It might be worth an American poster here summerising this information and contacting MGM Home Ent. At least that way we'll know they have this information and can't plead ignorance of the facts later. Links to those audio pages wouldn't hurt either as it proves the case.