James Bond: The Ultimate Collection (1962-2012) + Volume Collections

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Loving this discussion, chaps. I also love Fry's Turkish Delight.

When I think of Fry's I think of these. Originally you could get one bar with five flavours in them. Science is a wonderful thing.

[MJD64]

I've always loved the Marvin Hamlisch score for TSWLM, it fits the humorous comic-book tone of the film perfectly...and I still think it's the best Roger Moore Bond by a wide margin.

[Rocklandsboy]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

Can somebody kindly explain to me how this crap got nominated for an Academy Award, but no Bond score from John Barry ever did?

Because when you set THAT kind of standard, the Academy takes you for granted and totally fails to appreciate you. Whereas when another composer comes along, and the score feeling different, there's your nomination. It's the reason so many European composers are nominated in the category, because they don't sound traditionally "Hollywood".

[imsounoriginal]

The version of the Bond theme from Spy Who Loved Me is epic. Great score overall.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Rocklandsboy

Because when you set THAT kind of standard, the Academy takes you for granted and totally fails to appreciate you. Whereas when another composer comes along, and the score feeling different, there's your nomination. It's the reason so many European composers are nominated in the category, because they don't sound traditionally "Hollywood".

I don't really think that had anything to do with it. Hamlisch and Barry have both been well recognized by the Academy. The Spy Who Loved Me was a huge success when it came out and gave the series a shot in the arm after a decade of malaise. The Academy recognized this by throwing a few noms its way. Plus, as dated as the score sounds now, at the time it would have sounded fresh and contemporary.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by hammerman2.

OHMSS is generally considered one of the best by Bond fans -probably for lots of different reasons.

I always feel like this is an opinion pushed as consensus by a loud minority. I love OHMSS as a movie, but it's far from my favorite Bond movie, and I know very few who think it is outside of film enthusiast circles. Not knocking your opinion of course, just this idea that it's widely considered a top Bond. I don't see that. The entire second half is pretty flawed IMO.

[kwisatzhaderach]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

Can somebody kindly explain to me how this crap got nominated for an Academy Award, but no Bond score from John Barry ever did?

The Academy Awards are meaningless PR bullshit. It's a popularity contest, nothing at all to do with the quality of the art.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I always feel like this is an opinion pushed as consensus by a loud minority. I love OHMSS as a movie, but it's far from my favorite Bond movie, and I know very few who think it is outside of film enthusiast circles. Not knocking your opinion of course, just this idea that it's widely considered a top Bond. I don't see that. The entire second half is pretty flawed IMO.

Who outside of film enthusiast circles would even enter into a discussion about what the top Bond movies are? Ask any average joe about Bond and they'll probably say they liked "Goldfinger... and Goldeneye... oh, and what was that one with the white car that turns into a submarine? I liked that one too." OHMSS has always been highly regarded among Fleming fans for its faithfulness to the book right down to the ending, which was a bold thing to do at the time, and its reputation has steadily increased since the late 80s or so.

[ChromeJob]

Age certainly plays a part in our appreciation. I grew up with the Connery films as a little boy, then the Roger Moore films as an adolescent/teen (started being SO excited that "The Saint" tv series star was going to be James Bond, initially thrilled by the contemporary feel but then let down by the vaudeville tongue in cheek tone, including musical cues from Lawrence of Arabia). I didnt' even see OHMSS until adulthood as it hardly ever got screened. It was the last to appear on ABC-TV IIRC, and in a butchered, edited version -- with narration!

I completely lost interest after the goofiness of Moonraker, had my hopes raised by FYEO, then dashed by Octopussy (a CLOWN costume? really??). Refused to see any until they hired Timothy Dalton.

So those of you who were introduced by the Roger Moore flicks, it makes perfect sense that you have a different perception of the series. The 60s films with Connery were a very different endeavor. Compare what Richard Maibaum and Terence Young were trying to make with what Guy Hamilton and Tom Mankiewicz were trying to do, you have very different views of the material. One is an exciting international thriller with a touch of wit, the other is a goofy, self-referencing, almost self-parodying souffle (theater term for light entertainment) with some genre tropes and motifs for the audience to easily follow.

DAF, even when it was released, struck me as a schizo work. Trying to be serious, but loaded with knee slap jokes and American humor. Even as a 10 year old kid I thought Wint & Kidd were in bad taste. At least LALD was "modernized" with blaxploitation cues and hip music by George Martin. Mankiewicz' guffaws fit right in.

And …Connery in a pink tie. (shudder) WTF was that.

I have to admit, though. The more I listen to John Barry's music from DAF, the more i like it. He furthered his experimentation with the synthesizer from OHMSS, and with more balanced results. "007 and counting" is one of his best pieces from the Bond films IMHO. (You have to get hte remastered soundtrack to hear the complete title song and other cues.)


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[hammerman2.]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

No, they should have just left it the way it was to begin with. It was re-staged because there are bystanders in the shot. Well, they're not any more noticeable than the crowds of people watching the rest of the car chase, not to mention a car screeching through an alleyway on its side is bound to attract onlookers. The "bandage" is a lot worse than whatever problems it was intended to fix.

As far as I am aware the scene was not restaged.
It was simply shot in 2 different locations at 2 different times with the second unit shooting one of them which lead to the error which wasn't noticed until viewing rushes in the UK.

[hammerman2.]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I always feel like this is an opinion pushed as consensus by a loud minority. I love OHMSS as a movie, but it's far from my favorite Bond movie, and I know very few who think it is outside of film enthusiast circles. Not knocking your opinion of course, just this idea that it's widely considered a top Bond. I don't see that. The entire second half is pretty flawed IMO.

My point exactly.

Many like it because it sticks to the book better than others. Many like it because it is more serious in tone than films before or after it.

The action sequences are exemplary and the integration of the romance is very well done, and then there's the score, the cinematography and more.

I feel the negative response the film gets is usually from people who simply listen to the anti Lazenby crowd and write it off.

Many years ago , in the late 80's I always used to have my wifes parents over for a movie every weekend and they loved the Bond movies but were never keen on watching anything too old.
When I asked them to watch OHMSS they said they'd seen it and wrote it off but reluctantly agreed to watch it again.

Once it ended they admitted they had actually never seen it before , they only thought they had and thought it was excellent.
Like so many people they had ignored the tv screenings simply because of the reputation it had got over the years.

[hammerman2.]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Who outside of film enthusiast circles would even enter into a discussion about what the top Bond movies are? Ask any average joe about Bond and they'll probably say they liked "Goldfinger... and Goldeneye... oh, and what was that one with the white car that turns into a submarine? I liked that one too." OHMSS has always been highly regarded among Fleming fans for its faithfulness to the book right down to the ending, which was a bold thing to do at the time, and its reputation has steadily increased since the late 80s or so.

I love the movie but I think its reputation as a whole would have been much improved had that death scene actually been the pre credits sequence for Diamonds Are Forever instead.
Certainly in 1969 I don't think the audience was ready to leave the cinema after a Bond film on such a downer- and it would have made a great start to the next movie although I doubt Connery would have done as good a job as Lazenby did - in that scene

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Who outside of film enthusiast circles would even enter into a discussion about what the top Bond movies are? Ask any average joe about Bond and they'll probably say they liked "Goldfinger... and Goldeneye... oh, and what was that one with the white car that turns into a submarine? I liked that one too." OHMSS has always been highly regarded among Fleming fans for its faithfulness to the book right down to the ending, which was a bold thing to do at the time, and its reputation has steadily increased since the late 80s or so.

Bond is faaaar from an enthusiasts only thing. I've had Bond conversations with tons of dudes in my 20ish years since seeing my first Bond movie. Tons! Usually they praise the Connery stuff but hate the Lazenby and Moore movies, but it depends.

In any event my only point is there seems to be a rabid fanbase for OHMSS that like to push it as a hidden masterpiece (well, not so hidden now). I like the movie, quite a bit really, but I just don't agree it's at the top of the Bond crop or is so well made. Anyway opinions are varied obviously, and we all have ours. I just think it's interesting how passionate OHMSS fans are.

[Geoff D]

OHMSS is a bit overlong for sure (a Bondian pun if ever there was one) but damn, there's so much about it that I dig on: the wonderful music, the hard-hitting action, Diana Rigg in SMOKING hot form, Lazenby proving to be surprisingly non-shit and more physical than that p*ssy Connery (the slide on the ice with the machine-gun, wow), Telly Savalas being Telly Savalas, and THAT ending. It's one of my favourite Bonds for sure.

Just for this blast of awesomeness alone it deserves to be near the top:

James Bond - On Her Majesty's Secret Service Theme - YouTube

[imsounoriginal]

I could easily see how OHMSS is viewed as a not-so-great Bond outside of the fanbase. But I love the hell out of it. It took a while to become a favorite of mine mainly because it's not one of the goofy fun Bonds I used to enjoy more when I was young, but that's precisely why I tend to prefer it now.

[ChromeJob]

I'm one of those who love OHMSS, but I admit it has lots of flaws. After having a pretty polished actor play the role, ti seems a little like DR NO was: a b-movie with some sparkle and shine to it. Lazenby is okay, but not really a great actor. Simple physical and suave enough to walk through the role (and do his own fights), something Connery was seemingly less pleased to do, even if Bob Simmons was his dancing partner)(maybe that's not fair, Connery did get nose to nose with a shark for Thunderball). Despite his best efforts, Lazenby is surrounded by better actors.

There are 2-3 spots where witty quips are just wrong for the tone. His comment about Beluga caviar after trashing one of Draco's men in the Hotel Splendide seems added in post. I mute when that comes along. His comment, "Oh, mystery tour, eh?" I can do without. HIs joke to the St. Bernard dog. Oh, and the in joke "this never happened to the other feller" that he kept saying during production, that they left in, blech. Hunt should've known better.

His womanizing in Piz Gloria after he and Tracy have been looking at engagement rings (during the music montage) is sort of icky. In the book he hasn't made any decision about her, and muses about her while there because he's gotten a letter from her (from a clinic she's checked herself into to clean up, get her head together, at his suggestion, and THAT's the beginning of the romance, really). So his bed-hopping isn't being as unfaithful.

Blofeld's scheme in the novel is just to destroy England's agri economy as revenge for foiling Thunderball. Making it an international affair, again ransoming the world a la Thunderball, seems hackneyed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Dr. Evil, you want to hold up the whole wide world, yada yada, we've heard it before.

But despite these flaws, there are some jewels. Incredible Technicolor cinematography. Great locations; Piz Gloria is outstanding. Great fight scenes, really brutal in 1-2 spots (crushing the guy's throat with a ski to keep him quiet!). Diana Rigg - her own incredible special visual effect feast. Lack of silly gadgets to get him out of tough scrapes. That screeching-scraping sound of a helmet against the bobsled track. There are some things that people like in teh Danny Craig films that I can point to in OHMSS: a REALLY fit guy doing his own fights, some tough fights, modern real-world fashions, a dark side to Bond. Oh, and the Olympic skier's stunts, and incredible reverse photography (Willie Bodner? cant' remember, he came back and worked on FYEO).

I showed this to a lady friend who'd never seen it, or heard of it, she only knew the Roger Moore films. She loved it, and gasped at the end. Completely unexpected.

…

You all know that Peter Hunt filmed the finale in case they wanted to put the ending as a teaser in DAF? Yep, the crane shot as the DBS drives out of the wedding was done so it could be the OHMSS ending. But he made a compelling argument to end it like the book. I imagine the thought was that George would come back for DAF with a mean BAMF persona, beating the living crap out of some stooges, "WHERE is Ernst Stavro Blofeld?!" -- hunting for Blofeld with very deadly vigor.

I keep waiting for copies of that US$50 Making Of book to come down in price, but no one wants to sell theirs.


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[Trekkie313]

I still have never completely watched OHMSS. I've literally fallen asleep to it and TMWGG.

No offense, good score and plan for the villain. Dislike pretty much everything else about it though.

[Yojimbo68]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

OHMSS is a bit overlong for sure (a Bondian pun if ever there was one) but damn, there's so much about it that I dig on: the wonderful music, the hard-hitting action, Diana Rigg in SMOKING hot form, Lazenby proving to be surprisingly non-shit and more physical than that p*ssy Connery (the slide on the ice with the machine-gun, wow), Telly Savalas being Telly Savalas, and THAT ending. It's one of my favourite Bonds for sure.

Just for this blast of awesomeness alone it deserves to be near the top:

James Bond - On Her Majesty's Secret Service Theme - YouTube

It a great movie. Period! I have to put From Russia With Love at the top but this is definitely number two on my list of favorite Bonds. OHMSS might just be my favorite John Barry Bond score too which is saying a lot. That main theme is just amazing!

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by hammerman2.

I love the movie but I think its reputation as a whole would have been much improved had that death scene actually been the pre credits sequence for Diamonds Are Forever instead.
Certainly in 1969 I don't think the audience was ready to leave the cinema after a Bond film on such a downer- and it would have made a great start to the next movie although I doubt Connery would have done as good a job as Lazenby did - in that scene

That would have been a terrible idea. Sure, the film underperformed at the time but its artistic integrity is intact as a result of keeping that ending. Besides, with Lazenby departing and Eon all but ignoring that film even happened by the time DAF came out, I fear that the death scene would have been scrapped all together.

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Bond is faaaar from an enthusiasts only thing. I've had Bond conversations with tons of dudes in my 20ish years since seeing my first Bond movie. Tons! Usually they praise the Connery stuff but hate the Lazenby and Moore movies, but it depends.

In any event my only point is there seems to be a rabid fanbase for OHMSS that like to push it as a hidden masterpiece (well, not so hidden now). I like the movie, quite a bit really, but I just don't agree it's at the top of the Bond crop or is so well made. Anyway opinions are varied obviously, and we all have ours. I just think it's interesting how passionate OHMSS fans are.

I would consider those enthusiasts. Not Bond enthusiasts mind you, but film enthusiasts which is what I was referring to. I think the reason OHMSS gets all of this praise as a hidden masterpiece is due in large part to the fact it was shunned for so long, particularly in contrast to a film like Goldfinger which gets so many plaudits as the best in the series when it's far from it.

Originally Posted by ChromeJob

There are 2-3 spots where witty quips are just wrong for the tone. His comment about Beluga caviar after trashing one of Draco's men in the Hotel Splendide seems added in post. I mute when that comes along. His comment, "Oh, mystery tour, eh?" I can do without. HIs joke to the St. Bernard dog. Oh, and the in joke "this never happened to the other feller" that he kept saying during production, that they left in, blech. Hunt should've known better.

I think the "Other fella" line is a wonderful icebreaker, though I think Lazenby's delivery of the line sounds so stilted and impersonal. The one joke that makes me cringe is "He had lots of guts". Sounds like something a 6-year-old would say.

[ChromeJob]

OH, yeah, the "guts" line. I always forget that one. Pfft.

I hate most of these little dark quips. I mean, the first one in Dr. No, the hearse crashes, some construction worker runs up and asks him, "What 'appened?!", and he thinks for a moment, answers, "I think they were on their way to a funeral." Classic dry Terence Young humor (several cast members attribute that dry sardonic wit to him).[1] Other films trying to do the same, seem to go too far. Low point: Roger Moore on Kananga's death, "Well, he always did have an inflated opinion of himself." [rimshot] [laugh track].

[1] Oh, I think the first is telling the doorman at the embassy "Make sure he doesnt' get away" about the dead chauffeur. Another dry Youngism.

Oh, and his identifying the butterfly that M is mounting. What, Bond knows butterflies? Yeah. Right. :-|

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