8K discussion thread

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

John, thanks for the comments. Sorry if my post came off as "marketing" I certainly had no intent to do that. In fact, I made no comment as the any advantage of 8K by itself, other than my use of a 8K camera to create my own 8K content. What I did reference is the physical and exclusive advantages that Sony and LG employed into their 8K TVs.

BTW, native 8K consumer cameras will be available from Sharp by Q2 2020.

These new 8K display types and enhanced processors will deliver a better image quality than any other 4K HDR TV period. I have seen this with my own eyes as we are displaying and demonstrating Sony's 8K 85" Z9G and I've been fortunate to spend much time with this display and this is confirmed by the many reviews by well respected professional TV reviewers.

New model TVs will look better than old model TVs? I'm shocked I tells ya, SHOCKED. The longer my ZD9 holds out then my next TV will, in all likelihood, be an 8K model, but the 8K part is completely and utterly incidental to my buying choice. Hell, I bought my first 4K TV a full three years before 4K disc was even available to buy because it was (or seemed to be) so good at 3D, so I'm no stranger to joining at the ground floor for reasons other than getting to the penthouse at the top. But this time, without movie studios really pushing 8K content creation - at least 4K had a champion in the form of Sony and however self-serving that may have been, given their CE division, 15 years ago it really was all set to become the standard in the world of movie post-production - then the whole 8K thing feels like a depressingly typical CE industry move of putting the proverbial wagon before the proverbial equine.

Originally Posted by puddy77

Apple's new Mac Pro workstation can edit three 8k streams simultaneously. And its Pro Display XDR is 32" 6k HDR (1000 nits average, 1600 nits peak).

https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/3/18...otos-wwdc-2019

For six ****ing grand minimum I'd expect nothing less! If they added an actual toaster to it - given all the heat - then it really would be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

For six ****ing grand minimum I'd expect nothing less! If they added an actual toaster to it - given all the heat - then it really would be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

They've already added a cheese grater. What more do you want?
Honestly, they bragged about the grater design as a unique heatsink with better airflow. It'll probably make a nice warm breeze.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

What a optimist.

See
H.265/HEVC vs H.264/AVC: 50% bit rate savings verified - BBC 9 Feb 2017

versus
Testing AV1 and VVC - BBC 30 May, 2019

8K: Delivery Challenges And Industry Readiness - TV Technology 10 April 2019

Even if you had VVC in place the implied savings might not be as high as 50% as comparing to previous codecs, then it needs to be incorporated into hardware processing which effectively means another generation of devices, with increased processing requirements (heat) I expect.

From the last article

John, very much appreciated all three articles.

I must admit the first 2 are over my head, but the third was most informative for me in discussing pluses and minuses currently re: 8K. Tres bien.

[RScottyL]

Originally Posted by Cortiz

There's a limit of what the human eye can perceive. Just saying....

I think we are still good for a couple more generations!

I see 8K next.....then either 12K or 16K!

We may or may not make it to 32K!

I am sure we can tell the difference between 4K and 8K!

[LordoftheRings]

✨ https://soranews24.com/2019/06/08/am...-at-night/amp/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k7a...ature=youtu.be

[LordoftheRings]

❇ https://www.whathifi.com/amp/feature...than-you-think

[moviemike4]

Originally Posted by grodd

The QLED is very overpriced for what you get compared to other comparable LCD TV's like Vizio or Sony. In some ways the current QLED is worse than the 2016 models.

Samsung has made some major mistakes lately (especially 2017) and will be interesting to see where they go next year. I don't see 8K next year, and it won't really help with their blooming problems either. They need to look at better local dimmer technology like Sony or they will find themselves dookin it out for bottom place again.

The only saving grace seems to be the anti reflective screen which helps them in brightly lit rooms.

exactly 8k with no 2.1 chip and very little 2.1 features .

[Lee A Stewart]

Production of 8K Content for 8K TVs

On June 11th, the 8K Display Summit was held in New York at the Millennium Times Square Hotel. The event was produced by Display Daily regular, Chris Chinnock of Insight Media, and sponsored by Samsung. One of the topics discussed in detail by three of the 14 total speakers was 8K content creation. Other speakers also touched on content creation as part of the whole 8K (UHD-2) ecosystem.

Everyone at the 8K Display Summit agreed that the value of 8K was in the very-high image quality an 8K TV showing native 8K content could show. They agreed this high image quality came not just from more pixels (7680 x 4320), but from all the other “Better Pixel” ideas that need to be incorporated in 8K video. These better pixel ideas include wide color gamut (WCG), high dynamic range (HDR), higher bit depth and high frame rate (HFR).

https://displaydaily.com/article/dis...ent-for-8k-tvs

[sapiendut]

But still the compression will be based on GoP instead of individual frame like MJPEG, and I don’t think REC2020 and 12-bit colour will be used

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Production of 8K Content for 8K TVs

On June 11th, the 8K Display Summit was held in New York at the Millennium Times Square Hotel. The event was produced by Display Daily regular, Chris Chinnock of Insight Media, and sponsored by Samsung. One of the topics discussed in detail by three of the 14 total speakers was 8K content creation. Other speakers also touched on content creation as part of the whole 8K (UHD-2) ecosystem.

Everyone at the 8K Display Summit agreed that the value of 8K was in the very-high image quality an 8K TV showing native 8K content could show. They agreed this high image quality came not just from more pixels (7680 x 4320), but from all the other “Better Pixel” ideas that need to be incorporated in 8K video. These better pixel ideas include wide color gamut (WCG), high dynamic range (HDR), higher bit depth and high frame rate (HFR).

https://displaydaily.com/article/dis...ent-for-8k-tvs

The complete story for potential buyers of 8K tvs is that in the meantime, you’ll be seeing a lot upscaled HD and 4K – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post16533179

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Production of 8K Content for 8K TVs

On June 11th, the 8K Display Summit was held in New York at the Millennium Times Square Hotel. The event was produced by Display Daily regular, Chris Chinnock of Insight Media, and sponsored by Samsung. One of the topics discussed in detail by three of the 14 total speakers was 8K content creation. Other speakers also touched on content creation as part of the whole 8K (UHD-2) ecosystem.

Everyone at the 8K Display Summit agreed that the value of 8K was in the very-high image quality an 8K TV showing native 8K content could show. They agreed this high image quality came not just from more pixels (7680 x 4320), but from all the other “Better Pixel” ideas that need to be incorporated in 8K video. These better pixel ideas include wide color gamut (WCG), high dynamic range (HDR), higher bit depth and high frame rate (HFR).

https://displaydaily.com/article/dis...ent-for-8k-tvs

All the items that were promised and never delivered with 4k or poorly delivered. I'll believe it when I see it.

[Robert Zohn]

Here's 4 clips from CE Week's 8K panel discussion with some of the top industry leaders from Samsung, Sony, LG, Sharp, Digital Trends and me.

https://youtu.be/E96dJGUn458

https://youtu.be/hbH-T2XGG1o?t=135

https://youtu.be/tL_98Xlluvk

https://youtu.be/NKmAWQo7oS4

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

All the items that were promised and never delivered with 4k or poorly delivered. I'll believe it when I see it.

4K is still a maturing format, there's still room for implementing innovations. It's 1080p that's seen its best days behind it.

[jibucha]

Robert Zohn

any chance of making the 'entire panel discussion' available?

i think that that would be both informative and interesting

what do you think?

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Here's just 2 brief clips from CE Week's 8K panel discussion with some of the top industry leaders from Samsung, Sony, LG, Sharp, Digital Trends and me.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

4K is still a maturing format, there's still room for implementing innovations. It's 1080p that's seen its best days behind it.

Aye. Leaving aside the sheer saltiness of people who've "got a better 4K setup than most" but who still despise 4K for the most part, either because they're unwilling or unable to appreciate its benefits, to my eyes there has been a HUGE jump in image quality thanks to HDR. I think it's extraordinary, and while its actual implementation has been the crown jewel of cluster****s that doesn't mean that it doesn't actually work. It was promised and it was delivered, in spades.

[koberulz]

Not on most TVs though, right? You need a pretty top-of-the-line set to get the real benefit of HDR (not to mention be used to watching SDR at proper luminance values rather than cranked all the way up).

I'm not even sure how much I'm getting from my set given that OLED maxes out really, really low in terms of nits. It really doesn't feel that different to me most of the time, to be perfectly honest, although I don't watch much UHD content and I've never really sat down and done an A/B comparison, but it just feels to me a lot of the time like I could get the same effect by turning up the contrast/backlight on SDR material.

And that's without even getting into the HDR/DV/HDR10+ fustercluck.

[Lee A Stewart]

8K TV: More Than Just Pixels

The 8K Display Summit held June 11 at the Millenium Times Square Hotel had 14 speakers and a presentation of content that was deep, broad, and frequently insightful. In yesterday's DD, my colleague Matt Brennesholtz focused on the content devoted to 8K content production.

In today's DD, I will focus on a big idea: 8K is not just about quadrupling the number of pixels in UHD; it is the vehicle for a new level of image perception, some aspects of which are not measurable in traditional ways (at least not yet). I will make use of quotes from the speakers to present this case, and I reserve the right to toss in quotes that are just plain interesting even if they are not closely related to the theme.

https://displaydaily.com/article/dis...an-just-pixels

[LordoftheRings]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVw6...ature=youtu.be

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by koberulz

Not on most TVs though, right? You need a pretty top-of-the-line set to get the real benefit of HDR (not to mention be used to watching SDR at proper luminance values rather than cranked all the way up).

I'm not even sure how much I'm getting from my set given that OLED maxes out really, really low in terms of nits. It really doesn't feel that different to me most of the time, to be perfectly honest, although I don't watch much UHD content and I've never really sat down and done an A/B comparison, but it just feels to me a lot of the time like I could get the same effect by turning up the contrast/backlight on SDR material.

And that's without even getting into the HDR/DV/HDR10+ fustercluck.

There are plenty of capable HDR TVs out there, the problem lies with the tone mapping as much as the actual specs of X TV. I can't force you to love it, and you would not be the first person so enamoured with the SDR image on their OLED that HDR seems to be a minimal improvement, if at all, but the problem stems from that peak brightness as you say. OLEDs are SO good at retaining colour volume nearer to black at low luminance levels, far better than LCD, which is why there doesn't appear to be much of a difference, but LCD does a much better job of retaining colour volume at peak luminance levels which is as much a part of 'true' HDR performance as anything else, no matter what the cognoscenti will tell you.

Not everything is mastered as eye-searingly bright as to take advantage of brighter displays, true enough, which is why OLEDs have so much traction in mastering suites and will remain the weapon of choice for any self-respecting AV aficionado (good job I hate myself then ) but I guess that 8K would be as good an opportunity as any to 'reboot' HDR, not in terms of the broader specs (which aren't changing any time soon) but in terms of making damned sure that these TVs can do HDR in a way that lays waste to SDR.

[puddy77]

Panavision says Netflix's Maniac had a full 8k (anamorphic) workflow. So I guess we'll have one show to watch whenever Netflix goes 8k.

https://twitter.com/Panavision/statu...15347206430720

Go behind-the-scenes on @netflix's MANIAC with DP Darren Lew and colorist Steven Bodner to see how #Panavision and @light_iron create end-to-end 8K #HDR workflow solutions.

https://youtu.be/VHMcOKAgkZc