Blu-rays are 8 years old and DVDs still cling to them like a cancerous tumor. Why?

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

My mother was asking me if her DVD player still played cassette tapes last week. (I kid you not) when I asked her if she had any cassettes she said no!

Many movie theatre projectionists will claim that in the film days, they were asked by people arriving late to "rewind the cassette" and start the movie over. I have no idea whether this was apocryphal or not, but if true, it simply demonstrates that people have no freakin' idea. An incredible number of people think that movies are produced pretty much in real time, like a recorded stage play .

Years ago, when New York's Village Voice (co-founded by Normal Mailer among others) was still a great newspaper, they used to have a comic strip called "Stan Mack's Real Life Funnies" in which all dialogue was guaranteed verbatim. It would feature incredibly stupid (or sometimes brilliant) things people said on the streets of NYC. I always thought I should have kept a record of the stupid things regarding the technology that I've heard people say in movie theaters and make a comic strip like Mack's, but of course I never did. When I heard something stupid, I was usually too annoyed to keep quiet and I'd usually correct the idiot, feeling like Marshall McLuhan criticizing the guy on the movie line in Woody Allen's "Annie Hall".

[Naiera]

Examples, dude, examples

Great guide that's all like linked to in your sig.

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by coljohnmatrix

DVD is never a better format than blu-ray. A DVD might be more convenient, for say, playing in a minivan, but it is physically impossible for it to be "better". Cheaper maybe, but not better.

The overwhelming majority of the time this is correct. However there have been a few examples of botched transfers on blu-ray where I found the dvd to be superior. The dvd of Gladiator vs the original release on blu-ray comes to mind (where peoples head actually change shape during scenes it has been so heavily tampered with).

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Many movie theatre projectionists will claim that in the film days, they were asked by people arriving late to "rewind the cassette" and start the movie over. I have no idea whether this was apocryphal or not, but if true, it simply demonstrates that people have no freakin' idea. An incredible number of people think that movies are produced pretty much in real time, like a recorded stage play .

Years ago, when New York's Village Voice (co-founded by Normal Mailer among others) was still a great newspaper, they used to have a comic strip called "Stan Mack's Real Life Funnies" in which all dialogue was guaranteed verbatim. It would feature incredibly stupid (or sometimes brilliant) things people said on the streets of NYC. I always thought I should have kept a record of the stupid things regarding the technology that I've heard people say in movie theaters and make a comic strip like Mack's, but of course I never did. When I heard something stupid, I was usually too annoyed to keep quiet and I'd usually correct the idiot, feeling like Marshall McLuhan criticizing the guy on the movie line in Woody Allen's "Annie Hall".

Yep, sounds about right!

[CraigThom]

Originally Posted by Tok

You get rid of the legacy format. Buy your parents a BD player for $50.

It's not like Audio CD has another disc format it's competing against.

DVD was developed in an SD era where video compression was still in it infancy.

Except for SACD and DVD-A. They've been around for over a decade. They offer nothing but better sound, though, so they never had a serious impact on CD.

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

Originally Posted by coljohnmatrix

DVD is never a better format than blu-ray. A DVD might be more convenient, for say, playing in a minivan, but it is physically impossible for it to be "better". Cheaper maybe, but not better.

Have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Even if you could care less about the overall superior PQ of a Blu vs. a DVD, my strong impression is that Blu's are much more durable than regular DVD's, i.e. they don't scratch up as much. I may be a little more sensitive to this than most, however, since in the days when I used to rent a lot of DVD's (before physical rental stores like Blockbuster & Hollywood Video went under) there were numerous occasions when I would rent a DVD and was unable to watch this due to it being scratched. I have also purchased DVD's and had to return them due to their being scratched....

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by AnamorphicWidescreen

Have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Even if you could care less about the overall superior PQ of a Blu vs. a DVD, my strong impression is that Blu's are much more durable than regular DVD's, i.e. they don't scratch up as much. I may be a little more sensitive to this than most, however, since in the days when I used to rent a lot of DVD's (before physical rental stores like Blockbuster & Hollywood Video went under) there were numerous occasions when I would rent a DVD and was unable to watch this due to it being scratched. I have also purchased DVD's and had to return them due to their being scratched....

I would agree 100%. Own hundreds of blurays and never had an issue. Just pop them back in the case and they are fine. Sometimes, when I ordered online, some DVD would come loose from the spindle and be scratched enough to skip at a certain part of the movie (rarely but it did happen several times) if/when the bluray becomes loose during transit it doesn't result in the disc skipping. They play just fine.

[coljohnmatrix]

Originally Posted by AnamorphicWidescreen

Have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Even if you could care less about the overall superior PQ of a Blu vs. a DVD, my strong impression is that Blu's are much more durable than regular DVD's, i.e. they don't scratch up as much. I may be a little more sensitive to this than most, however, since in the days when I used to rent a lot of DVD's (before physical rental stores like Blockbuster & Hollywood Video went under) there were numerous occasions when I would rent a DVD and was unable to watch this due to it being scratched. I have also purchased DVD's and had to return them due to their being scratched....

I was saying that DVDs are NEVER better than blu-rays, just cheaper, and you are reiterating what I said, so I don't see how you disagree with me? But yes, DVDs, as I argued before, are at least partially responsible for the downfall of rental services like Blockbuster, due to how easily they get damaged. I can't tell you how many times people angrily returned DVDs that wouldn't play.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by AnamorphicWidescreen

Have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Even if you could care less about the overall superior PQ of a Blu vs. a DVD, my strong impression is that Blu's are much more durable than regular DVD's, i.e. they don't scratch up as much. I may be a little more sensitive to this than most, however, since in the days when I used to rent a lot of DVD's (before physical rental stores like Blockbuster & Hollywood Video went under) there were numerous occasions when I would rent a DVD and was unable to watch this due to it being scratched. I have also purchased DVD's and had to return them due to their being scratched....

Wait, isn't the guy you quoted agreeing with you?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by coljohnmatrix

I was saying that DVDs are NEVER better than blu-rays, just cheaper, and you are reiterating what I said, so I don't see how you disagree with me? But yes, DVDs, as I argued before, are at least partially responsible for the downfall of rental services like Blockbuster, due to how easily they get damaged. I can't tell you how many times people angrily returned DVDs that wouldn't play.

Yes, that had me confused too! You posted at the same time as me but just saw your post lol.

[coljohnmatrix]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I agree with what you say. However, most of the streaming/downloaded content is going to be watched on smartphones like mentioned previously. Some may still choose to watch on a big tv but itunes quality is going to cut it for the vast majority. What I believe we will see moving forward is smartphones dominating the scene in terms of EST and streaming services. The vital 16-34 age group are already accustomed to watching media on those small screens. Therefore, I think discussions about dvd quality will be mute. As long as streaming quality is reasonably consistent quality it's not going to matter a great deal on a screen so small. With 4G and whatever is next (5G lol) access to tv and movies via smartphones will be rapid. Now those people currently watching dvd are going to be fine streaming their content to the living room (via something like Chromecast or a box) in SD quality as that is what they are content with at the moment. For the rest of us, we are simply hanging onto the shirt tails of quality until it breathes it's last breath. For me, that means surrounding myself with blurays and hoping that quality won't fall too badly (just think CD quality compared to 128mbps)
I just wonder if the people enjoying dvd now will be the same people who will happily sit in their living room watching the lion king or Shawshank (two very popular DVDs I believe) on their smartphone in a not too distant future. By the way, I don't mention tablets as I believe they will go the same way as the netbook.
So to summarise, I think bluray is the gold standard and although I hope 4k is a huge success I am not sure it will be. If it isn't, bluray will be judged as the best in town. Once we can't go up in quality anymore, there is only one way we can go. Let's hope my fears don't pan out for decades to come but the obsession with mobile along with the acceptance of inferior quality (DVD) is a lethal combination that home cinema fans like myself may never recover from.

God, I hope this isn't the future. Call me old fashioned, but I can't stand to watch content on a smartphone. It pretty much eliminates any emotional involvement in a film or a show. Just really cheapens the medium. But I think this is a different tool that can exist simultaneously with home media. I don't think it's going to replace anything.

Netflix is introducing 4K streaming and adding more HD content pretty frequently, so I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet. Even if the majority still use DVD, as long as there is a market for better content, better content will be produced. They will make blu-rays as long as people buy them. I can't imagine home theater setups dying off over the next 10-20 years. If anything, more and more people are buying projectors and souped up setups as the costs have come down. I mean, you can buy a decent 1080p 3D projector for $600 bucks now, which would have been absurd just a few years ago.

[coljohnmatrix]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes, that had me confused too! You posted at the same time as me but just saw your post lol.

Haha well I'm glad we agree at least!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by coljohnmatrix

God, I hope this isn't the future. Call me old fashioned, but I can't stand to watch content on a smartphone. It pretty much eliminates any emotional involvement in a film or a show. Just really cheapens the medium. But I think this is a different tool that can exist simultaneously with home media. I don't think it's going to replace anything.

Netflix is introducing 4K streaming and adding more HD content pretty frequently, so I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet. Even if the majority still use DVD, as long as there is a market for better content, better content will be produced. They will make blu-rays as long as people buy them. I can't imagine home theater setups dying off over the next 10-20 years. If anything, more and more people are buying projectors and souped up setups as the costs have come down. I mean, you can buy a decent 1080p 3D projector for $600 bucks now, which would have been absurd just a few years ago.

I hope it doesn't happen as well. It's more a fear than anything else. It's like learned behaviour though. If young people are introduced to tablets and smartphones it will probably affect how they access media in future. A few years back parents would either buy a portable DVD player or stick a Disney dvd on the main tv. Now they give the child the tablet or smartphone and maybe headphones and they are entertained in their own little world for hours. By the time these people have grown up they are completely comfortable with the concept. I guess they won't be bothered about the big screen tv. It seems to be about a personal experience now.
Even more worrying is that even if this apocalyptic future (for home cinema fans) plays out and we somehow adapt to 5 inch screens, smartwatches are now being pushed as an alternative to smartphones. So 2-2.5 inch screens will be the norm in a few years and we are kidding ourselves if we think the industry won't push to get films and tv on a screen that small just for the novelty if nothing else. Common sense would suggest that there is no way that the whole population could adapt to watching screens that small but it might be a huge part of the younger population that do adapt. Nobody imagined we would be watching movies (not me) on a 4 or 5 inch screen years ago.
I know this is probably a very extreme vision and it won't pan out but just the threat of this happening is enough to get me thinking!
I guess the major future question is ''will the option to enjoy our media on a big screen in the living room still exist in 20-25 years from now? I'm guessing yes but I'm not too confident!

I had this discussion with a fellow half-geek and he laughed at my theories. He thinks flexible screens will make all of this mute with foldable 4 inch screens that expand to tablet size or tablet sized devices that expand to monitor screens. I nearly fell off my chair lol. This stuff is science fiction and won't happen in our lifetime IMO. Despite what the internet concepts may show. (Also my opinion)

[pentatonic]

As stated, just curious. How many of you guys have kids in the 15-25 age range here? The reason I ask is that yes, my daughter for example uses her cell and laptop for day to day social entertainment (background music, etc.), but her (and her friends) are fairly avid theater goers (twice a month as a minimum). In their case anyways, the real big screen is still where it's happening, the major difference being what is now offered as cinema.

Let's face it, cinema has changed before the methods used for home viewing did. Real original scripts are now exceptional and it all has to do with the visuals and sound. Basically cinema is now a fast consumption product. Here this week, gone the next. So basically the whole experience has changed.

So for them cinema doesn't mean the same. Gone are the long waiting times between new movies (remember those). Gone are the epic movies. The whole cinema culture is now fast food, and as far as I know, nobody treats fast food like fine dinning, young and old. This will NOT revert to how it was, those days are gone forever.

How will all this affect the future of home entertainment is still up in the air but BD is here and alive for those who care about quality and I'd rather see DVDs being sold in large enough quantities than lose a chunk of that necessary cash cow. The more the studios sell, whichever format chosen, is all good news. In time DVD will go away, and if not, as long as I have the opportunity to buy HD, I couldn't care less about DVD. We are the "niche" of the business and I think they have served us right up to now. DVD will not stop that, it can only get better.

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

Originally Posted by coljohnmatrix

I was saying that DVDs are NEVER better than blu-rays, just cheaper, and you are reiterating what I said, so I don't see how you disagree with me? But yes, DVDs, as I argued before, are at least partially responsible for the downfall of rental services like Blockbuster, due to how easily they get damaged. I can't tell you how many times people angrily returned DVDs that wouldn't play.

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I misunderstood your post. Glad I'm not the only one that's noticed DVDs' susceptibility to scratch easily. That flaw is one that physical CD's share as well.....

That being said, I also strongly prefer a physical DVD/Blu to streaming (as long as the physical format is not scratched - LOL). As I've mentioned in other posts, I've rarely seen good PQ in the streaming format; plus, there can also be jerks/fits & starts in the motion onscreen, no matter how fast your connection is.

I don't see the attraction of watching a film/TV show on a 5" screen. The eye-strain there wouldn't make it worthwhile for me. I would much rather wait to see something at home on a large screen, then be able to watch something immediately on a small screen while on the road/commuting, etc. But, that's me...

[bruceames]

The day when watching movies on smartphones becomes all the rage is a day that will never come.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

The day when watching movies on smartphones becomes all the rage is a day that will never come.

Isn't that day already here? We wouldn't dream of it but the kids are doing that now. It's almost unimaginable to me to watch something like the dark knight on a phone but many are watching films that way now. I bet they are watching the likes of a Game of Thrones that way as well. It's madness but it is happening. The 40 and over crowd will be gone in 30-40 years and that leaves the next next gen watching on portable devices. It is habit to them and they don't seem to have the love for movies that many of us do.

[tob]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Isn't that day already here? We wouldn't dream of it but the kids are doing that now. It's almost unimaginable to me to watch something like the dark knight on a phone but many are watching films that way now. I bet they are watching the likes of a Game of Thrones that way as well. It's madness but it is happening. The 40 and over crowd will be gone in 30-40 years and that leaves the next next gen watching on portable devices. It is habit to them and they don't seem to have the love for movies that many of us do.

I agree.

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

Originally Posted by pentatonic

Let's face it, cinema has changed before the methods used for home viewing did. Real original scripts are now exceptional and it all has to do with the visuals and sound. Basically cinema is now a fast consumption product. Here this week, gone the next. So basically the whole experience has changed.

So for them cinema doesn't mean the same. Gone are the long waiting times between new movies (remember those). Gone are the epic movies. The whole cinema culture is now fast food, and as far as I know, nobody treats fast food like fine dinning, young and old. This will NOT revert to how it was, those days are gone forever.

How will all this affect the future of home entertainment is still up in the air but BD is here and alive for those who care about quality and I'd rather see DVDs being sold in large enough quantities than lose a chunk of that necessary cash cow. The more the studios sell, whichever format chosen, is all good news. In time DVD will go away, and if not, as long as I have the opportunity to buy HD, I couldn't care less about DVD. We are the "niche" of the business and I think they have served us right up to now. DVD will not stop that, it can only get better.

No kids myself, though I agree with you 100% on younger folks' attitudes re: films. The times they are a changin', and movies & home video will never be the same. I also know what you mean about newer feature films - though I still think there are lot of great films being made, I don't have as much interest in new films these days as in the past; that being said, I felt Superman: Man of Steel last year was the best Superman film of all time (and this is from someone who grew up with the Chris Reeve movies), & am really looking forward to Dawn of the POTA this Summer - however, films like this are few & far between (for me, at least).

Also following up on your post, IMHO there is no better time to be a movie fan than right now: We have access to literally thousands of old & new movies in an extremely good format (even regular DVD's are better than previous home video formats) & in some not-so-good formats; there is a relatively short wait time between when a film hits the theatre & when it hits home video (it used to be 6 months or longer; now it's 4 months or less); there are online forums like this where we can find out about PQ, availability, and all other aspects of a film before we even see/purchase this.

This is getting a little OT, but this thread has made me nostalgic :

This is a far cry from the time when I grew up (the '80's). We never had cable, so unless I saw a film in the theatre (which was rare, since we only had a small theater with three screens for most of my childhood) I was sometimes relegated to trying to find it on network TV if & when it was ever on; I remember staying up late at night to watch certain films, especially '70's horror flicks (Let's Scare Jessica to Death, etc.). VHS tapes were better than nothing, but a lot of films weren't available in that format or if they were, they were extremely tough to find; and, even then, I thought VHS was terrible - sub-par picture & pan/scan (though better than network TV). Anyone around during that time will also remember the extremely long wait time between when a film hit the theatre & home video; Return of the Jedi (1983) didn't come out on VHS tape until 1986. I also remember the extremely high prices of VHS tapes; a friend who was big into the James Bond films paid around $80 for The Living Daylights when it was released circa '88.

I was definitely a deprived kid growing up

So, by those standards, these days being able to go into a store & buy a Blu film for $10 (or less, in many cases) is amazing...

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by AnamorphicWidescreen

This is a far cry from the time when I grew up (the '80's).

Really? All the kids in my kindergarten had cable. (in the 1980s)

I also remember the extremely high prices of VHS tapes; a friend who was big into the James Bond films paid around $80 for The Living Daylights when it was released circa '88.

And I thought $50 for a VHS tape was expensive...

So, by those standards, these days being able to go into a store & buy a Blu film for $10 (or less, in many cases) is amazing...

Sites like Amazon spoiled me. Now if I see a film for more than $15 I think of it as being too expensive.