Blu-rays are 8 years old and DVDs still cling to them like a cancerous tumor. Why?

[Josh B]

Originally Posted by Krelldog1977

You are clearly not an audiophile. Stick to your HTIB or soundbar. Its NOT a great world to navigate through, trust me, when you get ill you'll realize that.

WHERES THE PICS OF YOUR GALLERY??? BIG TALKER

I checked out your theatre pics and it's pretty cool. It also looks like you live a trailer home, though. (Nothing wrong with that, I had to do it in my early 20s). I am curious though, do you even have enough room to enjoy that ballin' setup? Seems like such a waste, if not.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by pentatonic

Actually you did have DVD players with HDMI as early as 2005. They were higher end players but they did exist.

I had a low end Pioneer with HDMI in 2006. It wasn't the very latest model either.

[Krelldog1977]

Originally Posted by Josh B

I checked out your theatre pics and it's pretty cool. It also looks like you live a trailer home, though. (Nothing wrong with that, I had to do it in my early 20s). I am curious though, do you even have enough room to enjoy that ballin' setup? Seems like such a waste, if not.

Hi Josh, thanks for checking out my pics, I'm overwhelmed by your comments....and nice gear yourself!

Well if you must know I live in Westchester county in a 1.2M home. I will be moving to a much larger room soon, and with bigger PBN speakers. The Compact reference speakers...getting a good deal.

I'm sorry that you had to live in a trailer home....it must be nice to be living large now ehh ?

[Krelldog1977]

Originally Posted by Josh B

I checked out your theatre pics and it's pretty cool. It also looks like you live a trailer home, though. (Nothing wrong with that, I had to do it in my early 20s). I am curious though, do you even have enough room to enjoy that ballin' setup? Seems like such a waste, if not.

did I mention you have a super gallery.....awesome stuff! Thanks for sharing it with other members.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

I don't watch DVD that much anymore, but when I do, it's only because a certain movie is not available on Blu-ray, and probably never likely to be (if I felt that it had a chance of being released soon I'd probably wait and watch something else).

You can suggest films to Criterion. Some films I've suggested have eventually been released on Blu-ray, others haven't. It's no guarantee, but it's worth a shot.

suggestions@criterion.com

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by pentatonic

To be honest, even on HiFi rigs dedicated to music, 192 KHz is not even agreed upon (not saying it's not better). But in a movie soundtrack blasted, many can't tell the difference between core DTS and DTS-HD MA.

24 bits though would be great, smooth out the whole frequency range some.
But unless a new process comes out (previous post, or Atmos for home), I am more than satisfied with lossless now and would still upgrade to UHD when they add better specs.

Overall, I agree with you. I am saving my pennies for UHD even if there is not an audio upgrade.

When digitizing my vinyl collection I find a notable improvement recording at my sound card's full 192/24 sampling rate over 96/24, but not everyone finds this as important as I do. If I had to make a choice between a improved color space and improved audio sampling rate for UHD, I'd take the improved color in a heartbeat.

At the very least we can both agree that mandated 24 bit sampling is something worth putting in the 4KBD spec and that UHD will be awesome.

[blonde_devil]

love the arguements in this thread

I have a question about the idea behind this thread - why does dvd have to go away because blu-ray is around? Look at music - mp3s and iPods have been around for years now yet artists still release physical cds all the time. There is no issue with having 2 formats out there for that so why can't we have 2 formats for video. I mentioned it in a thread before but it baffles me why home video seems to want 1 format only when most other things out there come in multiple formats and people like it - cell phone, cable/satelitte, etc. If people want it and the demand is still there, why bother getting rid of dvds?

[Tok]

DVD and BD are essentially the same product at this point.

The only reason to keep DVD going is for legacy portable devices like the player in your minivan. Personally I wouldn't want my kids taking my BDs in the car. But there are so many options for potable movies anymore I can't see DVD being viable for more than another 5 years.

DVD was designed for a SD world and that's why it needs to go away. The transition to HD is pretty much over and DVD is living on borrowed time for being a viable format for new releases.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Tok

DVD and BD are essentially the same product at this point.

The only reason to keep DVD going is for legacy portable devices like the player in your minivan. Personally I wouldn't want my kids taking my BDs in the car. But there are so many options for potable movies anymore I can't see DVD being viable for more than another 5 years.

DVD was designed for a SD world and that's why it needs to go away. The transition to HD is pretty much over and DVD is living on borrowed time for being a viable format for new releases.

SD is alive and thriving Tok. Netflix are now offering a SD only stream for new customers. HD is not needed on smartphones and tablets and unfortunately that's where the majority of the next generation are watching their media. I expect the likes of Disney to also offer a SD only feed when/if they release a personalised subscription (mobile) model soon.

I love my bluray but we may be the last gen of people who care about quality enough.

[Tok]

You're missing the point Steedeel. There are other options for getting SD video. DVD players don't connect to Tablets and Phones.

I am saying for disc based players there is little need DVD any longer. Anyone that buys a DVD player at this point for a TV over an entry level BD is wasting their money unless they are connecting it to an SD set with no plans of ever upgrading.

BD players are cheap in the grand scheme of things now and factor in low cost catalog titles there is little reason to buy a DVD only player.

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by CraigThom

I think DVD supplanted VHS not because the picture quality was better but because it was more convenient. No rewinding, no big clunky package, no machines eating tapes, random access, etc.

Blu-ray offers no such improvements over DVD (except that the discs are harder to damage, and when do you ever hear that touted as a benefit?). The picture and sound are better, but for most people that's not a compelling reason to buy a new player. I think most people are perfectly happy with the way DVDs look.

For the rental stores, DVDs took up less floor space and were less likely to come back damaged (and never unrewound). There were compelling reasons for the stores to switch from VHS to DVD and lead the public with them. But Blu-ray offers no business reasons for them to switch, and the stores are pretty much gone, anyway.

So DVD isn't going away because it offers nothing but better sound and video, which we care about, but we are a minority.

Originally Posted by AnamorphicWidescreen

Well, the DVD format still has some life in it - as I mentioned on another thread, recently the '80's Monsters TV series & L.A. Law S1 were released only on DVD, not Blu.

There are still a lot of films that have not been upgraded to Blu yet (from DVD). Hell, there are a lot of films that haven't even made it past the VHS format...

And, not everyone has a Blu player - I myself didn't get one until about a year & a half ago.

That all being said, I do agree that DVD's packaged with Blu's almost seems like a waste, unless you give away the DVD's; obviously you won't buy a Blu unless you have a Blu player, and you wouldn't use the DVD if you have the Blu.

IMHO, 4K is a long way off from becoming a mainstream format. My understanding is that 4K Blus look best on 4K TV sets, and from what I've seen, those sets are prohibitively expensive ($6,000 - $7,000). And, though I believe that 4K Blus themselves aren't that much more expensive that regular Blus, they don't always have the special features that Blus have; i.e., based on what I understand the 4K Blu Taxi Driver looks slighly better (maybe, depending on your set) than the regular Blu TD, but the 4K has no special features, unlike the regular Blu...Just my .02...

I think there a lot of reasons why DVD is still sticking around, I do feel that one needs to have the right gear to see the benefits of bluray while dvd works for almost other method of watching a movie. Smaller tv's with no sound system are fine for DVD.

I also think that the DVD boomed because the idea of "ownership" was attached to DVD. VHS was rental format before DVD, so in other words, DVD boomed when it was released.

I also remember special features being all the rage when DVD came to market, bluray does not offer anyone anything extra aside from better picture and better sound (if you have the right equipment)

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Tok

You're missing the point Steedeel. There are other options for getting SD video. DVD players don't connect to Tablets and Phones.

I am saying for disc based players there is little need DVD any longer. Anyone that buys a DVD player at this point for a TV over an entry level BD is wasting their money unless they are connecting it to an SD set with no plans of ever upgrading.

BD players are cheap in the grand scheme of things now and factor in low cost catalog titles there is little reason to buy a DVD only player.

Okay but just because there are other options doesn't mean you get rid of one. My parents don't own a computer, if they want to watch a movie they need to use a dvd. And a lot of people either don't own a tablet or don't like downloading movies so again, dvd is still the best choice. Why not just get rid of blu-ray? Not a lot of portable devices that can run it and if you want HD quality, you can always download.

[Tok]

You get rid of the legacy format. Buy your parents a BD player for $50.

It's not like Audio CD has another disc format it's competing against.

DVD was developed in an SD era where video compression was still in it infancy.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Tok

You get rid of the legacy format. Buy your parents a BD player for $50.

It's not like Audio CD has another disc format it's competing against.

DVD was developed in an SD era where video compression was still in it infancy.

okay but why do you get rid of it? Simple example - look at vhs. When dvd came along, there was a reason to get rid of it in the market place - better quality, more durable, etc. Your only reason is that it is SD quality and there are other ways to see that content. Same can be said for HD and blu-ray. Why doesn't everyone just download from iTunes and then you don't have to worry about all these discs? Unless you are getting rid of SD totally, there is no reason to get rid of dvd, and no reason that doesn't apply to blu-ray as well. For some things, dvd is a better format choice than blu-ray - tv shows for example. I mean, the first few seasons of Smallville are not HD quality and that show is just over 10 years old. All putting on blu-ray would do is increase the price as no studio is going to toss a season of shows onto 1 or 2 discs.

[coljohnmatrix]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

okay but why do you get rid of it? Simple example - look at vhs. When dvd came along, there was a reason to get rid of it in the market place - better quality, more durable, etc. Your only reason is that it is SD quality and there are other ways to see that content. Same can be said for HD and blu-ray. Why doesn't everyone just download from iTunes and then you don't have to worry about all these discs? Unless you are getting rid of SD totally, there is no reason to get rid of dvd, and no reason that doesn't apply to blu-ray as well. For some things, dvd is a better format choice than blu-ray - tv shows for example. I mean, the first few seasons of Smallville are not HD quality and that show is just over 10 years old. All putting on blu-ray would do is increase the price as no studio is going to toss a season of shows onto 1 or 2 discs.

Simple - iTunes is not blu-ray quality. Not even close. Neither is Netflix or Hulu streaming. The resolution might be 720p or even 1080p sometimes, but it is nowhere near the full quality blu-ray can provide. You can't stream lossless sound, either. Further, iTunes doesn't give you all the special features which are extremely important to many people who collect movies. If special features didn't exist, I would cut my buying of physical media by about 90%. However - streaming IS pretty darn comparable to DVD, or better depending on the source.

DVD is never a better format than blu-ray. A DVD might be more convenient, for say, playing in a minivan, but it is physically impossible for it to be "better". Cheaper maybe, but not better.

You know what else wasn't shot in HD? Every movie and television show made over the first 90 years or so of filmmaking. Virtually all of which benefit immensely from blu-ray. Smallville WOULD look better on blu-ray, if not ridiculously so. Have you seen the Star Trek: The Next Generation blu-rays? Holy cow, what a difference. A MASSIVE improvement over the DVDs, and that show came out long before Smallville. It's seriously a new experience watching it in HD. The blu-ray of the 1960's low-budget science fiction series, "The Prisoner", is a revelation on blu-ray. The Twilight Zone? Freakin' awesome.

In terms of cost effectiveness, however, I agree with you. Studios will probably never go back and release shows like Smallville, unfortunately, because consumers sadly haven't embraced blu-ray like they did DVD, and are willfully denying themselves a better home viewing experience.

I would die happy if they released Buffy on blu-ray - the DVDs look God awful.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

You can suggest films to Criterion. Some films I've suggested have eventually been released on Blu-ray, others haven't. It's no guarantee, but it's worth a shot.

suggestions@criterion.com

Thanks for the tip. I love movies from Criterion and lately I've been on a classic movies kick. Just got the DVD of 1936 Showboat which recently came out on Warner Archive.

[Horicon]

Like any industry its supply and demand. The market for DVD has to be still sufficiently large to keep DVD alive. These consumers that keep this market going obviously care less about PQ and just want to watch the movie.

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

Originally Posted by MrsMiniver

I also remember special features being all the rage when DVD came to market, bluray does not offer anyone anything extra aside from better picture and better sound (if you have the right equipment)

Yes, Blu's are definitely for those who are PQ & sound aficionados. Re: the special features, I can go either way on these. As I mentioned in another thread, I don't even have enough time to watch the DVD's/Blu's I want to see, so definitely don't have time to see most of the extras. In fact, I'm probably in the minority in that I could care less that the forthcoming Sorcerer Blu/DVD won't have extras...

Something else people already know, but is worth repeating: you can go back and play regular DVD's on a Blu player. Though this is old news now since the Blu format has been around 8 years at this point, when you really think about this, it's truly amazing that Blu is the first home video format that allows you to play a a new format as well as the previous format. So, since I'm guessing DVD's are cheaper to produce that Blu's (maybe), that's another reason DVD's are sticking around - i.e., if a company just chooses to make a regular DVD, then the market is huge since anyone with either a regular DVD player or a Blu player (or both) can watch this.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by coljohnmatrix

Simple - iTunes is not blu-ray quality. Not even close. Neither is Netflix or Hulu streaming. The resolution might be 720p or even 1080p sometimes, but it is nowhere near the full quality blu-ray can provide. You can't stream lossless sound, either. Further, iTunes doesn't give you all the special features which are extremely important to many people who collect movies. If special features didn't exist, I would cut my buying of physical media by about 90%. However - streaming IS pretty darn comparable to DVD, or better depending on the source.

DVD is never a better format than blu-ray. A DVD might be more convenient, for say, playing in a minivan, but it is physically impossible for it to be "better". Cheaper maybe, but not better.

You know what else wasn't shot in HD? Every movie and television show made over the first 90 years or so of filmmaking. Virtually all of which benefit immensely from blu-ray. Smallville WOULD look better on blu-ray, if not ridiculously so. Have you seen the Star Trek: The Next Generation blu-rays? Holy cow, what a difference. A MASSIVE improvement over the DVDs, and that show came out long before Smallville. It's seriously a new experience watching it in HD. The blu-ray of the 1960's low-budget science fiction series, "The Prisoner", is a revelation on blu-ray. The Twilight Zone? Freakin' awesome.

In terms of cost effectiveness, however, I agree with you. Studios will probably never go back and release shows like Smallville, unfortunately, because consumers sadly haven't embraced blu-ray like they did DVD, and are willfully denying themselves a better home viewing experience.

I would die happy if they released Buffy on blu-ray - the DVDs look God awful.

I agree with what you say. However, most of the streaming/downloaded content is going to be watched on smartphones like mentioned previously. Some may still choose to watch on a big tv but itunes quality is going to cut it for the vast majority. What I believe we will see moving forward is smartphones dominating the scene in terms of EST and streaming services. The vital 16-34 age group are already accustomed to watching media on those small screens. Therefore, I think discussions about dvd quality will be mute. As long as streaming quality is reasonably consistent quality it's not going to matter a great deal on a screen so small. With 4G and whatever is next (5G lol) access to tv and movies via smartphones will be rapid. Now those people currently watching dvd are going to be fine streaming their content to the living room (via something like Chromecast or a box) in SD quality as that is what they are content with at the moment. For the rest of us, we are simply hanging onto the shirt tails of quality until it breathes it's last breath. For me, that means surrounding myself with blurays and hoping that quality won't fall too badly (just think CD quality compared to 128mbps)
I just wonder if the people enjoying dvd now will be the same people who will happily sit in their living room watching the lion king or Shawshank (two very popular DVDs I believe) on their smartphone in a not too distant future. By the way, I don't mention tablets as I believe they will go the same way as the netbook.
So to summarise, I think bluray is the gold standard and although I hope 4k is a huge success I am not sure it will be. If it isn't, bluray will be judged as the best in town. Once we can't go up in quality anymore, there is only one way we can go. Let's hope my fears don't pan out for decades to come but the obsession with mobile along with the acceptance of inferior quality (DVD) is a lethal combination that home cinema fans like myself may never recover from.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

okay but why do you get rid of it? Simple example - look at vhs. When dvd came along, there was a reason to get rid of it in the market place - better quality, more durable, etc. Your only reason is that it is SD quality and there are other ways to see that content. Same can be said for HD and blu-ray. Why doesn't everyone just download from iTunes and then you don't have to worry about all these discs? Unless you are getting rid of SD totally, there is no reason to get rid of dvd, and no reason that doesn't apply to blu-ray as well. For some things, dvd is a better format choice than blu-ray - tv shows for example. I mean, the first few seasons of Smallville are not HD quality and that show is just over 10 years old. All putting on blu-ray would do is increase the price as no studio is going to toss a season of shows onto 1 or 2 discs.

Buy a BD player. They also play DVD. That way you can buy new releases in HD goodness or get a DVD if the BD isn't available. Do you see the logic? I could understand if BD Players were still $300+ but at less than $100 why would you buy DVD only?