Prometheus (2012)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Oblivion138

Everyone still complaining about the way the biologist character acts has clearly never watched many of the biologists who have nature shows on TV, who seems to thrive on handling ridiculously dangerous animals as often as possible.

Nor read At the Mountains of Madness, for that matter. Which was a huge inspiration for Prometheus. In that story, the scientists know at several junctures that they should abandon their mission, but their scientific curiosity drives them on. I mean, who could resist the squawking of giant blind penguins?

That's odd, because I didn't see any TV cameras for Millburn to play up to. What I did see was a dark, scary-assed ship that had a decapitated body outside the door of the ampule chamber, so obviously that means it's a totally safe environment and there's no underlying threat of bodily danger whatsoever.

And giant penguins are one thing, but you've gotta be the dumbest 'biologist' ever to want to approach a hissing space snake that even looks something like a king cobra. **** that noise, jack.

[RodChester]

Originally Posted by R0CK0X

Nope, no booklet.

Target had a 3D release that came with a mini art book. The regular 3D release however did not have a book.

[warrian]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's odd, because I didn't see any TV cameras for Millburn to play up to. What I did see was a dark, scary-assed ship that had a decapitated body outside the door of the ampule chamber, so obviously that means it's a totally safe environment and there's no underlying threat of bodily danger whatsoever. .

Indeed, this was the very same chamber these two morons were so afraid of that they separated themselves from the main group in the first place.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What I did see was a dark, scary-assed ship that had a decapitated body outside the door of the ampule chamber, so obviously that means it's a totally safe environment and there's no underlying threat of bodily danger whatsoever.

They also remove their helmets before opening the chamber with no knowledge of there's harmful substances on the other side.

I genuinely love Prometheus but some of the characters act like they're in a teenage-horror-movie.

[2awesome4apossum]

It just kills me. I mean, whatever if you don't like Prometheus, I don't care. But what I *hate* is when people talk about how stupid the characters are in Prometheus, but then act like the characters in ALIEN, or SUNSHINE, or STAR TREK are perfect geniuses. (There are tons more stupid decisions made on any given episode of Star Trek than there are in Prometheus, and we all know it. For example, people complain about removing helmets, but in Star Trek they do things much MUCH dumber than simply removing helmets in an environment that has already been scanned to be "clean." I was watching an episode just last night where they get a contagion by brazenly beaming over to another ship in which people were clearly acting weird, and opened the freaking hatch doors KILLING THEMSELVES -- episode 2, season 1 of TNG. Maybe they scanned off-screen, but if a Prometheus scan isn't good enough for you, why would an Enterprise scan be?)

You can always tell when someone whose introduction to science fiction was their exposure to Prometheus hate on the internet, because they'll always start a review by saying something like ...

"SUNSHINE was okay, but like PROMETHEUS I just felt like the characters were too stupid to be believable." Unfortunately, what these people don't realize is that characters being stupid is a trope of the genre (it drives the conflict/story, generally speaking), and because Prometheus was generally disappointing, people wanted to channel their frustration with a legitimate criticism, so the common consensus was to blame the characters.

But after watching it midnight in an IMAX theatre full of people, before they got on the internet to see what was trendy to criticize most people simply said they were "underwhelmed" and "HOLY SHIT HOW CAN YOU RUN AFTER HAVING A C SECTION WITH STAPLES." (Although, it is somewhat aggravating to have the map maker literally be the dude that gets lost. But whatever, maybe the machines are his but he just has no idea how to use the maps they make.)

I mean, people are pretending like people or even scientists in real life act logically most of the time, and I'd argue that they DON'T any day of the week. They're humans. Humans are stupid. I know a biologist, and he isn't great with living animals. I've been camping with him and I'm nowhere near as brazen as he is. So. Whatever.

I'm just saying. Sure, you can hate Prometheus or think the characters are stupid. But don't pretend this doesn't affect 90% of science fiction movies in equal measure.

[EDIT] And even the scifi movies in which the characters are "smart," like GRAVITY, still take a hit elsewhere. I was totally on board with the first 20 minutes of that movie, but at some point it turned into "GOD HATES SANDRA BULLOCK BUT SHE JUST WON'T DIE: The Movie." Or "WHAT OTHER IMPROBABLE THINGS COULD GO WRONG IN THE NEXT THIRTY SECONDS? The Movie."

[Bk_Tan]

lol cool story bro.

But Prometheus was terrible all around and a waste of money, talent and concept.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by 2awesome4apossum

It just kills me. I mean, whatever if you don't like Prometheus, I don't care. But what I *hate* is when people talk about how stupid the characters are in Prometheus, but then act like the characters in ALIEN, or SUNSHINE, or STAR TREK are perfect geniuses.

The problem some people have with Prometheus is that the stupid jars with the intelligence so badly. They're constantly at odds with each other throughout the film. We can except the humanness of the characters in other movies because they don't conflict so badly. You can only suspend so much belief before the next motivation becomes ridiculous.

I watched Alien the other day and stupid doesn't propel the story forward like it does in Prometheus. They brought back John Hurt because he was crewmate and friend (and Ash wanted him to be brought on board), they made a serious error (which Ripley strongly opposed) because of their humanity not because of their stupidity.

Star Trek: The Next Generation is the same, they believed that their technology will protect them from viruses (they were unsure of the cause at the time) through the bio-filters in the transporters, they wanted to find out what caused the deaths on the vessel. They took precautions but the technology failed them, they followed procedure.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

I watched Alien the other day and stupid doesn't propel the story forward like it does in Prometheus.

That's it in a nutshell. People might then say "but why did Kane look in the egg in Alien? That's D U M B", but he doesn't know any better! It's ignorance and bravado from a gung-ho character, rather than sheer unadulterated stupidity that flies in the face of experience (unless Millburn was an intern that they brought along on this billion-dollar mission, now THAT'd make sense). And that one event sets the story in motion, yes, but Kane doesn't "expose" anyone to anything, it's Ash wanting the creature for his own ends who breaks the quarantine protocols, and after that point they've got a bloodthirsty monster on their trail (as well as a nutty android) so it's no wonder they may not act quite as rationally as one might expect. But almost everyone in Prometheus behaves like an airheaded high-schooler even before the shit hits the fan, and each idiotic act compounds the stupidity until it reaches a critical mass of daftness that sinks the whole movie. And the "high school horror" feel is only amplified by all of the nameless red shirts that they bring along on the mission.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by 2awesome4apossum

It just kills me. I mean, whatever if you don't like Prometheus, I don't care. But what I *hate* is when people talk about how stupid the characters are in Prometheus, but then act like the characters in ALIEN, or SUNSHINE, or STAR TREK are perfect geniuses.

Different movies, done differently. Whatever the reason is it stands out more in Prometheus and annoys people more. Much has been written about why, I'm not going to repeat it all again. What I would suggest is you realize more people complain about it in Prometheus, which probably means Prometheus had unique issues with it.

[FingolfinFinwe]

This is all easily explained . Fifield was smoking weed when they first enter the room, and then shared it with Milburn (offscreen), which explains his overly relaxed composure and ill-advised proximity when confronted by the evil snake worm of death. The way I typed this sounds silly, but this is actually how I see it going down when I watch it.

[Oblivion138]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's odd, because I didn't see any TV cameras for Millburn to play up to. What I did see was a dark, scary-assed ship that had a decapitated body outside the door of the ampule chamber, so obviously that means it's a totally safe environment and there's no underlying threat of bodily danger whatsoever.

And giant penguins are one thing, but you've gotta be the dumbest 'biologist' ever to want to approach a hissing space snake that even looks something like a king cobra. **** that noise, jack.

Biologists are always going to be excited (to the point of becoming childishly giddy) when confronted with new life.

[Geoff D]

I still prefer the "he was baked on space-cake" explanation better than that.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I still prefer the "he was baked on space-cake" explanation better than that.

Sure, but then you have to bring up the fact scientists on an important mission like that, who were too freaked out to stay in the room minutes before, are now wandering around high on weed and poking stuff.

It's just so dumb.

[Geoff D]

Yeah, there is that. But the film's supporters would then say "Fifield did it to calm his nerves 'cause he was so scared!" or some bullshit like that. For every Prometheus question there is an answer, no matter how stupid it is.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah, there is that. But the film's supporters would then say "Fifield did it to calm his nerves 'cause he was so scared!" or some bullshit like that. For every Prometheus question there is an answer, no matter how stupid it is.

Yeah.

I wish I could see the film that way. Scott + sci-fi again was pretty much a dream come true for me. Blade Runner and Alien could arguably be my two favorite movies ever, and if not they're in the top five. I certainly didn't go in cynical. The teaser trailer almost made me orgasm.

I even like the film, in the end. The visuals and general plot are compelling. The characters and their motivations though are just SO BAD. It's just super off-putting. It's worse in some ways to have a high quality movie with a terrible flaw than it is to have an overall average movie.

[lolwut]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's odd, because I didn't see any TV cameras for Millburn to play up to. What I did see was a dark, scary-assed ship that had a decapitated body outside the door of the ampule chamber, so obviously that means it's a totally safe environment and there's no underlying threat of bodily danger whatsoever.

And giant penguins are one thing, but you've gotta be the dumbest 'biologist' ever to want to approach a hissing space snake that even looks something like a king cobra. **** that noise, jack.

To be fair, there were no cameras but he was trying to impress the other guy. Also, drugs.

[Geoff D]

[2awesome4apossum]

Originally Posted by chip75

I watched Alien the other day and stupid doesn't propel the story forward like it does in Prometheus. They brought back John Hurt because he was crewmate and friend (and Ash wanted him to be brought on board), they made a serious error (which Ripley strongly opposed) because of their humanity not because of their stupidity.

Yours is probably the best argument I've heard (particularly in regards to Alien), but I still believe my point stands. Especially after hearing your Star Trek justification.

On Star Trek, they believe their technology will protect them. It doesn't, they follow protocol.

On Prometheus, they scan the air around them, discover it's cleaner than earth and take off their helmets. Presumably their scanners would pick up anything to be concerned about. When Charlie is infected, Shaw refuses to take her helmet off, and Vickers won't let him back on board because she's following protocol. Some characters think it's inhumane, Vickers wins, and Charlie agrees. It's too late for him anyway.

A biologist -- scared of huge nasty humanoid aliens -- gets excited when he finds an alien animal. That doesn't conflict with anything. How many people do you know that love animals and hate humans? I'm extremely cautious when I see a deer, because I've seen them charge before. But I'm not super cautious when I see most snakes, because even though my brother was bitten by a rattlesnake (camping again, he stepped on it), I find that most snakes keep to themselves.

And Milburn is hardly to the point of Steve Irwin reckless. He tries to coax the creature, keeping a very small distance, but he has a ****ing space suit on, so even if the thing tried to bite him, he's presumably protected by a mass amount of protective gear. He totally expected to be able to pull away nonetheless, and absolutely tries to do so when things go wrong. I guess he should have anticipated it being able to get inside his suit and having acid blood?

Another complaint I see a lot is that characters were stupid for opening the door when they saw Fifield's suit. But how are they supposed to know he's a zombie-Alien-thingy? Does anyone (who isn't an idiot) believe in zombies? This isn't stupid, this is simple curiosity. Sure, the guy just stands there in shock when Fifield stands up, but he's ... in shock.

When Papa Weyland goes to see the alien, I had a hard time, because I realize the point of the mission is to find immortality (lol, wut?), but he's using David to attempt to translate. This is probably the dumbest thing in the film (apart from running around after a c-section, which is a simple gap in logic -- like having gravity on a space ship that clearly shouldn't have gravity). But for me, I can understand why an insanely old man obsessed with immortality would be grasping at straws.

My point is that everyone makes excuses for stupid characters in science fiction when it's something they like, but when they were disappointed (like with Prometheus), they act like anyone who likes it must be too dumb to pick up on the stupidity of the characters.

I was disappointed with Prometheus the first time I saw it. (I was hoping for a movie that would be scary.) I've grown to appreciate it, mostly because of the craft behind it, and that I really want to know what happens next. But I don't think it's as black-and-white as the internet makes it out to be.

Again, I can always tell when someone's exposed to Prometheus hate before watching things like SUNSHINE, STAR TREK, ALIEN, 2001, and more (even my love: the new Battlestar Galactica), because they'll usually say, "The characters were too stupid, kind of like in Prometheus."

Don't get me wrong, I understand this is a legitimate problem some people had with the film, but I think it's vastly overstated in a day and age of internet forums. People like to form opinions similar to their friends, so you kind of have a concensus that went viral.

Doesn't mean it's not legitimate, but it IS vastly inconsistent. Someone can't love the Resident Evil movies and then hate Prometheus because of stupid characters. People have to understand there's something wrong there. You can't say "the premise" was unbelievable in Prometheus, but totally believable in Oblivion (although I liked that one all the same).

So I think I'm more of a middle-ground here. I was disappointed with the film, I laughed when the map-maker got lost (because that was silly), but I found my suspension of disbelief much easier than a lot of other sci-fi films. Certainly easier than Oblivion, Edge of Tomorrow, Guardians of the Galaxy, Transformers, The Maze Runner, The Giver and RoboCop -- to name a few such recent sci fi movies.

[EDIT] As for Milburn's excitement, I don't think it needs to be explained by drugs, although I suppose that would do it. But also there's the issue of what a huge deal this was. Like, say someone has wanted to be a writer all their life, gets their brand-new published book in the mail! Opens it, sees a little white powder on it. They pause, but pick it up anyway ... and it's anthrax. Sure they were careless, but it's a totally human mistake to make. Their excitement overrode their caution. Sure, you don't want a snake to attack you, you screw up out of excitement.

[Ray Jackson]

I like Prometheus, but I can understand why a lot people view it as a failure.

It's pretty far from being a perfect film like the original was.

My biggest issue was the casting.

I really liked Noomi Rapace in The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, but she wasn't right for this role.

The guy they picked to play the boyfriend scientist was terrible. Same thing with the biologist and the geologist and the two co-pilots. Good films elevate to great films when the director/producer pay close attention to every detail, no matter how extraneous they may seem. Feels like Ridley Scott didn't pay very much attention to the casting process when it came to the secondary roles.

Still an enjoyable movie that will only grow in stature if, and I mean IF, they decide to make this into a trilogy.

...the ending was somewhat unsatisfying when viewing this picture as a stand alone product.

[warrian]

I follow what you're saying but I don't think casting was the problem at all. All of these actors have done great work with decent writing on other projects. The writing fails them all somewhat in Prometheus, although to different degrees depending on who we're talking about.