Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[drb124]

I just went back for a second order.

Thunderbolt and Lightfoot (Encore)
Eye of the Needle
Boxcar Bertha
Fantasticks

I wanted Barefoot Contessa and Moby Dick, but I figure those will hold out until the next sale. I didn't notice how Boxcar Bertha was selling when it came out. I would think the Scorsese/Corman combo would bode well, but maybe not.

[iamnoone]

Not sure if it's OK to quote TT from another forum (HTF), but I was surprised to see no one has mentioned their comment over there this morning that they are considering lowering units to 1,500 as the market is glutted and they may close shop in several years due to all the competition and rising licensing fees.


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Dick said: ↑
From a DVD Talk web site post came this line:

"TT has also mentioned the possibility of lowering the number of copies from 3000 down to 1500 due to the the decline of sales, so things are always changing."

Has anyone here any supporting information? Seeing the increase of sales on the TT or SAE sites, it seems plausible.

Perhaps Nick could chime in on this.
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Twilight Time:

Nothing much to add --- it is now a matter of common sense. Sales are cratering across the board for every label, although it is a good time for collectors with the product glut far outweighing an audience to buy it. Just as we predicted six years ago, the business has entirely devolved to third party licensees involved in a frenzy for the studios who now realize there is more money to be made in farming stuff out than releasing themselves. Greed though, always becomes a factor and the studios are driving up the licensing fees and advance guarantees in direct contradiction of the waning sales figures. We are entering the final phase of the physical media business with labels toying with more and more limited runs targeting those collectors that are left gamely trying to keep up - it's been a wild ride - and perhaps it will continue for a few years more. When we began TT in 2010 we figured on maybe lasting 5 or 6 years - we're now looking at 2020 as the end game which will mean we lasted 10 - not so bad in the grand scheme of things.

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Originally Posted by iamnoone

Not sure if it's OK to quote TT from another forum (HTF), but I was surprised to see no one has mentioned their comment over there this morning that they are considering lowering units to 1,500 as the market is glutted and they may close shop in several years due to all the competition and rising licensing fees.


------------------------------------------------------
Dick said: ↑
From a DVD Talk web site post came this line:

"TT has also mentioned the possibility of lowering the number of copies from 3000 down to 1500 due to the the decline of sales, so things are always changing."

Has anyone here any supporting information? Seeing the increase of sales on the TT or SAE sites, it seems plausible.

Perhaps Nick could chime in on this.
------------------------------------------------------


Twilight Time:

Nothing much to add --- it is now a matter of common sense. Sales are cratering across the board for every label, although it is a good time for collectors with the product glut far outweighing an audience to buy it. Just as we predicted six years ago, the business has entirely devolved to third party licensees involved in a frenzy for the studios who now realize there is more money to be made in farming stuff out than releasing themselves. Greed though, always becomes a factor and the studios are driving up the licensing fees and advance guarantees in direct contradiction of the waning sales figures. We are entering the final phase of the physical media business with labels toying with more and more limited runs targeting those collectors that are left gamely trying to keep up - it's been a wild ride - and perhaps it will continue for a few years more. When we began TT in 2010 we figured on maybe lasting 5 or 6 years - we're now looking at 2020 as the end game which will mean we lasted 10 - not so bad in the grand scheme of things.

And then depression set in

[jayembee]

And the name "Twilight Time" proves to be as prophetic as they expected when they chose it.

[jshaide]

I wonder if the licensing fee for 3000 is more than the 1500?

I wonder if they lowered prices to 19.95 if they would go quicker and sell in full more frequently. Sure, I get that there is a lot of competition, but 29.95 is also a tough pill to swallow unless its something really strong/really fast on selling.

[MifuneFan]

I actually was going to bring up that they my be in trouble a couple days back, but didn't want to get flamed. Increased competition, lack of super strong selling titles, and a growing number of people waitingfor sales are a deadly combination, and not a sustainable business model.

[Jobla]

I'll continue purchasing many of their releases until the bitter end.

[RalphoR]

Not surprised. It's felt like that for several months. Twilight Time did their job. Hopefully they can for a little while longer.

[thismightbezach]

Sales are cratering across the board for every label

Someone tell that to Kino, Arrow and Criterion, because they seem to be doing better than ever.

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Just watched Kiss of Death for the first time. Awesome movie! The transfer is fantastic also. Looks just as great as a classic Criterion 4K restoration.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I actually was going to bring up that they my be in trouble a couple days back, but didn't want to get flamed. Increased competition, lack of super strong selling titles, and a growing number of people waitingfor sales are a deadly combination, and not a sustainable business model.

Well you have to wonder with all the sales they've been having. Clearly, after the initial frenzy people have gotten savvy and are waiting for sales and discounts and after having the occasional annual sale, now they're having them constantly. Since, what last November or so we've had two runs of the 7 for $70 bundle, a huge sale just before Christmas and now this MGM sale. That's a lot, not to mention they still have the signed promos. Frankly, that's playing a big part in this glut they're talking about because I can only keep up with so many titles going on sale while also looking to buy priority releases from other labels.

Originally Posted by thismightbezach

Someone tell that to Kino, Arrow and Criterion, because they seem to be doing better than ever.

I agree, they've all been putting out fantastic releases lately and have announced several great ones to come.

[mja345]

Well, let's be honest, a lot of their titles, particularly recently, are pretty obscure to even a lot of collectors. I mean, "Pretty Poison", "Inserts", "Cutter's Way", and "Chilly Scenes of Winter", for example, are all great films that more people should check out, but I'd guess that 80-90% of this board has never heard of them, let alone wants to own them. It's hard when you're not releasing many heavy hitter titles to accompany some of the obscurities. If you're releasing obscure horror stuff, that's one thing, but releasing obscure New Hollywood dramas is a different animal.

[nitin]

Originally Posted by mja345

Well, let's be honest, a lot of their titles, particularly recently, are pretty obscure to even a lot of collectors. I mean, "Pretty Poison", "Inserts", "Cutter's Way", and "Chilly Scenes of Winter", for example, are all great films that more people should check out, but I'd guess that 80-90% of this board has never heard of them, let alone wants to own them. It's hard when you're not releasing many heavy hitter titles to accompany some of the obscurities. If you're releasing obscure horror stuff, that's one thing, but releasing obscure New Hollywood dramas is a different animal.

You could say the same about a lot of Kino's recent titles too though, and although they are releasing genre stuff as well, it's not exactly heavy hitter material either. But they seem to be doing quite ok.

IMHO, it is probably because the TT business model has not changed with the times. It might have worked for the last few years but the market is different now and you can see a lot of the different tactics that have been tried and attempted, some successful and some not, by almost all other labels.

I hope they do stick around as they do put out some great titles others wouldn't or don't want to but you can't not update your business model periodically in today's world.

[mja345]

Originally Posted by nitin

You could say the same about a lot of Kino's recent titles too though, and although they are releasing genre stuff as well, it's not exactly heavy hitter material either. But they seem to be doing quite ok.

IMHO, it is probably because the TT business model has not changed with the times. It might have worked for the last few years but the market is different now and you can see a lot of the different tactics that have been tried and attempted, some successful and some not, by almost all other labels.

I hope they do stick around as they do put out some great titles others wouldn't or don't want to but you can't not update your business model periodically in today's world.

I agree. Kino does release a lot of similar stuff to TT, but the fact that they're on Amazon and Deep Discount and are cheaper certainly helps. I love a lot of the titles TT puts out, as I'm a huge fan of New Hollywood films, noirs, etc. I think the combo of the business model and not releasing many titles that are going to lure more casual collectors in is tough to sustain.

[nitin]

I say this only semi flippantly, but they should put slipcovers on the first 1500 copies and that will probably solve all of their problems

[MifuneFan]

TT's business model is completely different from Kino, Criterion, etc..The latter two not only don't put such restriction on how many copies they can sel, they're also able to sell them at thousands of retailers scross the N.A. Plus, they don't have to pay a high licensing fees up front.

Here's some things they could do to improve their situation in my opinion:

- Switch to model like Kino, Criterion, etc.. (this wouldn't be easy)
- Go back to encore releases, which are proven sellers
- Lower the MSRP to $25 across the board
- Kill the constant sales, and build back up your label as being premium (selling wholesale cheapens it)
-Introduce a frequent buyers club which incentivizes repeat customers with eventual free movies, or other perks.

[easydreamer]

Originally Posted by thismightbezach

Someone tell that to Kino, Arrow and Criterion, because they seem to be doing better than ever.

I would think Criterion may be doing good only because they are releasing a lot of newer stuff as of late. The fact that they aren't releasing upgrades much could indicate that they don't simply sell well. In order to sustain their business they need to release the titles that sell well.

[Quake1028]

I like the TT titles I have, but I have to admit, of the 7 I currently own, all but 1 were bought either second hand or on sales. The 1 I bought full price was The Mad Magician 3D, because I like to support vintage 3D. The next one I buy full price will be Inferno 3D. Other than that, I have to wait for sales, or in the case of titles like The Train, Rollerball, and some others, have to look at importing because it's more cost efficient, and I don't have an unlimited budget. Even during this sale, I can import The Train and Rollerball for roughly $9-10 cheaper than what I could get them for at TT or SAE.

[Page14]

Originally Posted by mja345

Well, let's be honest, a lot of their titles, particularly recently, are pretty obscure to even a lot of collectors. I mean, "Pretty Poison", "Inserts", "Cutter's Way", and "Chilly Scenes of Winter", for example, are all great films that more people should check out, but I'd guess that 80-90% of this board has never heard of them, let alone wants to own them. It's hard when you're not releasing many heavy hitter titles to accompany some of the obscurities. If you're releasing obscure horror stuff, that's one thing, but releasing obscure New Hollywood dramas is a different animal.

... and that's exactly what I like about them. They bring us some real (forgotten) gems.

And for the most part, they do it so well, what with cover designs and audio/picture quality.

[Arch Stanton]

Originally Posted by thismightbezach

Someone tell that to Kino, Arrow and Criterion, because they seem to be doing better than ever.

Yeah, is this actually accurate then? Is there a way to view sales figures for the different brands?

Still though, 2020 does seem like the end.