Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[danmovie]

Just one copy of Rollerball left!

[ParticleDan]

14 copies of WAH left and Rollerball is now sold out!

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I just finished watching The Train, and I loved it. This movie has a perfect balance of physical action thrills and cerebral gravitas. My collection of Burt Lancaster films on Blu-ray has another milestone title.

Paul Scofield also starred in the brilliant 1994 Best Picture nominee, Quiz Show, and it occurs to me that this would make for another good Twilight Time title.

Scofield also stars in the even better 1967 Best Picture winner, A Man for All Seasons (for which Scofield also won Best Actor). And A Man for All Seasons is a far more likely candidate for a Twilight Time release, given that it's a Sony-distributed title (Quiz Show is owned by Disney).

The biggest problem I have with Quiz Show is Rob Morrow's attempt at a Bostonian accent. Very few people in Boston (even back in the 1950s) actually sound like one of the Kennedys.

[Musicguy]

So "Rollerball" is now sold out. What's the point of releasing a film for a 3 month period or less (which is starting to happen quite often now that TT is becoming more known)

The 3,000 limit is almost ridiculous at this point

It's time Twilight started to revise their game plan

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Musicguy

So "Rollerball" is now sold out. What's the point of releasing a film for a 3 month period or less (which is starting to happen quite often now that TT is becoming more known)

The 3,000 limit is almost ridiculous at this point

It's time Twilight started to revise their game plan

Well they're setting a precedent with the Blob. So maybe they will start to increase their runs on some of the more popular titles especially, as you say, they become better known. There seem to have been more sell-outs in the past month or two than in the two years prior.

[Musicguy]

True, but don't the Studios see there is a market? All that work for 3,000 units and then after a few months it's gone? It makes no sense? Unless the title is so obscure they need to rethink all this.

Why not give TT a license for X years and produce as many unit runs as they need over that time?

Plus more people are discovering blu-ray all the time, then they'll see much is OOP.

Two of friends just bought Blu-ray players after we told them they could play their DVD's on them

[lilboyblu]

Originally Posted by Musicguy

So "Rollerball" is now sold out. What's the point of releasing a film for a 3 month period or less (which is starting to happen quite often now that TT is becoming more known)

The 3,000 limit is almost ridiculous at this point

It's time Twilight started to revise their game plan

The majority of people on this board already know how it works. People in the know that wanted it bought for their collections right away; the rest were bought by scalpers in the know to flip for when more "regular people" find out that it was actually released, but then are scrambling to pick it up (and pay a premium price too!) when they come to realize it's out of print. If TT limited it to 1 per person from the beginning or made more copies, nothing would sell out very quickly, and nothing new would be released either because they wouldn't be making any profits to buy more rights. It's the way it is.

[bruceames]

Limited edition is one of their selling points. I'll give TT titles priority buys just because they might sell out and I don't want to miss out. So unless everything starts selling out in a few months I don't think they need to fix what's not broken.

I am glad that they are limiting purchases of 1 per customer when they get to a low quantity threshold. Seems to be keeping the scalpers at bay because even though quantities fall below 50, it takes a couple of days for it to sell out. So plenty of time to get in if you really want it.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Musicguy

True, but don't the Studios see there is a market? All that work for 3,000 units and then after a few months it's gone? It makes no sense? Unless the title is so obscure they need to rethink all this.

Why not give TT a license for X years and produce as many unit runs as they need over that time?

Plus more people are discovering blu-ray all the time, then they'll see much is OOP.

Two of friends just bought Blu-ray players after we told them they could play their DVD's on them

It's laziness, innit? I mean, why do all the work when you can take Nick Redman's money and let his company handle it. I really do hope though that studios are keeping their collective eyes on how quickly these titles are flying off the shelves and maybe wise up to the fact that it's the older/middle-aged crowd with huge amounts of disposable income who are buying the big TVs and sound systems and want to watch their old favorite movies on physical media (because, hey, that's what we grew up with).

[Musicguy]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Limited edition is one of their selling points. I'll give TT titles priority buys just because they might sell out and I don't want to miss out. So unless everything starts selling out in a few months I don't think they need to fix what's not broken.

I am glad that they are limiting purchases of 1 per customer when they get to a low quantity threshold. Seems to be keeping the scalpers at bay because even though quantities fall below 50, it takes a couple of days for it to sell out. So plenty of time to get in if you really want it.

Yes, but Twilight has a 3 year exclusive - because they figured it would take about 3 years to sell out. But they've started to sell out in a matter of 2-3 months or less while they still have the rights for 3 more years. So while the demand is there the product isn't even though the license is.

Plus people are discovering these films long after they are released. New consumers come all the time.

[Scooter1836]

Originally Posted by Musicguy

Yes, but Twilight has a 3 year exclusive - because they figured it would take about 3 years to sell out. But they've started to sell out in a matter of 2-3 months or less while they still have the rights for 3 more years. So while the demand is there the product isn't even though the license is.

Part of what we do not know is how much flexibility there is in their licensing contract for more copies, nor do we know if that is part of the licensing agreement(s).

If it is part of the licensing agreement(s) they may have to go back to the party providing the license for exceptions (like the blob) and that may or may not result in different licensing fees.

There is really no way to tell unless an insider can provide details.

The bottom line is, it is what it is. I am sure if TT sees a definite way to make money on what they do with their licenses and business model they will.

I am just pointing out that there are things we do not know that cause this, that we as consumers have no control over.

Part of their business model is to provide fewer copies, but each copy is at a more premium price because of the limited quantity.

[Brad1963]

The studios are pretty much done with catalog titles, other than what are consider essentials (Jaws, Wizard of Oz, Godfather, Star Wars etc.). There is no profit in releasing lower tier titles, so essentially it is up to the Indies like TT, Olive, Kino, Shout, Image, Criterion etc to picku up the slack. I know for a fact that Twilight Time is shocked by its success. They started the company in hopes of releasing the titles the studios may otherwise neglect. It was done for collectors and not the mass public. Perhaps they may change their structure. The recent upgrade to 5,000 units of The Blob indicates they are flexible about their overall plan. But in the meantime, just take it all in and enjoy. This may be the last time you will own any of these titles on physical media.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

The studios are pretty much done with catalog titles, other than what are consider essentials (Jaws, Wizard of Oz, Godfather, Star Wars etc.). There is no profit in releasing lower tier titles, so essentially it is up to the Indies like TT, Olive, Kino, Shout, Image, Criterion etc to picku up the slack. I know for a fact that Twilight Time is shocked by its success. They started the company in hopes of releasing the titles the studios may otherwise neglect. It was done for collectors and not the mass public. Perhaps they may change their structure. The recent upgrade to 5,000 units of The Blob indicates they are flexible about their overall plan. But in the meantime, just take it all in and enjoy. This may be the last time you will own any of these titles on physical media.

Some studios seem to be pretty much done, but Warner just released Tightrope and is bringing out Point Blank, hardly "essentials". Fox recently released The King of Comedy which earned some praise from the critics but was an out and out bomb at the box office. Yet, the effort was still made to release it. You're right about Twilight Time being shocked by their success, after all their name was based on the fact that it was "twilight time" for physical media. But now I see Kino are releasing dozens of MGM catalogue titles, while TT have been selling out left right and centre these days. There definitely IS a market out there still for blu-ray catalogue titles, the studios just have to get off their asses and realize that "kids these days" are streaming their Avengers, etc. but their parents are buying physical.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

The studios are pretty much done with catalog titles, other than what are consider essentials (Jaws, Wizard of Oz, Godfather, Star Wars etc.). There is no profit in releasing lower tier titles, so essentially it is up to the Indies like TT, Olive, Kino, Shout, Image, Criterion etc to picku up the slack.

That's not quite true. The studios are still into marketing their catalog titles, and on physical media. Warner, MGM, Fox, Sony, Paramount, and Universal all have MOD programs for making their catalog titles available to people who want them. Or at least, to the people who want them badly enough to find out where and how they can get them. Granted, this is restricted to the DVD format (except for the handful of titles that Warner has done on Blu), but they're there.

It's just that the studios have come to the realization that these are not things that can be effectively marketed to the general consumer. The more shelf space in, say, Best Buy that's taken up with catalog titles, the less space there is for the current/recent hits that are their bread and butter. And that's not even considering the space to warehouse the copies that they haven't sold yet.

They see the move away from physical media as a means to alleviate these problems (not to mention that they believe it gives them greater control over access to their "property"). As much as those of us who hate the idea of moving away from physical media really, really hate it, the plain fact is that we're reaching (if not already reached) the saturation point for physical media. There's only so much air you can pump into a balloon before it pops.

I think the studios do know that there's money to be made from catalog titles. That's why they have those MOD programs in place. The problem is whether they can make enough money from the catalog titles to justify the effort, as well as the impact they will have on the Big Titles.

[cmleidi]

WILD AT HEART has now sold out.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by jayembee

That's not quite true. The studios are still into marketing their catalog titles, and on physical media. Warner, MGM, Fox, Sony, Paramount, and Universal all have MOD programs for making their catalog titles available to people who want them. Or at least, to the people who want them badly enough to find out where and how they can get them. Granted, this is restricted to the DVD format (except for the handful of titles that Warner has done on Blu), but they're there.

It's just that the studios have come to the realization that these are not things that can be effectively marketed to the general consumer. The more shelf space in, say, Best Buy that's taken up with catalog titles, the less space there is for the current/recent hits that are their bread and butter. And that's not even considering the space to warehouse the copies that they haven't sold yet.

They see the move away from physical media as a means to alleviate these problems (not to mention that they believe it gives them greater control over access to their "property"). As much as those of us who hate the idea of moving away from physical media really, really hate it, the plain fact is that we're reaching (if not already reached) the saturation point for physical media. There's only so much air you can pump into a balloon before it pops.

I think the studios do know that there's money to be made from catalog titles. That's why they have those MOD programs in place. The problem is whether they can make enough money from the catalog titles to justify the effort, as well as the impact they will have on the Big Titles.

I wonder how well the MOD programs do? I know I would never buy a DVD-R which is what has held me back from buying some of the Warner Archive DVD titles that I waited years hoping they'd get a release. At least the few blu-rays they put out are pressed.

[ultlife2013]

I've never read about people complaining about twilight time's business methods before.

:interested face:

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

I wonder how well the MOD programs do? I know I would never buy a DVD-R which is what has held me back from buying some of the Warner Archive DVD titles that I waited years hoping they'd get a release. At least the few blu-rays they put out are pressed.

They do well enough that they continue to pump out titles, both ones that haven't been issued on DVD, and those that have and are now OOP. I've bought a handful of DVD-Rs from Warner Archive (by the way, some of their DVD titles are pressed rather than burned), and they look perfectly fine (for DVD). I don't know how long they'll go before degrading, if they ever do, but they're good enough for titles I can't get any other way.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by jayembee

They do well enough that they continue to pump out titles, both ones that haven't been issued on DVD, and those that have and are now OOP. I've bought a handful of DVD-Rs from Warner Archive (by the way, some of their DVD titles are pressed rather than burned), and they look perfectly fine (for DVD). I don't know how long they'll go before degrading, if they ever do, but they're good enough for titles I can't get any other way.

Yeah I don't know. To me if it's a DVD-R I might as well just "rent it" from their site. I guess I've been lucky because most of the titles that I've wanted from their program have been purchased by my local library, so through them I've gotten to see stuff like Marlowe, Party Girl, Verboten, etc...

[atfree]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

The studios are pretty much done with catalog titles, other than what are consider essentials (Jaws, Wizard of Oz, Godfather, Star Wars etc.). There is no profit in releasing lower tier titles, so essentially it is up to the Indies like TT, Olive, Kino, Shout, Image, Criterion etc to picku up the slack. I know for a fact that Twilight Time is shocked by its success. They started the company in hopes of releasing the titles the studios may otherwise neglect. It was done for collectors and not the mass public. Perhaps they may change their structure. The recent upgrade to 5,000 units of The Blob indicates they are flexible about their overall plan. But in the meantime, just take it all in and enjoy. This may be the last time you will own any of these titles on physical media.

EXACTLY. I was an early critic of TT (thought their model created a false market) but have come to see this as you do. I was not a big collector during the VHS/DVD eras because I thought there would always be the "next" thing in physical media. But a couple of years ago, after I saw the impact the streaming was having on the younger generation AND being shocked that EVERY TT release didn't sell out, I came to the conclusion that catalog titles and physical media just don't resonate with the 18-45 age group overall. And I began collecting BD's of my favorite films, mostly catalog titles, at a rapid pace.

The new majority of consumers are just that, consumers. They consume media in huge amounts and want the convenience of pressing a few buttons on a mouse, touch screen, or remote control and having whatever media they desire (music, movies, books, etc) pop right up.

This generation (and I have 4 kids, ages 13, 14, 17 and 21) also has little sense of anything that occurred or was created before their birth. I was brought up with "old" movies (i.e. 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's) being on TV all the time. Before cable/satellite, local stations has hundreds of hours of programming time to fill each week. As late as the early 1980, local TV stations showed "old" movies late at night, early in the morning, on weekends, plus the networks still showed classics on a pretty regular basis. In the early days of cable, AMC, TBS, WGN, and other outlets showed older films daily.

Now, "old" movies are relegated to TCM and a few niche premium channels, or streaming. Long story short, I have come to believe that BD will be the last, significant form of physical media for "old" movies. No way the studios (or even the niche companies like TT) will put catalog titles on UHD/4k except for the usual suspects like Casablance, GWTW, etc.