Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[ROclockCK]

In case you're still lurking about Nick...

Originally Posted by Twilight Time

Also, with all the brouhaha around here about "scalpers," speculators, folk buying hundreds of copies to re-sell on ebay, etc. That is misinformation and generally untrue. While some people do buy an extra copy or two for resale it is hardly an epidemic...with the release of NOTLD and Enemy Mine, TT will have put 32 titles into circulation. If, as expected, NOTLD sells out fairly rapidly it will be only the fourth title to do so. And two of those four titles, Mysterious Island and Journey to the Center of the Earth took a significant time to exhaust their supply...MI, 9 months, and Journey, 3 months. With 28 titles still in print, and easily obtainable, TT's catalogue is hardly a speculator's paradise, and the number we have chosen to limit all our releases to, 3,000, has proven to be a reliable barometer for the eclectic and esoteric nature of our schedule.

Thank you for shedding some light on that frequent misconception. As you say, although your Blu-rays are limited to a mere 3000, only a handful of titles will barnstorm that limited supply out of the gate like Fright Night, Journey to the Center of the Earth, Mysterious Island, and now Night of the Living Dead '90.

Besides, there are lots of other reasons why folks might order multiples of a particular title. As mentioned previously, I have been known to order extras myself for friends and collectors up here without SAE accounts, or those who are only interested in spot TT titles and don't want to incur the cost of shipping a single Blu-ray cross-border. These guys know I regularly purchase from SAE and am usually working from home when your pre-orders go up, so they just piggy-back on my purchases (which also pretty much guarantees a much safer boxed shipment cross-border). Typically, there is only Guiness at stake for my informal brokering service...although sometimes I will nab another disc or two of the hotter sellers to resell later to subsidize my own TT collection. In any case, it's all penny ante stuff...as a recurring issue here, "tempest meet teapot".

Originally Posted by Twilight Time

We appreciate all you guys hanging in for the ride...we don't know how long it will last, or exactly where we'll end up going with this "experiment," but we're enjoying it and we hope that at least some of you are getting a kick out of it too...

...a given, at least from my own admittedly esoteric collector's POV. Many of your titles have been from a chronically underserved era of filmmaking (50s 'Scope), and quite often totally MIA from home video from the get-go. I mean, over the past 2 decades, how many nth re-issues/re-packages of pop staples like Planet of the Apes do we get, but still no Prince of Players, A Hatful of Rain, or King of the Khyber Rifles? I don't know if any of those titles are on TT's radar, or even if quality HD masters exist, but the point is that throughout the history of home video, we've had squat output of this stuff until Twilight Time entered the picture - not even a studio limited run, or edition from another licensee.

What I'm often baffled by are TT titles like Rapture, The Wayward Bus, High Time, The Roots of Heaven, and The Sound and The Fury which have practically gone unseen in widescreen form since their original theatrical release, never available on DVD or even VHS and Laserdisc, yet *apparently* not engaging buyers with the same level of 'must-have' interest as that same title's CD soundtrack (Alex North's recently re-released score for The Sound and the Fury immediately comes to mind). I just don't get that...are they not the same fans? With such a limited supply of these TT Blu-rays (and DVDs), of titles so long denied an OAR home video release, typically presented very well and Region-Free to boot, they should be selling briskly, maybe not as fast as your pop-ier titles, but steadily and surely, albeit to a different, older-skewing, collector demographic.

For example, just last night, I watched your DVD of Edward Dmytryk's The Left Hand of God, and here was yet another Fox 'Scope movie I'd never seen, another Humphrey Bogart and Gene Tierney movie I'd never seen, with a superb Victor Young score I'd never heard, which I can now listen to isolated, and surely will. Even in SD upscaled to 1080p this was head and shoulders above a similarly priced MOD DVD-R, and actually better quality than some of the low-end Blu-rays I own. As usual, Julie also did a wonderful job with her backstory essay in the insert booklet. But after it finished, my first thought was the same as I had after watching My Cousin Rachel..."Why is TT's DVD of this rarely seen vault title even still available? Why hasn't a mere 3000 run of this DVD sold out yet?" Are there really so few fans and collectors left worldwide who appreciate these lost chapters in a performer, director, or composer's filmography?

Or is it merely a TT growth issue...that despite how far your label has come in a mere year and a half, wider awareness is still needed for sales of such movie esoterica to reach the tipping point? Or if it's just a DVD 'pushback' issue among collectors, do you have any plans to take some of your earlier titles to Blu? If so, at the top of my own wish list would be My Cousin Rachel...a terrific previously unseen Daphne du Maurier mystery/thriller/romance, and man, was that one handsome-looking DVD!

Anyway, my by-now-broken-record thanks for your continuing fine work. As long as TT is filling so many shameful product gaps, your label will always have a role...at least for this collector.

Steve aka ROCK

[oildude]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

.......TT titles like Rapture, The Wayward Bus, High Time, The Roots of Heaven, and The Sound and The Fury which have practically gone unseen in widescreen form since their original theatrical release, never available on DVD or even VHS and Laserdisc......

I second what Rock said in his post. These types of classic films are the main reason I get excited when Twilight Time announces their upcoming release schedule. I recognize that 2012 has been overall a good year for classic films coming out on blu-ray, yet there is still so much more out there waiting to be released. Twilight Time helps in this regard, and I love 'em for that, but I want the floodgates to open and we are not there at the moment. Not sure we ever will be, but I can hope.

One of my most wanted films for a blu-ray is Philip Borsos' The Grey Fox. It is just one of many seemingly lost titles out there. It got a VHS release, which is how I discovered it back in the early 90s browsing a video rental store. It is a fantastic western, atypical in that it is set in Canada and the main star, Richard Farnsworth - who had made his career primarily in stunt work - was an "old man" yet still tough and vigorous, giving the performance of his career. It won a bunch of awards, had mesmerizing cinematography and a haunting beautiful score. Yet it never even got a DVD release, and now that VHS rentals have gone the way of the dodo, you can't easily find it today and virtually no one remembers it. I think Lionsgate holds the rights via Zoetrope, so it isn't a Twilight Time release candidate, but it is an example of why I am such a huge supporter of what Twilight Time is doing.

For all of the sales runs of titles like NOTLD and Fright Night, the films in Rock's post are the real stars of the collection. Without Twilight Time, it is highly unlikely I would have ever experienced the joy of discovering a film like Rapture. Then add in other gems like High Time, Bite the Bullet, The Egyptian, etc, and I keep rooting Twilight Time on.....and wishing we get more than two releases each month in the future. December shows there is reason for optimism in that regard.

[kong73]

The Blob 88 anytime soon?

[starman15317]

Originally Posted by kong73

The Blob 88 anytime soon?

I would rather have Sony release it by themselves but since that won't happen, bring it on!

[kong73]

Originally Posted by starman15317

I would rather have Sony release it by themselves but since that won't happen, bring it on!

I knew I wasn't the only person who liked that Version of the BLOB

[Mr.Dig]

Originally Posted by kong73

The Blob 88 anytime soon?

Oh yees!! I would buy 500 copies of The Blob! Please Twilight Time.

[dsman71]

The Blob remake from TT would be great ( since the DVD had no extras) and I am hopeful Criterion will release the Original Blob

[Danny4]

If anyone still has a copy of Fright Night and is willing to sell it for a somewhat reasonable price compared to Ebay, please send me a message.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by oildude

I second what Rock said in his post. These types of classic films are the main reason I get excited when Twilight Time announces their upcoming release schedule. I recognize that 2012 has been overall a good year for classic films coming out on blu-ray, yet there is still so much more out there waiting to be released. Twilight Time helps in this regard, and I love 'em for that, but I want the floodgates to open and we are not there at the moment. Not sure we ever will be, but I can hope.

When I see fascinating time capsule oddities like The Wayward Bus, or High Time, or Swamp Water, or Rapture finally coming out of the vault 30 years after the introduction of home video, it's indeed tantalizing oildude...the film arcana geek in me naturally craves more. Yet I recognize the commercial reasons why much of this stuff has remained locked away so long, and why some of it might never see the light of day. My guess is TT is performing the equivalent of battlefield 'triage', rescuing the most interesting titles, in the best shape, that still have enough life in them to justify a 3000 unit run.

Originally Posted by oildude

For all of the sales runs of titles like NOTLD and Fright Night, the films in Rock's post are the real stars of the collection. Without Twilight Time, it is highly unlikely I would have ever experienced the joy of discovering a film like Rapture. Then add in other gems like High Time, Bite the Bullet, The Egyptian, etc, and I keep rooting Twilight Time on.....and wishing we get more than two releases each month in the future. December shows there is reason for optimism in that regard.

Well, it's clear from the level of discourse on this very board (as well as the resulting friction at times) that there are two, very distinct Twilight Time audiences with seemingly little overlap:

• post-80s fans - hate the price, hate the limited release model, have little or no curiosity about anything never seen, demand only original poster art for the covers and will make their own if they have to
• pre-70s fans - no feeling either way about the price, it's fair for the quality, support a limited release model if it means getting more vault titles that won't see a release any other way, willing to roll the dice on previously unseen vintage titles out of basic film history curiosity, actually still read, thus appreciate the informed liner notes, love the snappy interpretive covers and are fine with the poster being reproduced on the last page of the insert

Regardless whether they expand their release schedule, I don't see how there can ever be any homogeneity here...TT's polar demographic range would give any marketer recurring nightmares...with or without zombies.

[Twilight Time]

Dear ROCK (aka Steve):
I don't intend to drop by and post that often here, but I have to say I find your off-beat, but cogent analyses mighty entertaining--in fact, they make life a tad more bearable!

It is very gratifying that collectors such as yourself enjoy and appreciate Rapture, The Left Hand of God, The Wayward Bus, The Sound and the Fury, etc.
Those are the movies we signed up for when we started this uncertain enterprise. This is what we thought TT was going to be all about, and it is, we are, but as simple pragmatism has confirmed we have to dot the board with a few genre, more populist titles as well because we couldn't make a go of it without them. The arithmetic (as Bill Clinton would say), just isn't there. So, here we find ourselves stuck between two polar opposites as you eloquently defined--the post-80s and the pre-70s, and as we are in the process of locking in enough titles of each side of the coin to last us for at least another three years, may the loving and the hating of everything we do continue for a bit longer...

Several times in the past year I've received a late-night phone call--at the other end of the line is a crusty British voice, usually well-oiled by a few stiff ones. The conversation goes something like this: "Nick, John Guillermin here. Had some friends round. We ran Rapture again. It looks f***ing marvelous. Can't believe this bloody film is on Blu-ray." Click.

And that's pretty cool.

Thanks again, Rock, for your written words of support and your enthusiastic patronage...

All best,

Nick.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Twilight Time

Dear ROCK (aka Steve):
I don't intend to drop by and post that often here, but I have to say I find your off-beat, but cogent analyses mighty entertaining--in fact, they make life a tad more bearable!

It is very gratifying that collectors such as yourself enjoy and appreciate Rapture, The Left Hand of God, The Wayward Bus, The Sound and the Fury, etc.
Those are the movies we signed up for when we started this uncertain enterprise. This is what we thought TT was going to be all about, and it is, we are, but as simple pragmatism has confirmed we have to dot the board with a few genre, more populist titles as well because we couldn't make a go of it without them. The arithmetic (as Bill Clinton would say), just isn't there. So, here we find ourselves stuck between two polar opposites as you eloquently defined--the post-80s and the pre-70s, and as we are in the process of locking in enough titles of each side of the coin to last us for at least another three years, may the loving and the hating of everything we do continue for a bit longer...

Several times in the past year I've received a late-night phone call--at the other end of the line is a crusty British voice, usually well-oiled by a few stiff ones. The conversation goes something like this: "Nick, John Guillermin here. Had some friends round. We ran Rapture again. It looks f***ing marvelous. Can't believe this bloody film is on Blu-ray." Click.

And that's pretty cool.

Thanks again, Rock, for your written words of support and your enthusiastic patronage...

All best,

Nick.

Who thanks whom here Nick? Seriously, before the release of The Egyptian in July '11, I was one miserable puppy over the limited course the Blu-ray format seemed to be taking. I just couldn't find the balance...it was just pathetic dribbles of catalogue titles, with the overwhelming majority of studio releases biased towards recent titles with masters requiring zilch work...all the low hanging fruit. But my renewed interest in the format and collecting hasn't been the same since you guys threw down your gauntlet and seriously upped the catalogue game. Heck, I'm now seeing stuff from all of the cottage labels, and even the majors that wasn't even within the realm of 'buzz' a scant year ago. Whatever your mix of older/newer titles is going forward, it's all good as long as your product integrity remains as high as it has been. I sincerely believe we're all in a better place thanks to your team's efforts.

And a call like that from Guillermin must really offset a lot of the growing pains grief with a venture like this. That is "cool". Great anecdote!

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

I don't blame anyone for being skeptical about the accuracy of SAE's cart count. Here is what it currently shows for all TT titles (including both Blu-rays and DVDs):


Of the 30 TT titles currently listed on SAE, a whopping 21 of them still show no sales whatsoever. Only a mere 5 of TT's Blu-ray titles even deliver results when you game the cart this way.

So...not an especially "reliable" source for quantities remaining.

* Oh look, I'm getting a break on shipping!

Don't add the titles to your cart instead add them to your wishlist. Those titles that are currently showing 3000 copies still available will show much lower numbers once in your wishlist.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

Don't add the titles to your cart instead add them to your wishlist. Those titles that are currently showing 3000 copies still available will show much lower numbers once in your wishlist.

...way too low for some of these titles rdodolak. For example, my wish list is showing 203 remaining for The Big Heat, and 297 for Rapture, which we know can't be true, otherwise SAE would have already sent out "less than 500 remaining" e-mails days or weeks ago.

So we still have the problem whitesheik has mentioned several times here: there's just no way to know what figure these counts started at...3000?...2000?...or only 1000? Not all TT titles are currently in SAE's stock - some haven't even been produced yet.

[Seymour]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

post-80s fans - hate the price, hate the limited release model, have little or no curiosity about anything never seen, demand only original poster art for the covers and will make their own if they have to

A bittersweet irony, that those post-'80s philistines who happen to scarf up titles like Fright Night and Night of the Living Dead '90--are in fact a big reason Twilight Time is able to stay afloat. Something I can't quite grasp though, is that I sense a derisiveness, ROCK--with words like "hate", "demand", "little or no curiosity".

It would seem that my TT purchases put me squarely in the overlap, as The Big Heat resides in my collection, and I've never seen Enemy Mine (though I pre-ordered it).

In the end, it's obvious we all love movies here--or at the very least, collecting them.

[Page14]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

<snip>

Well, it's clear from the level of discourse on this very board (as well as the resulting friction at times) that there are two, very distinct Twilight Time audiences with seemingly little overlap:

• post-80s fans - hate the price, hate the limited release model, have little or no curiosity about anything never seen, demand only original poster art for the covers and will make their own if they have to
• pre-70s fans - no feeling either way about the price, it's fair for the quality, support a limited release model if it means getting more vault titles that won't see a release any other way, willing to roll the dice on previously unseen vintage titles out of basic film history curiosity, actually still read, thus appreciate the informed liner notes, love the snappy interpretive covers and are fine with the poster being reproduced on the last page of the insert

<snip>

That's an interesting breakdown.

I would fit into the latter category except for one thing ... I do have a feeling about the price.

I first became aware of TT with my wanting of Mysterious Island. I never thought I would pay that much for a bare bones release, but when I came to the realization that it was either pay the price or possibly never ever see the movie on bluray, I opened my wallet. Then along came a few other all-time favorites, so again thinking that I might not ever see them on bluray, I paid the price. I have no regrets!

There are several unseen TT titles I would like to explore, but I hesitate buying them for a couple of reasons ... one is the price and the other is finding the time to watch them. (I'm reminded of the small stack of Criterion titles I recently bought [9 or 10] ... some previously seen films and some not. I've only watched 2 of them so far. I'm not sure that I want to keep buying pricey [to me] blurays if I have trouble finding the time to watch them. But yet, I love the movies and want them. Ugh! ... a conundrum). Just my story.

I feel like I've learned a lot reading this thread ... about TT as a company and how/why they operate the way they do. And also about the rare, wonderful films out there that I never had a clue about before.

EDIT: If I see old favorites (films along the lines of the Ray Harryhausen films or maybe the original Flight of the Phoenix ... forgotten movies from the era I grew up in) come through the TT line-up, I'm thrilled to buy those and will most likely continue to do so. (Having trouble putting my thoughts into words ... grrr).

[Dex Robinson]

I'm pretty much open to everything.

My first Twilight Time purchase was FRIGHT NIGHT and I have NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD on pre-order.

But I also bought PAL JOEY and COVER GIRL (plus several more).


Of course, in the non-Twilight Time arena, I purchased CHESTY MORGAN'S BOSOM BUDDIES and just ordered Cocteau's 1946 BEAUTY AND THE BEAST from Criterion .

[Truewitt]

Originally Posted by Seymour

A bittersweet irony, that those post-'80s philistines who happen to scarf up titles like Fright Night and Night of the Living Dead '90--are in fact a big reason Twilight Time is able to stay afloat. Something I can't quite grasp though, is that I sense a derisiveness, ROCK--with words like "hate", "demand", "little or no curiosity".

It would seem that my TT purchases put me squarely in the overlap, as The Big Heat resides in my collection, and I've never seen Enemy Mine (though I pre-ordered it).

In the end, it's obvious we all love movies here--or at the very least, collecting them.

Don't forget that post-80s fan is also illiterate...

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Seymour

A bittersweet irony, that those post-'80s philistines who happen to scarf up titles like Fright Night and Night of the Living Dead '90--are in fact a big reason Twilight Time is able to stay afloat. Something I can't quite grasp though, is that I sense a derisiveness, ROCK--with words like "hate", "demand", "little or no curiosity".

More along the lines of caricature Seymour. Just read any dozen pages of the NOTLD90 or Fright Night threads and tell me how many posts you see that use similar language...and then end with "I'll get it anyway. Where can I order?"

Originally Posted by Seymour

In the end, it's obvious we all love movies here--or at the very least, collecting them.

Agreed. I straddle both demographics too.

[HyperRealist]

Wow, The Egyptian has been released in France, Denmark and Sweden. I wonder how they compare?

[CinemaScope]

Originally Posted by HyperRealist

Wow, The Egyptian has been released in France, Denmark and Sweden. I wonder how they compare?

As I understand it Fox did two HD versions, I don't know why they did it twice, probably a mistake. The second is the best & that's what Twilight Time used. The first go is OK, I have the Spanish DVD, which I think is a down convert from the first try, & it looks like the Scandinavian Blu is also from the first try (as I say, nothing wrong with it). I don't know about the French version (very nice cover), but with French releases beware of forced subs!

EDIT. I see the French BD is being released by Sidonis, & I'm sure they have forced subs on all their other Fox releases.