Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[bdgking]

Just putting it out there that the title Hardcore is sold out now . No more at twilight time or SAE .

Hopefully they will give a low quantity update soon for there sale .

Also based on the last SAE update you would think that The Train , Peyton Place , Theater of blood , The Vanishing , Flaming Star , and Stormy weather would all sell out soon .
Plus at Twilight Time Places in the heart is almost sold out and is only available there .


I have never seen the original Doctor Doolittle anyone can advise me if it's really good or not ?

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by bdgking

I have never seen the original Doctor Doolittle anyone can advise me if it's really good or not ?

I blind bought the blu-ray. The film is not without its charm, but it's every bit the bloated, overproduced, unfocused mess that people say it is. It could have stood to lose a good 30 minutes runtime. It was definitely worth watching once, but I don't think I'd ever have any desire to see it again. The blu-ray is gorgeous looking though.

[MassiveMovieBuff]

I myself am a HUGE retro trailer and TV spots fanatic. They are very important to me to be included as part of the extras and I love when they are included. I love going on YouTube and checking out all of the old tv spots to the films of back in the day.

[GeoffOliver]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

It's amazing to me how often original theatrical trailers are discounted when it comes to citing viable extras or even, as above, an extra at all. I must be in the minority as I consider a trailer to be one of my most sought after extras, a fascinating way to explore how a film was promoted to the general public by a sometimes clueless advertising department or sometimes as a genuinely intriguing short film in and of itself. To me it's as integral a part of the film and its history and art as using the original poster on the cover.

Some trailers, like the 1946 version of THE BIG SLEEP, feature original footage available nowhere else and other trailers are beautifully composed works of minimalist art, like the Friedkin supervised and edited one for SORCERER (which was brutally omitted from the Blu!). In any case, I want to be immersed in the whole original film experience and that most definitely includes the trailer.

Oh I agree. I enjoy having a trailer on a disc, but it’s such a basic bonus feature found on probably 90% of all major catalog releases. I don’t really see it as anything that would sway me to purchase the disc.

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

It's amazing to me how often original theatrical trailers are discounted when it comes to citing viable extras or even, as above, an extra at all. I must be in the minority as I consider a trailer to be one of my most sought after extras, a fascinating way to explore how a film was promoted to the general public by a sometimes clueless advertising department or sometimes as a genuinely intriguing short film in and of itself. To me it's as integral a part of the film and its history and art as using the original poster on the cover.

Some trailers, like the 1946 version of THE BIG SLEEP, feature original footage available nowhere else and other trailers are beautifully composed works of minimalist art, like the Friedkin supervised and edited one for SORCERER (which was brutally omitted from the Blu!). In any case, I want to be immersed in the whole original film experience and that most definitely includes the trailer.

Another example would be The Thing From Another World. The trailer shows Scotty falling backwards over the bunk during the burning sequence. In the film he only describes what happened.

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

Some trailers, like the 1946 version of THE BIG SLEEP, feature original footage available nowhere else and other trailers are beautifully composed works of minimalist art, like the Friedkin supervised and edited one for SORCERER (which was brutally omitted from the Blu!). In any case, I want to be immersed in the whole original film experience and that most definitely includes the trailer.

It's also interesting to see that spoiling key moments and plot developments isn't a new phenomenon. I can't count the number of times I've watched a trailer from the 40s or 50s and been amazed at how much it gives away.

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

It's also interesting to see that spoiling key moments and plot developments isn't a new phenomenon. I can't count the number of times I've watched a trailer from the 40s or 50s and been amazed at how much it gives away.

"Shane" is one of the worst offenders in that regard.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

It's also interesting to see that spoiling key moments and plot developments isn't a new phenomenon. I can't count the number of times I've watched a trailer from the 40s or 50s and been amazed at how much it gives away.

That's because "spoilers" weren't really a thing back then. People liked to see what to expect if they saw a movie, and it wasn't uncommon for people to show up at a movie halfway through, sit through to the end, stay there for the next showing and leave at the point they came in during the first showing.

It was because of that practice that the gimmick of Psycho not letting people in after the movie started was created, which is probably where the origin of not "spoiling" things for potential viewers came about.

[KMR]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

That's because "spoilers" weren't really a thing back then. People liked to see what to expect if they saw a movie, and it wasn't uncommon for people to show up at a movie halfway through, sit through to the end, stay there for the next showing and leave at the point they came in during the first showing.

Thus the saying, "This is where I came in."

[jmclick]

Originally Posted by hoytereden

Another example would be The Thing From Another World. The trailer shows Scotty falling backwards over the bunk during the burning sequence. In the film he only describes what happened.

Yet another example would be the trailer from the original theatrical release of Laura (1944). It includes alternate footage that was directed by Rouben Mamoulian before he was replaced by Otto Preminger, and which Preminger later reshot. Check out the scene in which Laura (Gene Tierney) and Waldo (Clifton Webb) interrupt a clandestine dinner between Shelby (Vincent Price) and Ann (Judith Anderson) at the latter's apartment; the set and costumes are different from those seen in the final cut of the film.

There are also a couple of outtakes from scenes directed by Preminger. One is of Laura and Waldo arriving at the swanky party thrown by Ann, at which Shelby introduces himself to Laura. In the trailer, there are no other party-goers in the frame; in the actual film, the main actors are surrounded by many dress extras. And at the very end of the trailer, a brief sequence that was omitted entirely from the finished film shows Laura at that same party, walking up to a large group of young women.

It should be noted that the trailer from the film's 1952 re-release, which is included on the DVD and blu-ray editions from Fox Home Video, is cut down from the original trailer, and does not include all the footage described above. The 1944 original is available online, and runs just over 2 and 1/2 minutes. It's well worth a look if you're a fan of the film.

[Aclea]

“Oh they’re not oafs, Jack. They would require practice to become oafs.”

It’s a curious phenomenon that some hits get mythical reputations as big flops simply because they failed to live up to absurdly overoptimistic predictions while many a genuine box-office disaster is almost instantly forgotten and never mentioned again. Case in point Mark Rydell’s Harry and Walter Go to New York, a sprawling turn of the 20th Century comedy that went so massively overbudget and did so catastrophically badly at the box-office in 1976 that it was the straw that almost broke the camel's back and nearly destroyed Columbia Pictures until a tax shelter fund for German dentists came to their rescue. Perhaps it was because every studio seemed to be on its knees in the mid-70s and most media commentators were convinced TV would kill off cinema once and for all before the end of the century, or perhaps everyone just wanted to pretend it never happened. Looking at it today it’s all too easy to believe it’s the latter.

It certainly had a solid cast (James Caan, Elliott Gould, Michael Caine and Diane Keaton when all four were still box-office) and a workable premise – hopeless song and dance men Caan and Gould find themselves in prison as valets to Caine’s briefly incarcerated suave celebrity millionaire master thief and steal his plan to rob an impregnable bank – but no matter how much money is thrown at it the film never takes off. Rydell claimed the problem was that the studio cut all the jokes out when they decided not to release it as a roadshow picture, though from the few attempts at humour that survive there’s nothing to convince you that what hit the cutting room floor was any funnier. Feeling at times like a musical that’s had all the songs cut out (aside from the duo’s signature routine), and not just because it was shot on Fox’s lavish Hello Dolly set, Caan and Gould take their lead from their hapless heroes and telegraph and hammer away at every gag or physical bit of business when they’d have been better off following Caine’s approach and (under)playing it straight. Not that Caine, in the kind of part that would have gone to David Niven a decade earlier, has anything funny to do either, but he glides through the fiasco with dignity intact.

Keaton, still in that stage of her career when she played her big emotional scenes with her mouth open so wide her fillings caught the light, seems to have been the victim of at least some of the cuts since a failed-romantic subplot with the two stars fighting over the favours of her radical newspaper editor is suddenly dropped into the picture out of nowhere quite late in the game simply to set up a closing gag. Still, there’s a lot of money on display (much of the detail of the street scenes was lost if you saw it panned-and-scanned on TV) and a decent supporting cast – Charles Durning, Jack Gilford, Carol Kane, Lesley Ann Warren, Ted Cassidy, Burt Young and many familiar faces - who don’t get much if anything worthwhile to do. And you can spot composers David Shire and Carmine Coppola in the pit orchestra while you’re wondering whose idea it was to name Gould’s character Walter Hill.

By all accounts everyone had a great time making it, which is always a bad sign in a comedy (Caan later sacked his management and dubbed the film Harry and Walter Go to the Toilet after seeing the finished film), and you can see why it looked like it could have worked on paper, particularly coming so soon after co-producer Tony Bill’s The Sting, but the best you can say about it is that it’s painlessly unfunny. Still, TT's region-free disc offers a good 2.35:1 widescreen transfer (though Lazlo Kovacs’ cinematography wildly overdoes the sepia-style colour scheme, a problem with the film's original look rather than overzealous restoration revisionism) with trailer, isolated score, booklet and, though I couldn't summon up the enthusiasm to listen to it after seeing the movie, film historian commentary.

One of those films I really wanted to like but just wouldn't let me...

[Aclea]

The plot is basically Romeo and Juliet with sponge divers and a happy ending (albeit with more than a passing nod to screenwriter ‘Buzz’ Bezzerides’ Thieves’ Highway, with sponge boats replacing trucks), but Beneath the 12-Mile Reef managed a canny and well-timed mix of 1954’s then current obsessions to drive it to big box-office: diving, tourism, Robert Wagner in the days when he was Tom Cruise and the brand spanking new CinemaScope process – ‘The miracle you see without glasses!’ Part of that now long lost genre of working man’s pictures that was once the backbone and mainstay of the industry, it sets Gilbert Roland’s family of Greek sponge fishermen against Richard Boone’s clan of native Floridians who regard them as poachers on their turf as they both take bigger chances in search of their lucrative but increasingly elusive harvest. And, wouldn’t you know it, Robert Wagner’s young Greek-American Adonis falls for Terry Moore’s all-American Gwyneth, much to the anger of Peter Graves’ rival for her affections, leading to an escalation in the families’ rivalry that takes the film into vendetta territory that costs lives and threatens the young lovers, who escape to the deadly and treacherous 12-Mile Reef that has already killed SpongeBob Wagner’s brother… and yes, there is a giant octopus.

It has to be said that when we finally get to the 12-Mile Reef it fails to live up to its big buildup. It’s dangerous enough to satisfy the requirements of the story but the footage just doesn’t live up to the hype because there’s not much of a genuine sense of awe and wonder to it. No matter, there’s more than enough to enjoy, topped off with a stunning and incredibly atmospheric score by Bernard Herrmann that’s one of the very greatest ever written for any film, conjuring up the otherworldly foreboding mystery and majesty of the sea more effectively than anything that fills the wide, wide screen while subtly accompanying and enhancing rather than overpowering the film. The film may be superior hokum, but Herrmann’s masterpiece is pure poetry (parts of it, especially the cue The Marker, were regularly reused in Irwin Allen’s 60s scifi TV shows like Lost in Space). And there’s always Roland’s excessively macho dancing or the excited look on Mama’s face when he promises to say a ‘Big Hello’ to her later to put a smile on your face.

For years the film was plagued by particularly crappy panned-and-scanned Public Domain releases with washed out colour before Fox Archive finally released a widescreen version, albeit extras-free and only on manufactured on demand DVD-R. Twilight Time goes considerably better with their limited edition Blu-ray that makes that already impressive transfer look especially glorious in its original ratio with the vivid colours restored (and, in a few scenes, boosted a bit too much for that 'golden hour' look, leaving the cast with Trump-like complexions), throwing in an isolated score, 44-minute documentary on Wagner and booklet as well. A must for all those who grew up with CinemaScope eyes.

[cinerama]

Originally Posted by Aclea

The plot is basically Romeo and Juliet with sponge divers and a happy ending (albeit with more than a passing nod to screenwriter ‘Buzz’ Bezzerides’ Thieves’ Highway, with sponge boats replacing trucks), but Beneath the 12-Mile Reef managed a canny and well-timed mix of 1954’s then current obsessions to drive it to big box-office: diving, tourism, Robert Wagner in the days when he was Tom Cruise and the brand spanking new CinemaScope process – ‘The miracle you see without glasses!’ Part of that now long lost genre of working man’s pictures that was once the backbone and mainstay of the industry, it sets Gilbert Roland’s family of Greek sponge fishermen against Richard Boone’s clan of native Floridians who regard them as poachers on their turf as they both take bigger chances in search of their lucrative but increasingly elusive harvest. And, wouldn’t you know it, Robert Wagner’s young Greek-American Adonis falls for Terry Moore’s all-American Gwyneth, much to the anger of Peter Graves’ rival for her affections, leading to an escalation in the families’ rivalry that takes the film into vendetta territory that costs lives and threatens the young lovers, who escape to the deadly and treacherous 12-Mile Reef that has already killed SpongeBob Wagner’s brother… and yes, there is a giant octopus.

It has to be said that when we finally get to the 12-Mile Reef it fails to live up to its big buildup. It’s dangerous enough to satisfy the requirements of the story but the footage just doesn’t live up to the hype because there’s not much of a genuine sense of awe and wonder to it. No matter, there’s more than enough to enjoy, topped off with a stunning and incredibly atmospheric score by Bernard Herrmann that’s one of the very greatest ever written for any film, conjuring up the otherworldly foreboding mystery and majesty of the sea more effectively than anything that fills the wide, wide screen while subtly accompanying and enhancing rather than overpowering the film. The film may be superior hokum, but Herrmann’s masterpiece is pure poetry (parts of it, especially the cue The Marker, were regularly reused in Irwin Allen’s 60s scifi TV shows like Lost in Space). And there’s always Roland’s excessively macho dancing or the excited look on Mama’s face when he promises to say a ‘Big Hello’ to her later to put a smile on your face.

For years the film was plagued by particularly crappy panned-and-scanned Public Domain releases with washed out colour before Fox Archive finally released a widescreen version, albeit extras-free and only on manufactured on demand DVD-R. Twilight Time goes considerably better with their limited edition Blu-ray that makes that already impressive transfer look especially glorious in its original ratio with the vivid colours restored (and, in a few scenes, boosted a bit too much for that 'golden hour' look, leaving the cast with Trump-like complexions), throwing in an isolated score, 44-minute documentary on Wagner and booklet as well. A must for all those who grew up with CinemaScope eyes.

With highly directional dialogue!

[The Great Owl]

I just ordered the Betty Grable movies, Pin-Up Girl and Mother Wore Tights, from SAE for $22.46 apiece.

I dragged my feet on purchasing these, but better late than never.

[jshaide]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I just ordered the Betty Grable movies, Pin-Up Girl and Mother Wore Tights, from SAE for $22.46 apiece.

I dragged my feet on purchasing these, but better late than never.

If these were a smidge cheaper, I'd probably go wilding. I haven't bought from TT in a long long time.

[ilenewoodsfan99]

Managed to get my hands on The Song of Bernadette for a decent price. Very happy with my purchase! Now to wait for a decent price for Leave Her to Heaven.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

It's also interesting to see that spoiling key moments and plot developments isn't a new phenomenon. I can't count the number of times I've watched a trailer from the 40s or 50s and been amazed at how much it gives away.

A film I watched fairly recently called Berserk (1967) with Joan Crawford had the trailer revealing Michael Gough's character getting killed. Just seemed odd giving so much of the film away.

[ilenewoodsfan99]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

It's also interesting to see that spoiling key moments and plot developments isn't a new phenomenon. I can't count the number of times I've watched a trailer from the 40s or 50s and been amazed at how much it gives away.

I thankfully watched the trailer to Black Narcissus after watching the movie but a key scene is almost completely spoiled in it. It's one of the reasons I tend to leave the room while on "commercial break" for TCM.

[mja345]

Nice review on "Harry and Walter", Aclea. It's a film that sounds great on paper, but isn't executed properly and ends up being quite a mess. When I hear, "Everyone had a great time on set" during a 70s film, I usually think it translates to, "We did an absolute ton of drugs, but we forgot to make coherent, consistently watchable film."

[Aclea]

Suddenly it all makes a horrible kind of sense...