Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[Gunsnroses092789]

Just got an updated email from SAE omitting the reprinting part and adding this to the end:

No further details will be made available until after July 1, 2020.

[fatboyslim142]

Twilight Time Update:

[belcherman]

Originally Posted by whiteberry

I agree. Maybe someday Indicator will release a "Jack Lemmon At Columbia" set with the titles you mentioned plus Good Neighbor Sam, Under The Yum Yum Tree, The Notorious Landlady, Operation Mad Ball, You Can't Run Away From It, Three For The Show, and The Wackiest Ship In The Army.

That would be a hell of a set. Too bad that Indicator has started region-locking everything.

[Jobla]

I hope SAE will do more than just sell old stock, but I guess we'll find out come July 1st.

[fatboyslim142]

Originally Posted by belcherman

Too bad that Indicator has started region-locking everything.

They ONLY region lock when contractually made to do so.

[Gunsnroses092789]

Originally Posted by Jobla

I hope SAE will do more than just sell old stock, but I guess we'll find out come July 1st.

They may have just changed the letter to not disturb TT’s liquidation sale.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Why would they do that, when they explicitly said, after the Encore of The Train was announced, that they were not doing any more?

Disney has very little interest in putting out their own catalog titles (with some exceptions) and no interest in licensing any of them out to other labels. So why would they be interested in doing so for the Fox titles?

The only "wholesale" Blu-ray licensing out that Disney has done is with Kino. Those were only for subsidiary lines that Disney owned, like Touchstone or ABC Pictures. Now, sure, Fox would fall into that category, but the Kino Lorber Insider has clearly indicated that a new deal with Disney is not likely. So why would it be any more likely for another label, especially one whose marketing and output would be a lot smaller than Kino's?

Understood, but they did say they would be "reprinting" Twilight Time's "back catalog" which is mostly Sony and Fox titles. The Sony titles that actually did well were later re-released by Sony on MOD or 4K UHD - so its unlikely those would be released as Sony has them out already often in superior versions; and why release the Sony titles that sold poorly? The people that want the bad selling titles likely bought them already for under $10 during a sale.

Remember with the high demand OOP Fox titles all Screen Archives has to do is order a new batch of artwork, cases, and discs. No authoring, scanning, nothing - its all done already.

So, perhaps Disney is simply charging a lot more money than Fox did to sublicense the catalog titles - this might make new-to-BD titles out of range of Kino since they'd have to do new authoring (definitely), scanning (potentially), commissioned artwork, etc - the bulk of the cost, where Kino would not make enough money per title for it to be worthwhile to release the discs if the sublicense fee was too high.

On the other hand, for Twilight Time back catalog Fox titles Screen Archives just needs to Amazon Prime some cases, art, and pressed discs using all of the existing source art/disc files from the original release with no other expenditures other than the licensing - that gives screenarchives the ability to pay more per movie for licensing since they do not have to worry about the large overhead of scanning, authoring, and commissioned art like Kino would.

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by Ruined

So, perhaps Disney is simply charging a lot more money than Fox did to sublicense the catalog titles - this might make them out of range of Kino since they'd have to do new authoring, scanning, commissioned artwork, etc - the bulk of the cost, where Kino would not make enough money per title for it to be worthwhile to release the discs if the sublicense fee was too high.

Disney is not licensing or even discussing licensing any Fox titles with anyone at all at the moment: there has been a complete moratorium on any new deals since before the merger was finalised (and, in TT's case, restorations and creation of new masters for titles they had like The Iron Horse, Alien Nation and Fallen Angel, were cancelled or indefinitely postponed). None of the labels that regularly dealt with them - TT, Eureka, Kino, Shout - have been able to get new titles or renew licenses for existing releases and are simply releasing titles licensed before the sale of Fox. Disney simply aren't interested in even discussing it at the moment.

[diverdave]

Originally Posted by Aclea

None of the labels that regularly dealt with them - TT, Eureka, Kino, Shout - have been able to get new titles or renew licenses for existing releases and are simply releasing titles licensed before the sale of Fox. Disney simply aren't interested in even discussing it at the moment.

Yes, but at this point in time Disney is scrounging for pennies as evidenced by the current sale on digital movies. Licensing isn't big money, but it's easy money.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Aclea

Disney is not licensing or even discussing licensing any Fox titles with anyone at all at the moment: there has been a complete moratorium on any new deals since before the merger was finalised (and, in TT's case, restorations and creation of new masters for titles they had like The Iron Horse, Alien Nation and Fallen Angel, were cancelled or indefinitely postponed). None of the labels that regularly dealt with them - TT, Eureka, Kino, Shout - have been able to get new titles or renew licenses for existing releases and are simply releasing titles licensed before the sale of Fox. Disney simply aren't interested in even discussing it at the moment.

Originally Posted by diverdave

Yes, but at this point in time Disney is scrounging for pennies as evidenced by the current sale on digital movies. Licensing isn't big money, but it's easy money.

Yup, all of Disney's major revenue streams have been indefinitely shut down - namely their theme parks and theatrical releases. Even when they open up their revenue is going to be pittance compared to what it used to be for a very long time. Not so exciting to go to the magic kingdom with all the guests and staff wearing masks and gloves with social distancing guidelines.

If they aren't looking to make some cash sublicensing given the dire financial blow they must sustain for the indefinite future they are nuts!

[Aclea]

You're seriously overestimating the revenue licensing BDs brings in and seriously underestimating their ability to borrow billions to tide them over.

[bruceames]

I don't know if this means they actually bought the Twilight Time label and business, or will just sell remaining inventory. If the former, then they would definitely try to capitalize on the purchase and release more titles (including OOP). Or they could just sit on remaining stock and price them as they see fit until they're gone ("indefinitely" don't mean years, just that they don't know how long). Don't think there is any in-between, such as getting more copies pressed or reissuing some in-demand OOP titles.

[diverdave]

Originally Posted by Aclea

You're seriously overestimating the revenue licensing BDs brings in and seriously underestimating their ability to borrow billions to tide them over.

I am not.

I said they were scrounging for pennies.

Licensing is pennies or maybe not even that much. It's a pittance, but it's easy money with no capital investment. And if you do the TT model, you collect the royalties up front.

They are in the process of borrowing billions and will need it. That's no reason to leave easy money on the table, even if it is pennies.

[BluProofie]

My first order(placed on Sunday) shipped on Tuesday and arrived today in excellent condition.

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by diverdave

I am not.

I said they were scrounging for pennies.

Licensing is pennies or maybe not even that much. It's a pittance, but it's easy money with no capital investment. And if you do the TT model, you collect the royalties up front.

They are in the process of borrowing billions and will need it. That's no reason to leave easy money on the table, even if it is pennies.

BluRay sales are not going to give Disney any massive profit if none at all. Do you think the execs running Disney who already laid off most of the Fox Home Video are going to license out some old films because a few of us diehard classic film fans want them? No, they are going to take out a line of easy credit and dedicate their money to their Disney+ streaming service with maybe the rare title from Criterion which probably aren't going to see new masters or restorations or least not from the Mouse.

EDIT: Heck Disney can't even be bothered to release their classic non-animated films on BluRay or only limit it to the Disney Movie Club where there overpriced and lacking the extras the DVDs had.

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by diverdave

I am not.

I said they were scrounging for pennies.

Licensing is pennies or maybe not even that much. It's a pittance, but it's easy money with no capital investment. And if you do the TT model, you collect the royalties up front.

They are in the process of borrowing billions and will need it. That's no reason to leave easy money on the table, even if it is pennies.

Sorry, but you clearly are. And it's not easy money: there's negotiating deals, the legal department's man hours, the approvals process not just for the deal but for artwork and extras, sourcing master material (and possibly remastering) and delivery materials, working out any profit participants payments, etc, etc, etc. All of which takes up time and manpower that has to be justified in a division that has already seen almost all of Fox's home video staff fired, most of Disney's furloughed - many of whom won't have jobs to come back to - and those left having to prioritize the most lucrative revenue streams (stream being the operative word). Which isn't going to include 'dead inventory' back catalog titles on physical media. It's time consuming and not the best use of limited resources from a corporate point of view - many companies refer to them as coffee money deals because they just pay for the office coffee: it's easier just to tell your staff to make do with tap water.

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by Aclea

Sorry, but you clearly are. And it's not easy money: there's negotiating deals, the legal department's man hours, the approvals process not just for the deal but for artwork and extras, sourcing master material (and possibly remastering) and delivery materials, working out any profit participants payments, etc, etc, etc. All of which takes up time and manpower that has to be justified in a division that has already seen almost all of Fox's home video staff fired, most of Disney's furloughed - many of whom won't have jobs to come back to - and those left having to prioritize the most lucrative revenue streams. Which isn't going to include 'dead inventory' back catalog titles on physical media. It's time consuming and not the best use of limited resources from a corporate point of view - many companies refer to them as coffee money deals because they just pay for the office coffee: it's easier just to tell your staff to make do with tap water.

Not to mention Disney can't even be bothered with releasing their older non-animated films like 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea or Swiss Family Robinson in more than barebone editions only available via the Disney Movie Club which makes them unavailable for many people. If they show that little care for their own back catalog never to mention what they think of Fox's back catalog which I imagine is even less interest to them on home video.

[bdgking]

Updating the low quantity titles remaining from twilight time . The criteria I am using is to be on this list there must be 160 units or less . All are under that at the time of this post . Only for Twilight Time .

Low quantity update for SAE below the Twilight Time list :

More titles added from my post last night .

Here is a list of the lowest quantity titles remaining at Twilight Time . I am going to abbreviate the titles names to save time .
Units available might be slightly different now but at the time I posted these are lowest quantities available . Many will sell out today

Julia = 9
W.heights = 12
I could go on sing = 11
p. of blood river = 6
c. liberty = 3
s. & iris = 2
g.guys = 23
gidget = 73
c.land = 98
g. of evil = 134
angel = 80
b.lance = 108
b.train = 69
a. love = 95
sherwood forrest = 27
q. american = 148
w. pool = 109
lawman =156
c.from castle = 134
o.crude = 119
j.james = 149


SAE very low quantities

Peyton Place ,Strange Invaders & Flaming Star all sold out yesterday
Today Inferno just sold out as well as Theatre of Blood & Eye Of The Needle



Cutters Way & Zelig are both over 50 remaining but not by much

All will be sold out via both sites once they are gone

[Michael24]

Originally Posted by bdgking

p. of blood river = 6

Wow! I didn't think it'd be that low. Glad I went ahead and ordered it a couple days instead of waiting.

[SonnybytheSea]

I'm hoping that if SAE is going to reprint the Twilight Time OOP titles, that they do Box Sets for François Truffaut and Woody Allen.....

Originally Posted by Aclea

Disney is not licensing or even discussing licensing any Fox titles with anyone at all at the moment: there has been a complete moratorium on any new deals since before the merger was finalised (and, in TT's case, restorations and creation of new masters for titles they had like The Iron Horse, Alien Nation and Fallen Angel, were cancelled or indefinitely postponed). None of the labels that regularly dealt with them - TT, Eureka, Kino, Shout - have been able to get new titles or renew licenses for existing releases and are simply releasing titles licensed before the sale of Fox. Disney simply aren't interested in even discussing it at the moment.

I'm just wondering how the Disney take over would have effected licensing deals already set before the merger? Disney can prevent further licensing deals, but anything before the merger would have to wait until the contract runs out. They couldn't prevent the labels from releasing what they already paid for!
Didn't Shout mention that Fox never allows restorations and creation of new masters of their titles, all masters were done in house and basically any label that wanted a title needed to use Fox's approved master?