Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[Rory]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

The first two are on Vudu in HD. I have only watched Gwangi but it definitely is not a DVD upscale.

GWANGI is also currently streaming in HD on the Warner Archive service. The transfer runs hot and cold, and is probably what they'd use for a Blu-ray release, which would probably only rate a 3.4 or possible 4 on the Blu-ray.com picture rating scale.

[jmclick]

Originally Posted by Widescreenfilmguy

The 3 year contract in the US is up in June 2016, someone else could contract it after that but it hasn't even sold out the 3,000 units TT produced

I think films like The Driver would sell a lot more units if they were issued by a company other than Twilight Time and available somewhere other than the SAE website. I wonder what the initial pressing of all those "Wal-Mart Exclusive" releases averages out to be, and how many impulse purchases are made when the retail price is discounted down to $7.88 - $9.99?

I was amazed at how many times The Boy in the Striped Pajamas (a magnificent movie, by the way) went out of stock at my local Wal-Mart when they were selling it on the racks for $5.00. And we know how fast titles sell through when Amazon promotes them at a bargain price ...

[belcherman]

Originally Posted by jmclick

I think films like The Driver would sell a lot more units if they were issued by a company other than Twilight Time and available somewhere other than the SAE website. I wonder what the initial pressing of all those "Wal-Mart Exclusive" releases averages out to be, and how many impulse purchases are made when the retail price is discounted down to $7.88 - $9.99?

I was amazed at how many times The Boy in the Striped Pajamas (a magnificent movie, by the way) went out of stock at my local Wal-Mart when they were selling it on the racks for $5.00. And we know how fast titles sell through when Amazon promotes them at a bargain price ...

Yes, but how much money do the studios make on those bargain bin sales? I would think that after Walmart and the rack-jobbers take their cut, the studios are probably losing money on a $5 blu ray.

[jmclick]

Originally Posted by belcherman

Yes, but how much money do the studios make on those bargain bin sales? I would think that after Walmart and the rack-jobbers take their cut, the studios are probably losing money on a $5 blu ray.

The profit on the bargain bin sales is (obviously) lower than the profits the studios make selling at MSRP. But that's only one part of the equation. Another pertinent question is, how much do the studios lose when they have to warehouse unsold inventory for lengthy amounts of time?

The same dynamic applies to many aspects of the retail world. Take books. The initial profits are tremendous ... enough that there's still money to be made when discounting 40% or 50% off. As the market becomes saturated and a title loses that initial popularity, inventory starts accumulating in the warehouses, and publishers start to lose money on storage, taxes, etc. Better to cut their losses and move on.

Other factors that come into play in the retail world are "return penalties"; in some industries, a retailer can return unsold inventory back to the manufacturer, but there's a financial penalty involved ... which often makes it advantageous for a retailer to discount an item heavily and use it as a "draw", attracting customers who will then spend additional money on non-discounted items. I have no real knowledge of the specific factors applicable to home video, but I can assure you of one thing: if the studios weren't adding money to their bottom lines, they wouldn't be releasing films on DVD or blu-ray at all.

[Angel Eyes]

Originally Posted by jmclick

I think films like The Driver would sell a lot more units if they were issued by a company other than Twilight Time and available somewhere other than the SAE website. I wonder what the initial pressing of all those "Wal-Mart Exclusive" releases averages out to be, and how many impulse purchases are made when the retail price is discounted down to $7.88 - $9.99?

I was amazed at how many times The Boy in the Striped Pajamas (a magnificent movie, by the way) went out of stock at my local Wal-Mart when they were selling it on the racks for $5.00. And we know how fast titles sell through when Amazon promotes them at a bargain price ...

I doubt it because 1. It's not that great of a film and 2. An obscure 70's title to the average walmart movie buyer? That would be one of the ones I see just sitting in the bin going nowhere. Yeah it would sell a few more due to the price but most people under the age of 40 are not going to be picking up this title.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Angel Eyes

I doubt it because 1. It's not that great of a film and 2. An obscure 70's title to the average walmart movie buyer? That would be one of the ones I see just sitting in the bin going nowhere. Yeah it would sell a few more due to the price but most people under the age of 40 are not going to be picking up this title.

When I purchased the DVD of the Driver about ten years ago, I found it in a discount bin for $5 and for about a year after I saw several copies of it still sitting in that same discount bin. That's a lot of plastic sitting around gathering dust. I'm sure Fox lost a lot of money on that. With the blu-ray, people who actually want to see the movie can seek it out and pay accordingly and Fox doesn't lose out because TT is paying everything up front to licence it.

[Dirk Pitt]

It now has been 9 days since my first order and it still says pending at the website. I haven't tried to email because I know they're busy due to the sale but I kind of want to order some more but think I should wait until I receive what I already ordered. Oh well. Just bored today anxious to receive my blu rays.

[PuppetMasterBlu]

Originally Posted by jmclick

I think films like The Driver would sell a lot more units if they were issued by a company other than Twilight Time and available somewhere other than the SAE website.

Some of their titles? Yes but probably not that one. It's a little too obscure for that im afraid.

[Widescreenfilmguy]

Originally Posted by jmclick

I think films like The Driver would sell a lot more units if they were issued by a company other than Twilight Time and available somewhere other than the SAE website. I wonder what the initial pressing of all those "Wal-Mart Exclusive" releases averages out to be, and how many impulse purchases are made when the retail price is discounted down to $7.88 - $9.99?

I was amazed at how many times The Boy in the Striped Pajamas (a magnificent movie, by the way) went out of stock at my local Wal-Mart when they were selling it on the racks for $5.00. And we know how fast titles sell through when Amazon promotes them at a bargain price ...

Sadly the studios don't care about most of their older titles and and retailers have cheapened the value of Bluray to the point that some don't think any title is worth more than the discount bins. This is the Twilight Time of physical media and boutique labels seem to be the only way most of these films will get released. It's a win/win situation for the studio as they have nothing to lose this way but it definitely costs more to the consumer.

[Angel Eyes]

Originally Posted by Widescreenfilmguy

Sadly the studios don't care about most of their older titles and and retailers have cheapened the value of Bluray to the point that some don't think any title is worth more than the discount bins. This is the Twilight Time of physical media and boutique labels seem to be the only way most of these films will get released. It's a win/win situation for the studio as they have nothing to lose this way but it definitely costs more to the consumer.

Sadly lots of the titles that have not made it to blu ray that we are waiting for I fear now will never make it to blu ray. The might be sold digitally in HD but they will never make it to physical media. Might have to go back and rebuy some of the DVD's that I got rid of in hopes of a BD release.

[belcherman]

Originally Posted by jmclick

The profit on the bargain bin sales is (obviously) lower than the profits the studios make selling at MSRP. But that's only one part of the equation. Another pertinent question is, how much do the studios lose when they have to warehouse unsold inventory for lengthy amounts of time?

The same dynamic applies to many aspects of the retail world. Take books. The initial profits are tremendous ... enough that there's still money to be made when discounting 40% or 50% off. As the market becomes saturated and a title loses that initial popularity, inventory starts accumulating in the warehouses, and publishers start to lose money on storage, taxes, etc. Better to cut their losses and move on.

Other factors that come into play in the retail world are "return penalties"; in some industries, a retailer can return unsold inventory back to the manufacturer, but there's a financial penalty involved ... which often makes it advantageous for a retailer to discount an item heavily and use it as a "draw", attracting customers who will then spend additional money on non-discounted items. I have no real knowledge of the specific factors applicable to home video, but I can assure you of one thing: if the studios weren't adding money to their bottom lines, they wouldn't be releasing films on DVD or blu-ray at all.

Well, I don't pretend to fully understand the economics of it, but I would think that if it were profitable for the studios to release their catalog titles themselves, they would release more titles themselves. The truth is, I'm not sure anyone really knows. On the one hand, you have people saying that Twilight Time can't sell 3000 copies of most of their titles at $30/per through an obscure outlet that most blu ray buyers have never heard of, as if that proves the blu ray market for catalog titles is dead. On the other hand, you have people saying that Sony would sell 100,000 units of The Way We Were if they sold it at $10/per through retail channels. The truth is probably somewhere in between, but we'll probably never know exactly where in between.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by belcherman

Well, I don't pretend to fully understand the economics of it, but I would think that if it were profitable for the studios to release their catalog titles themselves, they would release more titles themselves. The truth is, I'm not sure anyone really knows. On the one hand, you have people saying that Twilight Time can't sell 3000 copies of most of their titles at $30/per through an obscure outlet that most blu ray buyers have never heard of, as if that proves the blu ray market for catalog titles is dead. On the other hand, you have people saying that Sony would sell 100,000 units of The Way We Were if they sold it at $10/per through retail channels. The truth is probably somewhere in between, but we'll probably never know exactly where in between.

There are actual sales charts of how many copies sell of Blu-ray releases. Some catalog titles sell really poorly. It's really only the popular ones which sell much bigger numbers.

[docc]

Originally Posted by Dirk Pitt

It now has been 9 days since my first order and it still says pending at the website. I haven't tried to email because I know they're busy due to the sale but I kind of want to order some more but think I should wait until I receive what I already ordered. Oh well. Just bored today anxious to receive my blu rays.

Hang in there. An order I placed on Mar 28 for 1 movie shipped on the 10th day

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by belcherman

Well, I don't pretend to fully understand the economics of it, but I would think that if it were profitable for the studios to release their catalog titles themselves, they would release more titles themselves. The truth is, I'm not sure anyone really knows. On the one hand, you have people saying that Twilight Time can't sell 3000 copies of most of their titles at $30/per through an obscure outlet that most blu ray buyers have never heard of, as if that proves the blu ray market for catalog titles is dead. On the other hand, you have people saying that Sony would sell 100,000 units of The Way We Were if they sold it at $10/per through retail channels. The truth is probably somewhere in between, but we'll probably never know exactly where in between.

it might sell somewhere in between, but according to Nick Redman, the retailers are no longer willing to take on more than 1 (in the case he cited) copy.

that info is from this interview:

https://dvdnewsflash.wordpress.com/t...ewed-in-depth/

I posted it in the TT sale thread. I know many of the long time TT followers/fans have probably read it, but if there are people like me (just discovered them not too long ago,) this is a fantastic read.

the first few questions are dull, but the meat of the article (the TT business model) is fascinating.

[kataxu36]

so my order hasn't shipped and its been almost 2 weeks. what gives??

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by jmclick

I think films like The Driver would sell a lot more units if they were issued by a company other than Twilight Time and available somewhere other than the SAE website. I wonder what the initial pressing of all those "Wal-Mart Exclusive" releases averages out to be, and how many impulse purchases are made when the retail price is discounted down to $7.88 - $9.99?

I was amazed at how many times The Boy in the Striped Pajamas (a magnificent movie, by the way) went out of stock at my local Wal-Mart when they were selling it on the racks for $5.00. And we know how fast titles sell through when Amazon promotes them at a bargain price ...

You could make this point with some of their more mass market titles like Sleepless in Seattle or Philadelphia. However even then, the new label would know 3,000 of their customers are already off the table, and I bet for Kino and other such labels 3,000 is a big deal.

I'd love to see Enemy Mine and Rollerball released but I just don't see anyone (TT included) doing another release when 3,000 copies are already out there and took so long to sell.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by MikeZ.

$35.00 for a movie solely to look at a woman you find attractive?

Google Images is free.

$35.00 Blu-rays do not have ransomware viruses that stop your web browser dead in its tracks.

Another piece of Great Advice from The Great Owl. I'm saving the world one post at a time.


In other news...

I just received my shipment notice from Screen Archives Entertainment for The Song of Bernadette.

[Dirk Pitt]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

You could make this point with some of their more mass market titles like Sleepless in Seattle or Philadelphia. However even then, the new label would know 3,000 of their customers are already off the table, and I bet for Kino and other such labels 3,000 is a big deal.

I'd love to see Enemy Mine and Rollerball released but I just don't see anyone (TT included) doing another release when 3,000 copies are already out there and took so long to sell.

Rollerball sold out under 12 months. I have a good collection of the old vintage Magnetic Videos on vhs and would love to see more of them released by TT.

[belcherman]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

it might sell somewhere in between, but according to Nick Redman, the retailers are no longer willing to take on more than 1 (in the case he cited) copy.

that info is from this interview:

https://dvdnewsflash.wordpress.com/t...ewed-in-depth/

I posted it in the TT sale thread. I know many of the long time TT followers/fans have probably read it, but if there are people like me (just discovered them not too long ago,) this is a fantastic read.

the first few questions are dull, but the meat of the article (the TT business model) is fascinating.

Thanks for the great link, I hadn't seen it before. Two interesting things I gleaned from the interview:

1. For each of the 3000 discs in the average release, it costs Twilight Time $10 just in licensing fees.
2. Other costs, manufacturing, overhead, etc., amount to another $5.

So, at $30 per disc, they need to sell 1500 discs to break even, more if some of those are sold at the $20 sale price. Since most titles haven't sold out, it doesn't sound like anyone's getting rich. Of course, titles such as Fright Night help to subsidize some of the slower selling titles.

[Dirk Pitt]

Originally Posted by belcherman

Thanks for the great link, I hadn't seen it before. Two interesting things I gleaned from the interview:

1. For each of the 3000 discs in the average release, it costs Twilight Time $10 just in licensing fees.
2. Other costs, manufacturing, overhead, etc., amount to another $5.

So, at $30 per disc, they need to sell 1500 discs to break even, more if some of those are sold at the $20 sale price. Since most titles haven't sold out, it doesn't sound like anyone's getting rich. Of course, titles such as Fright Night help to subsidize some of the slower selling titles.

Makes you wonder if TT will try to release more Horror/Cult films like Fright Night and Christine to generate more dollars? Not talking about the gross out campy films you see from Code Red but the more intellectual films that also can have a cult following. The Dark Secret of Harvest Home would sell out in a month. Films like Communion starring Chris Walkin and Fire in the Sky starring DB Sweeney would sell out quick.