Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[timothy ramzyk]

Originally Posted by NoirFan

Firstly, he asserts that Criterion 'in the 1980's' (which is relevant, how?) 'weren't even really like film people', when Peter Becker and Jonathan Turell were the second generation (after their fathers William Becker and Saul Turell) that ran (and are still involved with) Janus Films, which is widely acknowledged as THE film distribution company that introduced countless international canon classics to American filmgoers over several decades. To suggest that the owners of the company that almost singlehandedly brought foreign films to the attention of mainstream US audiences over multiple decades are not 'film people' is patently absurd.

Presumably (also) referring to Voyager in his dismissal of the 'small group of IT nerds' who apparently comprised Criterion during this period, conveniently overlooks the fact that Voyager, in addition to publishing all of Criterion's pioneering - in terms of packaging, A/V quality, and, most crucially, extras, including the first ever commentary track, for King Kong) laserdiscs - also released numerous laserdiscs themselves, with subjects ranging from Devo to public service announcements from the 1950s, as well as dozens of CD-ROMs devoted to The Beatles, Japanese culture, Spinal Tap, and everything in-between. But yet, according to Redman, they were 'much more about the gadgetry than they were about the movies'. Presumably by this 'gadgetry' he means extra features/supplements, which Criterion originated, and which, in formative years, TT ignored completely (save the always-crucial isolated scores).

He also sniffs, 'Although I look at a lot of their titles and I think they're not important at all. What they really focus on is esoteric movies that can all come under the generalised banner of 'art.' Sure, unimportant and esoteric works from the acknowledged masters of world cinema like Bergman, Ozu, Renoir and several dozen others besides, not to mention all of the titans of American cinema like Ford, Hawks, Welles, etc. Obviously, Criterion have released their (relative to the breadth and depth of the entire 800 title catalog) small share of questionable and/or unabashedly commercial/genre films, but the vast majority make up, simply put, the very foundation of cinema, and sneeringly putting quotations around the word 'art' as if to suggest that those who produce, buy, and enjoy these films are somehow dishonest about their true taste in film won't change that.

Meanwhile, although there are certainly multiple gems and worthwhile mainstream middle-brow studio films in the TT collection, they are in no position to airily wave off 'a lot of (Criterion's) titles' as 'not important at all' or as bewildering deep-dish 'esoterica' because, what, they don't have Charles Bronson in them? His sweeping generalizations about Criterion's output (and, by extension, those who have eclectic, wide-ranging taste that isn't entirely confined to American studio films released during the 1950's-1980's) are both easily debunked and highly irritating.

Of course, his comments won't stop me from buying and enjoying many of their releases, but his multiple rants about other labels, online forums such as this one, and negative reviews (or even ones that merely point out technical shortcomings), are tiresome indeed.

Wow, I already don't have a lot of respect for Twilight Time's business model, it doesn't help to find out they're kinda self-important jerks to boot.

They are the label that most consistently inspires groans in my film haunts, because when they acquire a title they do little more than port the studio master as is and maybe toss in a soundtrack separation for a premium price.

This is why I have 3 Twilight Time BDs and 66 Criterion, and picked up THE FURY, OLIVER! and others from the UK.

[StingingVelvet]

My personal perspective is that Criterion release a lot of stuff that would not sell anywhere near enough copies to be worth releasing at all if it weren't for the Criterion label on the box. Not saying people who buy them are blind fanboys though, I more mean the Criterion label draws attention to stuff that otherwise wouldn't get noticed.

I have seen so much complaining about Criterion from reps from TT, Kino and others on forums. They're all really jealous of the fact Criterion can release damn near anything and get sales. They just have to take the time to build up that kind of rep, like Arrow and Scream are doing slowly but surely. There's no shortcut.

[mja345]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

My personal perspective is that Criterion release a lot of stuff that would not sell anywhere near enough copies to be worth releasing at all if it weren't for the Criterion label on the box. Not saying people who buy them are blind fanboys though, I more mean the Criterion label draws attention to stuff that otherwise wouldn't get noticed.

I have seen so much complaining about Criterion from reps from TT, Kino and others on forums. They're all really jealous of the fact Criterion can release damn near anything and get sales. They just have to take the time to build up that kind of rep, like Arrow and Scream are doing slowly but surely. There's no shortcut.

I know what you mean and I mostly agree. But I'd guess some of Criterion's lower profile titles probably don't move a lot of copies (films like "La Cienaga", "A Master Builder", "My Winnipeg", "La Vie de Boheme"). If you look at most of those films, they're in very few collections on this site, full of hardcore collectors. It's just that Criterion's higher profile releases move a shitload of copies and move into the collections of buyers who really don't buy from the boutique labels at all (i.e. the Fincher films, the Wes Anderson films, etc.) Criterion can use the leverage from those monster releases to put out a bunch of lower-profile films that don't sell much.

In regards to what you are saying, I think the label this most applies to is Scream Factory. They have a number of quality horror films they've released, but there are many people, IMO, who pick up some of the true garbage they release simply because it's a SF release. I mean, anyone even considering picking up "The Garbage Pail Kids" should be talked off the ledge. Scream's released some truly awful films of late to go along with the occasional good release. They're aided by the fact that horror fans are by far the most fanatical of any genre.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by mja345

In regards to what you are saying, I think the label this most applies to is Scream Factory. They have a number of quality horror films they've released, but there are many people, IMO, who pick up some of the true garbage they release simply because it's a SF release. I mean, anyone even considering picking up "The Garbage Pail Kids" should be talked off the ledge. Scream's released some truly awful films of late to go along with the occasional good release. They're aided by the fact that horror fans are by far the most fanatical of any genre.

Yeah exactly, but as an 80's horror fan a Scream release DOES get extra attention from me, which is more what I was getting at. Anything Scream announces I research and check out to see if I want it. For many Criterion is the same thing. Not me really, but for many.

I don't think every Criterion sells super well, but they have an instant audience ready to read and research what they release. Kino and Twilight Time don't, as of now, but they could easily get there in a handful of years. It just takes patience and pleasing your audience, which Criterion and Scream have built up over a number of years.

[filmmusic]

I'm in for Born Free, Sense and Sensibility and Mysterious Island!!

[BarnDoor]

Good set of announcements. Definitely down for Scorpio, Fatherland, Broken Lance and The Detective, and 1984 if it contains the original score. I'll probably double dip on Mysterious Island if it's a new restoration, but I think they would have mentioned that.

[RobertLuketic]

I'm in for MI, Sinatras and Broken Lance

[AJHakari]

Definitely in for 1984 and Shadows and Fog, an Allen film that's actually improved the more times I've seen it.

[belcherman]

Originally Posted by dsman71

December is Frank Sinatras 100th birthday, anyone think TT might have licensed some of his films for December ? (Tony Rome)

The Man With the Golden Arm and The Manchurian Candidate would both be welcome.

[belcherman]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

A war movie would be welcomed .

Hell in the Pacific and The Bridge at Remagen would both get my money.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by belcherman

The Man With the Golden Arm and The Manchurian Candidate would both be welcome.

Is there anything wrong with this Bluray?
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-M...Blu-ray/20071/

also, i see this is region free, in case you're interested:
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-M...lu-ray/129553/

[nitin]

where are these announcements? Not on FB or twitter as far as I can see.

[tallrichard]

I hate this...another freakin shopping list...hopefully my wife won't expect much for Christmas, gotta make up for overspending on TT somewhere....lol

Mysterious Island
Broken Lance
Kings Go Forth
The Detective
Scorpio

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by belcherman

The Man With the Golden Arm and The Manchurian Candidate would both be welcome.

The former is WB and the latter already has a BD (with extras). Pride and the Passion, Can-Can and Cast a Giant Shadow seem like eventual possibilities though.

[Page14]

Might double dip on Mysterious Island depending on added extra features or better picture quality (although I thought the first release was already great!). And Born Free is a possibility. I'll need to read up on the rest.

[PowellPressburger]

Thrilled SCORPIO will be getting a BLU release!

[rkolinski]

Broken Lance, Sense and Sensibility, Born Free, Nineteen Eighty-Four, Kings Go Forth, The Detective and Maybe a double dip on Mysterious Island if the new release is better in anyway over the previous release (special features, PQ, AQ). Have to save the others for the possible autograph announcement (maybe that Frank Sinatra autograph on the Detective or Kings Go Forth - ).

[Aunt Peg]

Not many for me. Only Shadows and Fog & Born Free.

[jshaide]

In for BROKEN LANCE and MYSTERIOUS ISLAND.

[belcherman]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

Is there anything wrong with this Bluray?
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-M...Blu-ray/20071/

Nothing, except I forgot it was released. Funny, it's on my Amazon wishlist. Maybe I should buy it. 😄