HDR Discussion Thread

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Slightly worried about losing five inches but if I scoot my recliner up a bit it should be fine. Hitting right at a $1,000 made the wife much easier to convince. What are your settings roughly? I know the basics, movie mode and calibrate with AVS Tools. More asking if you have color space on native or auto for HDR, your player on auto or 4:4:4, stuff like that. If you don't mind saying.

Color space on Auto and on the player I have it set to 4:4:4. We use different players though, and I know mine automatically properly downconverts when necessary. Not sure about the Sony.

[Vangeli]

The black bars look like that on my KS850D. Vizio's displays aren't perfect by far, but for dim-room lighting controlled viewing, they fare better.

And they're no slouch with HDR. The beginning of Man of Steel with all the explosions on Krypton is searing.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by Vangeli

The black bars look like that on my KS850D. Vizio's displays aren't perfect by far, but for dim-room lighting controlled viewing, they fare better.

And they're no slouch with HDR. The beginning of Man of Steel with all the explosions on Krypton is searing.

You must have gotten a very bad panel. That's a shame.

It's very obvious what was done to the settings of the TV on the right in those pictures.

[Vangeli]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

You must have gotten a very bad panel. That's a shame.

It's very obvious what was done to the settings of the TV on the right in those pictures.

At the press event they set each panel to the default cinematic/movie/calibrated settings, and let the press tinker with and even reset them.

But that doesn't matter. Sure, the $3k QLED set has better color, but the backlight is still so very flawed against a $1k Vizio set. That's the angle Vizio is using for 2017 and it's an angle I prefer over the peak brightness angle. Especially at that price.

[2themax]

Originally Posted by Vangeli

It's the same hardware as the 2016 model, (they got rid of the brushed aluminum finish a few months ago, so people claiming "it's a new model because of the anodized finish" are wrong,) the only difference being that it has a major software overhaul and the tablet remote is replaced with a standard remote with more buttons.

The 2016 model will be receiving this same software update this summer, as it is indeed still the same hardware. Whether or not Vizio allows current owners to get the new standard remote remains to be seen, however.

Also, the 55" is now a VA panel.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Vangeli

From Vizio's 2017 press event yesterday, Vizio M-Series Vs. Samsung's new hyper-expensive QLED series.



No sort of calibration can get the black bars any darker on the Samsung. This is what full-array local dimming affords you. The Samsung panels get brighter for sure, but it uses vertical (plain stupid for 2.35:1 content) edge-lit zones. If you watch TV in a dim room, get the Vizio M or P-Series. Hell, even the new FALD E-Series is better and cheaper(!) than Samsung's non-active backlight 7000-series.

Just got confirmation from someone in attendance that the Samsung on the right is an MU7000, Not a Qled TV. The MU7000 is very different from the Q7, so all the comments so far are basically meaningless. Tho a Vizio with 128 zones will have better uniformity for sure.

[Vangeli]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Just got confirmation from someone in attendance that the Samsung on the right is an MU7000, Not a Qled TV. The MU7000 is very different from the Q7, so all the comments so far are basically meaningless. Tho a Vizio with 128 zones will have better uniformity for sure.

Yes, the bottom image is the E-Series against the MU7000. The top image is the M-Series against the Samsung's QLED.

[StingingVelvet]

Those pictures are way off. If those were anywhere near accurate then the Samsungs would not get the rave reviews they do. The Vizio does have better blacks though. I don't think anyone disputes that. It comes down to whether you prefer better blacks through local dimming or better color and HDR. I chose the later, because the whole point is getting a TV that makes UHDs shine.

Another issue is for me was that the 2014 Vizio I was using for a couple years had totally unusable local dimming. All the reviews touted it, but when I got it home the banding and other horrible side-effects made it totally useless to any half-videophile. With that disabled the blacks were pretty average. Now, they might have improved the technology for the 2016 P series, but I am still super wary of it for this reason. Even one little bloom anomaly or whatever and I'd be in the menu turning it off. On that basis the Samsung actually has slightly superior contrast ratio.

Edit: Oh yeah, and some reviews mentioned the Vizio local dimming crushes blacks. They mentioned loss detail like it was no big deal but it would be for me. Having just totally written off SDR conversion because of crush it would be a deal-breaker.

[Geoff D]

Depends on how good the dimming is for me, I wouldn't just turn it off by default...but then I'm coming from a premium Sony TV which has some of the best local dimming in the business IMO and it's not even full array but edge lit. I couldn't live with LCD blacks otherwise, they're desperately poor without dimming enabled (even on a VA panel, never mind an IPS, urgh) and the numerous panel flaws are also drastically reduced with dimming turned on. Frame dimming is kinda shite though.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Depends on how good the dimming is for me, I wouldn't just turn it off by default...but then I'm coming from a premium Sony TV which has some of the best local dimming in the business IMO and it's not even full array but edge lit. I couldn't live with LCD blacks otherwise, they're desperately poor without dimming enabled (even on a VA panel, never mind an IPS, urgh) and the numerous panel flaws are also drastically reduced with dimming turned on. Frame dimming is kinda shite though.

I've been using LCD blacks for ten years and never minded them, and back then I'm sure they were super shit. I guess it just depends on the person. I never had a plasma, which likely helps. Also, like HeatEquation, I have always used bias lighting so I could have a high backlight and rich blacks.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I've been using LCD blacks for ten years and never minded them, and back then I'm sure they were super shit. I guess it just depends on the person. I never had a plasma, which likely helps. Also, like HeatEquation, I have always used bias lighting so I could have a high backlight and rich blacks.

You have to check out some of the YouTube videos on The HDR Channel on your new TV: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCve...FNipzeAGBI5t9g

This is zmarty's channel, who is actually a poster on here. The videos look fantastic.

[Vangeli]

Shadow detail is darker but not too horribly. Here's the P-Series vs an LG OLED at the same event:

[HeatEquation]

Now Vizio P is being compared to OLED. This is the same type of marketing done by every manufacturer, so fair play to the little guys over at Vizio. But surely people, especially the ones on this forum, as well as on AVS, aren't this gullible.

[Vangeli]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Now Vizio P is being compared to OLED. This is the same type of marketing done by every manufacturer, so fair play to the little guys over at Vizio. But surely people, especially the ones on this forum, as well as on AVS, aren't this gullible.

I have a Samsung KS850D, a Vizio P65, and an LG OLED (can't recall the model but it's 1080p 3D). They all have their strengths and they all have their weaknesses. The dim-room comparisons from Vizio certainly favor Vizio because their angle is again, the FALD backlight. Edge-lit is flawed in the dark. That's not how it seems most people care to watch movies, but to some of us, that's important.

My P65 is completely screwed up; I've had to get it replaced a few times yet I still prefer it because FALD is better in the dark. OLED isn't perfect either. I only watch 3D movies on my LG because network logos (especially bad when binging Hulu) burn in, and it's older and not 4K HDR. I use the Samsung as a 55" curved 4K HDR computer monitor, and it's pretty amazing in that regard. We all have our reasons.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by Chordata

I have a modest XBR65X850D, and my 4k player is the Xbox One S. I know....neither are overly impressive. They work for me though.

I'm a complete HDR noob. Both devices are supposed to have HDR. My question is -- is that something I have to 'turn on'? Thanks for humoring me.

In case anyone else encounters this, to enable HDR on the Sony, go to Settings --> External Inputs --> choose your input and make it "Enhanced".

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Vangeli

I have a Samsung KS850D, a Vizio P65, and an LG OLED (can't recall the model but it's 1080p 3D). They all have their strengths and they all have their weaknesses. The dim-room comparisons from Vizio certainly favor Vizio because their angle is again, the FALD backlight. Edge-lit is flawed in the dark. That's not how it seems most people care to watch movies, but to some of us, that's important.

Like I said above, no one is denying the FLAD makes for deeper blacks in a pitch dark room. That doesn't mean it will be everyone's instant choice though, as there are other things to consider. The Samsung is much better for HDR and color, which were my priorities, the FLAD can have flaws such as crush and blooming, and some of us use bias lights for super rich blacks no matter what.

It all comes down to your specific circumstance. If someone absolutely insisted on watching movies in a pitch black room and had no concerns with FLAD effects AND didn't care about the massive HDR brightness difference then yeah, the Vizio would be the better option. A well done review site like Rtings will lay this all out and let the buyer make an informed decision.

[Vangeli]

I bought and love all three so my bashing of edge-lighting is out of love for it to be better.

Obviously Vizio's FALD doesn't get as bright, but in a dark theater-like setting, the Samsung goes way too bright for my preference and isn't nearly as dark. P-Series is just right.

I'm considering changing up my home theater to be brighter, so a brighter display would likely be lovely. And in 2018 we'll start seeing HDMI 2.1 displays, so I'll probably update both my Samsung and Vizio around then.

I wish there were more options for 3D but alas, I rarely use my LG nowadays anyway. It's relegated to the basement with an insufficient sound system.

[DanBa]

"Thanks to two forward-thinking Pay TV systems, the future of 4K is beginning to unfold in the US. Vivicast Media salutes Marquette-Adams and Highlands Cable Group on becoming the first traditional cable systems in the nation to successfully meet the growing demand for entertainment delivered in next-generation 4K," said Stuart Smitherman, President of Vivicast Media. "Vivicast Media and SES have together greatly accelerated the delivery of compelling Ultra HD TV networks to homes across the US, including the world’s first High Dynamic Range channel, Travelxp 4K, licensed the SES-provided Ultra HD programming through Vivicast Media and have initiated their Ultra HD offerings following successful trials of the SES platform."
http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...Consumer-Ultra

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Vangeli

Obviously Vizio's FALD doesn't get as bright, but in a dark theater-like setting, the Samsung goes way too bright for my preference and isn't nearly as dark. P-Series is just right.

I don't know if six or seven hundred nits below the mastering standard can be called "just right" but I get what you're saying. I finally played with the KS8000 tonight in depth and it's definitely super bright in HDR with full backlight. Bias lighting helps here too though, which brings me to...

I'm considering changing up my home theater to be brighter, so a brighter display would likely be lovely. And in 2018 we'll start seeing HDMI 2.1 displays, so I'll probably update both my Samsung and Vizio around then.

I tested the KS8000 tonight with no bias lighting and it really is not a good experience. Thin blacks, way too bright. You could lower the backlight in HDR mode, but that will mess with the designed color saturation, built around 1,000 nits. So yeah, for someone who doesn't use a bias light I don't know if I could recommend this TV.

With my bias light on though, hot damn... super rich blacks, amazing HDR highlights. Looks stunning. The "HDR" experience I had on the KU6300 was like a McDonalds hamburger compared to this one's steakhouse filet.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I don't know if six or seven hundred nits below the mastering standard can be called "just right" but I get what you're saying. I finally played with the KS8000 tonight in depth and it's definitely super bright in HDR with full backlight. Bias lighting helps here too though, which brings me to...



I tested the KS8000 tonight with no bias lighting and it really is not a good experience. Thin blacks, way too bright. You could lower the backlight in HDR mode, but that will mess with the designed color saturation, built around 1,000 nits. So yeah, for someone who doesn't use a bias light I don't know if I could recommend this TV.

With my bias light on though, hot damn... super rich blacks, amazing HDR highlights. Looks stunning. The "HDR" experience I had on the KU6300 was like a McDonalds hamburger compared to this one's steakhouse filet.

Picked up the ks8000? Now you have to rewatch all your hdr movies lol completely different look for sure! BTW, lowering the back light a few notches doesn't significantly lower the nits, I measured it with my meter on my ks9800.