LittleBigPlanet – Over 3 Million Community Levels!

[hardcore_canadian]

Originally Posted by BlackMamba

Actually, I don't see a problem with what they're doing. If you're desperate enough to want the game earlier than everyone else then you pay a little extra (because they're taking the risk by releasing the game early). I know lots of grateful gamers that are happy this one particular store does what it does. Don't lie, if you had the chance to get LBP (or your most wanted game) early, you'd pay extra!

Also, in some cases (Bioshock for example), they just release it earlier without the extra fee.

But, I'm not going to argue with you guys, I'm just saying...

Hell yes Man! I bought Speed Racer from London Drugs a week before it came out, and payed 5 bucks more than walmart charged for it.... Love that movie

[toef]

Originally Posted by BlackMamba

Don't lie, if you had the chance to get LBP (or your most wanted game) early, you'd pay extra!

True, but that doesn't make it ok. By purchasing a game before the street date, fully knowing it should not be sold yet, you know you're doing something wrong. If you pay extra, you are essentially rewarding the store for doing something wrong.

I may occasionally speed, without getting pulled over, but that doesn't mean speeding is ok. Similarly, this store seems to sell games early, and never get caught, and now apparently it is brazen enough to actually charge more for this great service they're offering.

The problem with the broken street dates, is if whoever enforces the rules/laws/whatever-they-are-called realizes they can't, they may just not even bother with them anymore.Then all the honest local shops may be hurt, when BestBuy and CircuitCity start selling big releases a week or more before the small shops even get them in.

In any case, it will be interesting to see what happens, because of LBP getting recalled. Had the game never been recalled, this store would likely have gotten away. But now how are they going to explain to Sony where their shipment of games went, when Sony asks for them to be sent back? Fine, baby, fine!

Anyhow, let's just agree to disagree.

[hardcore_canadian]

Originally Posted by toefer

I may occasionally speed, without getting pulled over, but that doesn't mean speeding is ok. Similarly, this store seems to sell games early, and never get caught, and now apparently it is brazen enough to actually charge more for this great service they're offering.

I speed all the time. ALL THE TIME. like seriously, 99% of the time atleast.

Anyways, the street date is an agreement between the Retailer and the Distributors. We don't have to abide by it. And chances are, one or two people have picked up on this now, and they'll be sued in no time at all.

[pmac]

Originally Posted by toefer

True, but that doesn't make it ok.

"No offense", but the rest of your argument holds no water.

You are being hypocritical. You can't go and condemn an action then go and support it as well (well...you can, but you waste everyone's time that way). Whether is is wright or wrong is irrelevant.

The fact that you would do it and probably have at one point in life or another, Yet wish something bad to happen to them, befuddles me?*!?

You literally are saying...you buy this, and as soon as you get out of the door are wishing they get closed down while you go home and play that game and laugh while they are going broke because you called Sony to report them. Buy drugs then call the cops to arrest the dealer?

And to the silly arguement of "they shouldn't jack up the price"...Why the heck not?!? They have something you really want, you reward them by giving you something you are eager to have. Ever hear about supply and demand, that is what you get to be the first to have something. Ever buy from a scalper? Or how about Gas prices, same product as a year ago but it is 40% more than it was (or whatever the percentage is), they have what you want so are charging more, there is no real reason, they just can, and do, end of story. Ever see a presale on eBay for things like Webkins when the Rail strikes were on, they charged more because they were "artificially in short supply". People charged a premium.

Anyways, I have too many examples running through my head right now, but you get the idea.

Speeding is not the issue and is not a relevant argument. That can hurt people or kill people.

Like I said, no offense, not calling you anything. It is just a fact.

You should never wish bad upon others for something so trivial in life when there are so many other things to be concerned with in life.

Sorry for being long winded.

[Aaron]

I'm sure there's an answer to this somewhere but I'm too lazy to search...

Is the level editor PC based also? It's going to be a massive pain in the ass making levels with a PS3 controller. kb/m support would be nice too..

[BillCable]

Can we break this off into a Street Date thread? Cuz I want to read about LBP and couldn't care less about stores that sell the thing early (unless they're near me).

[toef]

Originally Posted by pmac

Sorry for being long winded.

"No offense" but my argument is perfectly fine. I'm not wishing anything bad against these people. The "Fine, baby, fine" thing was a joke. I was merely pointing out that people saying there's nothing wrong with it are wrong. There's a legitimate rule, it was broken, that is wrong.

If you want to use the childish argument of "rules are made to be broken" go ahead, but that will just continue the debate going.

The main thing I have a problem with is that the store is charging more than MSRP. They know they shouldn't be selling the game, but instead of risking paying a fine, they're making the customers cover that cost. In a way, it's as if the customers are paying the store to break the rules for them.

Anyway, it's impossible to find any documentation of a store being fined or sued, which makes any penalties of breaking the street date seem more like an empty threat.

Also, there's nothing hypocritical about me speeding, and saying speeding is wrong. A person can both know and do wrong.

It'd be hypocritical if I said that speeding was bad, but then made excuses for why I speed. I'm not trying to justify my speeding at all, or excluding it from the bad kind of speeding.

Plus it serves as a great analogy. I'm not saying both are on equal ground, but they share enough similarities that the comparison can be made. Most people break speed limits without feeling bad about it at all, and speed limits are simply not enforced enough to stop people from doing it.

You don't feel bad going 1 mph over the speed limit, in the same sense that stores likely don't feel bad for selling a game a day early. That doesn't mean it's not breaking a rule, or that it's not wrong. People have no problem breaking rules if a) it benefits them, and b) they don't think there will be any repercussions...I think.

I got a little long winded myself. I'll sum it up by saying it's not the wrong that I care about, as much as it is the profiting off of doing wrong.

[toef]

[Now for a post to bring the thread back]

Am I the only one that's glad that LBP was delayed? I can't remember the last time I wanted two games released on consecutive weeks, let alone just days apart from each other.

I wonder what would happen to RB2 come Tuesday afternoon when I would've brought home a new game to replace it.

One thing I didn't like about Christmas was the feeling of being overwhelmed by too many new things. If I got more than 1 game, it was hard to really enjoy any particular one, because once I loaded one up, I'd just think about playing more of the other(s).

(On a side note, this is also why I don't like renting games, because I feel like I have to rush through them to beat them before they have to be returned, so I don't get to take my time and enjoy the game.)

Not that a week will be enough time to be satisfied with RB2, but it's better than 2 days.



~~~~~

Also, does anyone know what will happen to the levels created during the beta?

Last I heard, they were going to carry them over to the full game, but will we have access to our own levels, to continue editing them, or is that option now gone? Is the LBP beta game save data (say that a few times fast) useless for the full version, or will it carry over?

[Seeking_Alpha]

Originally Posted by toefer

"No offense" but my argument is perfectly fine. I'm not wishing anything bad against these people. The "Fine, baby, fine" thing was a joke. I was merely pointing out that people saying there's nothing wrong with it are wrong. There's a legitimate rule, it was broken, that is wrong.

If you want to use the childish argument of "rules are made to be broken" go ahead, but that will just continue the debate going.

The main thing I have a problem with is that the store is charging more than MSRP. They know they shouldn't be selling the game, but instead of risking paying a fine, they're making the customers cover that cost. In a way, it's as if the customers are paying the store to break the rules for them.

Anyway, it's impossible to find any documentation of a store being fined or sued, which makes any penalties of breaking the street date seem more like an empty threat.

Also, there's nothing hypocritical about me speeding, and saying speeding is wrong. A person can both know and do wrong.

It'd be hypocritical if I said that speeding was bad, but then made excuses for why I speed. I'm not trying to justify my speeding at all, or excluding it from the bad kind of speeding.

Plus it serves as a great analogy. I'm not saying both are on equal ground, but they share enough similarities that the comparison can be made. Most people break speed limits without feeling bad about it at all, and speed limits are simply not enforced enough to stop people from doing it.

You don't feel bad going 1 mph over the speed limit, in the same sense that stores likely don't feel bad for selling a game a day early. That doesn't mean it's not breaking a rule, or that it's not wrong. People have no problem breaking rules if a) it benefits them, and b) they don't think there will be any repercussions...I think.

I got a little long winded myself. I'll sum it up by saying it's not the wrong that I care about, as much as it is the profiting off of doing wrong.

When two rational and free economic parties interact and execute a transaction both will be better off, otherwise they wouldn't have agreed.

The customer is better off is because he gets the game early (and that's worth more to him than $15). The store is better off because they get $15. Without it, the store would have not agreed because the deal would have made them worse off. How? Well they now face the chance of getting fined and losing money.

The publisher and developer get $59.99 the same thing they would have gotten if the seller followed the street date. Whats the big deal?

Do you think scalping is wrong? What's happening is actually a lot like scalping.

[pmac]

response to toefer:
(Keep in mind I am just discussing with you, no ill will)

Well that is why I left speeding out. It is a law. Laws were made because people needed to be aware that if they did bad things they would be punished.

I buy from wholesalers and the wholesalers sell pre street date...no rules about it, definitely no laws.

Mom and Pop shops have no legal agreement with Sony (or others). They all buy from Wholesalers. and they have no rule preventing them. Nothing signed nothing on paper etc.

Big shops that deal direct might have these agreements for fair trade reasons. I couldn't say because i DON'T KNOW.

I have sold and bought many items pre street date, and nothing, and I mean nothing could have prevented that.

Charging more for a game is not wrong, there is no max that you can sell something for. Its MSPR "Manufacturers "Suggested" list price. you go from there. That’s like saying if you charge less than everyone it's not fair. If you want to loose money or price yourself out of the market that’s your choice.

Suffice it to say, I will continue to look for a copy locally. My wholesalers don't deal with video games unfortunately. If I find something local in Toronto I will let people know, hopefully if anyone from this area knows of a place they will PM me as well. PLEASE

We have my gf's boys this week coming and we were all looking forward to playing it, (we even went as far as to buy another PS3 for them last week), the following week they are with their bio father, so it was a fairly big disappointment for us to get the news, but what can one do right. Just sucks to see disappointment on the little guys faces.

pmac

[toef]

Originally Posted by Seeking_Alpha

When two rational and free economic parties interact and execute a transaction both will be better off, otherwise they wouldn't have agreed.

If you want to bring economics into it, that helps prove the purpose of street date agreements.

Say, for example, that there are only two stores that sell video games, Toefer's Games and Seeking_Alpha's Entertainment.

We both got LBP in last week. These are rough economic times, and we're counting on this game to keep our stores open for another year. We both sell our games, normally, for $59.99. You are honest, and decide you will start selling your copies on Oct 27th. I started selling my copies yesterday.

On a simple level what I just did is hurt your business. I didn't run you out of town in an ethical way, by being a better store. I broke rules to bring customers in to my store, to make me money, and put you out of business. You lost potential customers, because I intentionally didn't follow the rules. Not to mention I inflated the price to $75 (because I knew you were too honest to compete with me) which falls under profiteering.

It doesn't matter how rational or "free" me or my customers are. That doesn't justify what I'm doing.

Originally Posted by pmac

response to toefer:

What's the matter? Are my posts so bad now that they can't even be quoted anymore?

Originally Posted by pmac

Mom and Pop shops have no legal agreement with Sony (or others). They all buy from Wholesalers. and they have no rule preventing them. Nothing signed nothing on paper etc.

Charging more for a game is not wrong, there is no max that you can sell something for. Its MSPR "Manufacturers "Suggested" list price. you go from there. That’s like saying if you charge less than everyone it's not fair. If you want to loose money or price yourself out of the market that’s your choice.

The first part is news to me, but I suppose it makes sense, because of how difficult it would be to have any sort of agreements with every single locally owned store.

Knowing now that street dates seem to be more of a gentlemen's agreement than anything else, combined with the lack of any evidence of anyone ever getting in trouble for it (not including a store like Target fining it's own stores), there's no reason to debate it anymore.

I do, however, disagree with the second part. Setting your own prices is certainly fine, as its up to the customers to decide whether they want to buy. Set too high, and you might price yourself out of business. Set too low...and you might price yourself out of business.

The difference is when you are the only option in town, and decide to inflate the price simply because there is no other option. If this store were selling LBP for $75 on Oct 27th, I wouldn't care. I only care now because he is taking advantage of being the only place in town that sells the game, because all other stores were waiting for the street date (or now, in this particular case, they probably sent their copies back to Sony).

Of course, if he's under no obligation or agreement to wait until the 27th, then I suppose he is doing nothing wrong. Although I assume his store would still be responsible for sending the discs back, due to the recall.


Anyhow, to the both of you, it's been fun. I'm off to Wal-Mart, so consider this my closing statement. No ill-will to either, just some fun arguing to pass the time until midnight.

[pmac]

Originally Posted by toefer

What's the matter? Are my posts so bad now that they can't even be quoted anymore?

FUNNY!

TTYL.

[Zipzap713]

Just reserved me copy of LBP and snagged the Kratos code.
I don't mind that its been delayed 2 weeks. I'm extremly busy the next few weeks anyway. Still can't wait to play it though

[jamclaur]

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

Too late.

http://blogciety.com/2008/10/little-...level-created/

I don't see what the big deal is. It's in poor taste. But it's not a big deal.

[jamclaur]

WHO CARES IF YOU DON'T BUY EARLY OR AGREE??? This isn't the place for it.

and FYI: I would have bought it too. Eff certain "rules." Rules are also in place to CONTROL people. Not ALL rules are for your protection.

[BlackMamba]

Hey guys, I'm actually stuck in the game! It's World 4 (Mexico - The Mines [level 2]) - anyone have a strategy guide? There's this portion where you have to manuever on turnstile-esque balls across hot coals down a vertical drop near the end (I think). I cannot see a way to do this - my friend and I tried about 8 times yesterday (co-op is awesome btw - although it does make some things harder due to the camera only being able to zoom out so far, but it does make other things easier + you can get the Sackboy x 2 items)!

The deal with LBP is you essentially get 4 "continues" from your most recent checkpoint (continues do not carry over) - if those go, then you have to restart the level over (although you keep all the items/stickers/costumes/decorations so you don't need to collect them again towards your completion percentage).

And sorry to cause such an argument about the whole breaking of street date things. I like it but I understand that there's another side to the issue.

[air_max]

if i got my hands on a LBP game right now, id totally hit ebay up with that. you know people would easily spend over $100 for it. it sucks, but i can wait an extra week, especially if im putting in $50 or more in my pocket

and if you think thats wrong, im simply playing the market with supply and demand. its completely ethical within a market economy. demand and supply control price FTW

[caliblue15]

http://cgi.ebay.com/LittleBigPlanet-...d=p3286.c0.m14

[BojTrek]

I am lazy and do not want to read previous posts...

Is it delayed for sure?

Will LBP be released this Tuesday?

Thanks in advance...

[Seeking_Alpha]

Toefer, I didn't quote so that it doesn't look long

I guess our disagreement lies in the fact that I don't think breaking street dates and charging customers more for that service is unethical. I think that is just another way to compete among a sea of competitors.

I also don't think that the duopoly analogy is valid as that kind of situation will absolutely guarantee that kind of ("unethical"), cut each other's throats, behavior. Think of all the duopolies past and present.